20517 replies to this topic

[SuperFunkTron]

Sereglach, on 28 August 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

1. It's FUGLY. Regardless of likely MWO hitboxes, just the drab and blocky aesthetics are very unappealing. Granted, we'd need to see what Alex does with it, but it's always been a mech whose looks I hate and I'm sure it'll stay that way no matter how much Alex dresses it up (not unlike what I think of other mechs in MWO).

I was under the impression that the art direction for the IS was more blocky than the Clans. Based on what I recall from MW:4, the Hellspawn would fit in well aesthetically. It's angular, humanoid, and looks vaguely like an Orion and Dragon had a child with its missile points pushed outside.

It'll be just as ugly as many other IS mechs, but isn't that what gives them their pug-like charm? (For clarity, I mean the dog, not players).

[FLG 01]

SuperFunkTron, on 29 August 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

I was under the impression that the art direction for the IS was more blocky than the Clans.

Only if you go by MW:4. But you have to keep in mind those Mechs were designed under the influence of the late 90ies aesthetics while considering the (very limited) 3D-performance of common home computers in the year 2000. Of course they end up blocky, drab, and angular.

But let's fall into the trap that there'd be a corporate IS design or something. IS in MWO is a TechBase first and foremost, and as far as the actual Inner Sphere is concerned there is a huge diversity in design philosophies and aesthetics. Why would a Capellan engineer tasked with designing a Xin Sheng-themed Mech come up with a Mech that looks similar to a Lyran engineer's design who has a completely different cultural background?
Sure there is the common SL-history, and tactical and technological necessities have to be considered. So some similiarities are to be expected. But the very same is true for the Clans.

The BattleTech universe is big and rich.

Edited by FLG 01, 29 August 2017 - 10:56 AM.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 28 August 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Personally I think it is more interesting that the addition of this Mech would serve to illustrate the diversity of the BattleTech universe. I am not a fan of the Capellans but they developed some fine Mechs during the 50ies and 60ies, and it would be a shame to ignore them.
(And we got a lot of FedCom Mechs recently. But there are also the Kapteyn powers, the Periphery powers, and - of course - ComStar and WoB).

Moreover the Sha Yu would be quite good. Not a game changer, but nice enough. And indefinitely superior to, say, a Chimera...
Also I really liked the Mech when I first saw it:





I hope so but I would say it is "sure", especially if the next IS medium is indeed the Hellspawn.

While we're here, the Lao Hu behind the Sha Yu is also a pretty good mech.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lao_Hu

Lacks variety sadly.

[Pariah Devalis]

TheArisen, on 29 August 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

While we're here, the Lao Hu behind the Sha Yu is also a pretty good mech.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lao_Hu

Lacks variety sadly.

The Thunder it is based off of doesn't seem terrible, either, but TSM....

[FLG 01]

Both Lao Hu and Thunder are Mechs I would like to play, fast with a big cannon in the arms. Wonderful glass cannon builds... (Also I like the morion type helmet, and the Thunder looks like it has one).

To be honest, even though I generally prefer medium Mechs I think the IS medium weight class is rather well saturated, and the others would benefit more from new additions. I know we have a lot of heavies already but I think there are many more which would be good for the game.

But then, I may be biased for almost all my favourite medium Mechs are in game, while many of my favourite heavy and assault Mechs are missing... We are all biased somehow.

Edited by FLG 01, 29 August 2017 - 06:05 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 August 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

The Thunder it is based off of doesn't seem terrible, either, but TSM....

And split-crit big gun. Autofail for PGI.

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 29 August 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

To be honest, even though I generally prefer medium Mechs I think the IS medium weight class is rather well saturated, and the others would benefit more from new additions. I know we have a lot of heavies already but I think there are many more which would be good for the game.

This I have to at least partly disagree with. For the IS, I'd say the 50 ton (6 chassis) and 55 ton (5 chassis) brackets are fairly well stocked for the time being. However, I'd say the 40 tonners, which only have 2 options, needs more options; and the 45 ton bracket, with 3 options, could use a couple more as well. Of course, PGI makes their money off of mechs, so this will inevitably change and we will inevitably get more chassis in every tonnage bracket eventually.

FLG 01, on 29 August 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

But then, I may be biased for almost all my favourite medium Mechs are in game, while many of my favourite heavy and assault Mechs are missing... We are all biased somehow.

Agreed, unfortunately my bias seems to sit with the much lighter weight classes and brackets, which -overall- are very lacking in MWO compared to their heavier counterparts.

[Karl Streiger]

Sereglach, on 29 August 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

This I have to at least partly disagree with. For the IS, I'd say the 50 ton (6 chassis) and 55 ton (5 chassis) brackets are fairly well stocked for the time being. However, I'd say the 40 tonners, which only have 2 options, needs more options; and the 45 ton bracket, with 3 options, could use a couple more as well. Of course, PGI makes their money off of mechs, so this will inevitably change and we will inevitably get more chassis in every tonnage bracket eventually.

Why do we need more options in the 40 and 45t bracket? No matter the design it will be flawed by the game design.
For QP (if truelance is still a thing) you end at "to slow" and "to fat" light with not enough fire power (ok not true thanks to game design - boating SRMs or Medium Laser is overpowered -not global but in terms of what they are supposed to do)

for FW if this dead game mode is a valid consideration - 40 and 45t can fill gaps but as stopgap the BlackJack or PhoenixHawk or Cicada are good enough.

When I think of all the Mechs in the game
i can only think of 2 IS Mech Rolls Mechs not in the game

- a Heavy capable of AC20 in the arm
- a fast jump capable Heavy in the "a heavy not a fat medium"
(maybe the dual ballistic assault have some shortages)

for clans there is afaik none

So the only real reason for a new Mechs is - "Because I want to ride one"

The more I think about it the need for new Mechs would need a complete overhaul of the underlying game mechanic and logic.

[Thorn Hallis]

I really can't fathom why people are voting for the Hellspawn or Chimera. It can't be nostalgia, coz both 'Mechs were allready shice in MW4.

[Tarogato]

Thorn Hallis, on 30 August 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

I really can't fathom why people are voting for the Hellspawn or Chimera. It can't be nostalgia, coz both 'Mechs were allready shice in MW4.

They both have very unique and asymmetric aesthetics.

[Odanan]

Thorn Hallis, on 30 August 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

I really can't fathom why people are voting for the Hellspawn or Chimera. It can't be nostalgia, coz both 'Mechs were allready shice in MW4.

These are the mechs people know.

The old TT crowd got most classic 3025 mechs (a lot of them), the MW2/MW3 crowd got most of their mechs, I guess it's time for the MW4 (and MWLL) crowd now.

And I say: let them get their mechs! There aren't many more, anyway: Chimera, Hellspawn, Argus and Fafnir (I'm leaving the IS omnis out). Most likely Blood Asp too (and maybe Black Lanner), from Living Legends.

After these, PGI can focus on stuff that never featured in any videogame. Here comes such as Gunslinger, Sagittaire and other "instant classics".

Come on, guys. It's just half a year of mechs. Think of the joy the MW4 fans will have to seat once more in the cockpit of their favorite designs. (and the joy you will have seeing they piloting sub-par mechs)

[Karl Streiger]

People loved to ride the Chimera?
Maybe there are also people who liked to run the Strider or the Avatar back in MW3?
People need to realize that this is MWO.... what worked in MW3 or MW4 will not work here for a couple of reasons

I can take the Uziel as an example - i loved this mech in MW4 - 2 (c)ERPPC the rest was armor and heatsinks (not enough for multiplayer game however)- the same build in TT does not work, and it would not work in MWO

Reasons: Side Torso XL Bomb, even when you circumvent this you have the arms falling when your ST is gone, so the same Mech in MW4 was faster, tougher and was not prone to overheating so much

The same would happen to Chimera and Hellspawn

[Juodas Varnas]

Honestly, the only mech from MW4 i'd be interested in would be the Argus.

I just want the rest of the OG 3025 mech cast, Dervishes, Vulcans, Clints, etc. (also quads, but that's besides the point)

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 30 August 2017 - 04:11 AM.

[FLG 01]

Sereglach, on 29 August 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

This I have to at least partly disagree with. For the IS, I'd say the 50 ton (6 chassis) and 55 ton (5 chassis) brackets are fairly well stocked for the time being. However, I'd say the 40 tonners, which only have 2 options, needs more options; and the 45 ton bracket, with 3 options, could use a couple more as well.

I don't mean the raw numbers, as they can be deceiving. There is a lot of dead weight in the 55 and 55 ton range (Wolverine, Trebuchet, Uziel...) and good additions would be easily possible: Men Shen, Lynx, Lightray, Cronus...

And while there are only two 40 ton Mechs those two are good for what they are. Even the Sha Yu would be a rather small improvement, probably more of a sidegrade; and the Chimera would be a straight downgrade. Same with the 45 ton Mechs. I don't see much of an addition possible in this department. Perhaps the Firestarter Omni, perhaps the Stealth or the Bloodhound, but nothing super exiting.

Odanan, on 30 August 2017 - 03:53 AM, said:

The old TT crowd got most classic 3025 mechs (a lot of them), the MW2/MW3 crowd got most of their mechs, I guess it's time for the MW4 (and MWLL) crowd now.

You sound as if this did not happen. It does happen. A lot. You must have noticed they are getting their Mechs left, right and center now. If the next Mech is indeed the Hellspawn, we are talking about eight MW:4 Mechs that have been announced or released since the new Tech-patch. Both in terms of absolute numbers and percentages (80%) that is a lot. Really, a lot.

And that's fine with me, as long as the Mechs in question are important in the lore (using the rich BattleTech universe) and/or add something to the game (to be useful in a P2P evironment). But if none of this is true, we are dealing with a bad Mech, and MW:4 does nothing at all to help it. See Uziel.

Edited by FLG 01, 30 August 2017 - 06:52 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Odanan, on 30 August 2017 - 03:53 AM, said:

The old TT crowd got most classic 3025 mechs (a lot of them), the MW2/MW3 crowd got most of their mechs, I guess it's time for the MW4 (and MWLL) crowd now.

The Warhammer IIC and Rifleman IIC was a majority of my experience of Mechwarrior 2 and Mechwarrior 2 Ghost Bear's Legacy. And yet we still don't have them in game.

IMO, they should have went with the Rifleman IIC back in march since there are so many different incarnations of that mech. It would have been less ammo for HG to legitimately use against them since PGI can use other art sources. A Warhammer is going to look like a Warhammer. A Marauder is going to look like a Marauder (even though imo the classic unseen looks drastically different from the reseen). The IS Rifleman looks nothing like the Rifleman IIC, and more so the MW:O IS Rifleman vs the Rick Harris artwork depiction (which is what I would assume it would look like in game).

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 30 August 2017 - 07:39 AM.

[Ovion]

Arnold The Governator, on 30 August 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

IMO, they should have went with the Rifleman IIC back in march since there are so many different incarnations of that mech. It would have been less ammo for HG to legitimately use against them since PGI can use other art sources.

This implies there is any legitimacy to Harmony Golds actions, which there is not.
At all.

[Odanan]

FLG 01, on 30 August 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

You sound as if this did not happen. It does happen. A lot. You must have noticed they are getting their Mechs left, right and center now. If the next Mech is indeed the Hellspawn, we are talking about eight MW:4 Mechs that have been announced or released since the new Tech-patch. Both in terms of absolute numbers and percentages (80%) that is a lot. Really, a lot.

Wasn't the Clan Invasion 100% MW2 mechs? (OK, the Adder was not in that game)

Anyway, there were only 6 MW4 mechs released: Uziel, Cougar, Mad Cat MKII, Osiris, Nova Cat and Thanatos. Hellspawn is certainly next, but after that, there will be 2 non-MW4 Clan mechs*. I see IS drinking in the MW4 well next (with the Fafnir, Argus, and in 2018 the Chimera and some omni), but that's pretty much it.

*Hellhound would be a cool medium addition for the Clans, but they need to conciliate MW4 design with the lore (the official Conjurer, AKA Wolverine IIC, by itself is very bland).

FLG 01, on 30 August 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

And that's fine with me, as long as the Mechs in question are important in the lore (using the rich BattleTech universe) and/or add something to the game (to be useful in a P2P evironment). But if none of this is true, we are dealing with a bad Mech, and MW:4 does nothing at all to help it. See Uziel.

Now I will need to buy an Uziel as soon as it's released for C-Bills so I can make it work.

Ovion, on 30 August 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

This implies there is any legitimacy to Harmony Golds actions, which there is not.
At all.

We all hope HG will be ultimately destroyed by this last lawsuit.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 30 August 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

*Hellhound would be a cool medium addition for the Clans, but they need to conciliate MW4 design with the lore (the official Conjurer, AKA Wolverine IIC, by itself is very bland).

The easiest way to do it, is should the Wolverine IIC Conjurer ever be released use the call letters "CJR" for it, for the Hellhound (the MW4 unit) use the call letters "HHD" for it. Lore wise, they could say "After the staggering losses suffered in the refusal war as well as the following sundering of Clan Wolf, the Crusader Wolves developed a new battlemech to meet the needs of their garrison forces to combat Inner Sphere insurgences, naming the new mech 'Hell Hound' it has....."

[Adridos]

Arnold The Governator, on 30 August 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

IMO, they should have went with the Rifleman IIC back in march since there are so many different incarnations of that mech. It would have been less ammo for HG to legitimately use against them since PGI can use other art sources. A Warhammer is going to look like a Warhammer. A Marauder is going to look like a Marauder (even though imo the classic unseen looks drastically different from the reseen). The IS Rifleman looks nothing like the Rifleman IIC, and more so the MW:O IS Rifleman vs the Rick Harris artwork depiction (which is what I would assume it would look like in game).

If you look into the case Harmony Gold, to their credit, hasn't attacked the IIC machines. They never have.

The designs were done by Japanese to make the port of Mechwarrior 1 look consistent. Separate IP called for separate designs, not an anime zoo that Battletech was at the time. Plus, they didn't have rights to any of the shows.
Still, those mechs are those mechs. The fact FASA renamed them doesn't change that they are only better drawn versions of the underlying designs and all derived from the original machines that HG is so uppity about.

Edited by Adridos, 30 August 2017 - 08:49 AM.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 30 August 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

Lore wise, they could say "After the staggering losses suffered in the refusal war, the Clan Jade Falcon retooled the occupied factories in Inner Sphere to meet the needs of their garrison forces to combat Inner Sphere insurgences, naming the new mech 'Hellhound'. This version of the inexpensive Conjurer kept the same engine and weapons, but was produced in a chassis and parts compatible with the newer Black Lanner omnimech."

FTFY