20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 07 November 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

Spreadsheet format to make things easier:

Thanks!

Can you do the same for the Hellion?

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 07 November 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Am I missing something?

Well there are some other light Clan Mechs in the FCCW-era, if that's what you mean. Horned Owl, Howler, Mandrill, Ice Storm, Spirit, Pack Hunter, Incubus... Some of them are good, some of them not so much. And we probably can exclude the 35t options since the Clans have three 35 tonners already.

The Incubus and the Solitaire are my favourite options
http://www.sarna.net...Incubus_(Vixen)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire
I like the Solitaire a bit more, and its 25t would be better for the MWO Clan Mech line-up, but it has a lack of variants.

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 07 November 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

Thanks!

Can you do the same for the Hellion?

If MWO had AP Gauss Rifles we'd be able to get several more variants...

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 07 November 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

If MWO had AP Gauss Rifles we'd be able to get several more variants...

Nice!

And dang, the ECM is in a AP Gauss variant.

PS: your spreadsheets could use the "max speed" info.

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 07 November 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

Nice!

And dang, the ECM is in a AP Gauss variant.

PS: your spreadsheets could use the "max speed" info.

I guess it's one of those things I take for granted since we can generally figure that out just by opening Smurfy and sticking the corresponding engine into a mech of that tonnage. For MASC mechs I'd understand though since we don't have many of those.

For the Hellion...
Untweaked w/ MASC: 136.1
Tweaked w/ MASC: 144.6

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 07 November 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

...

BTW, do you have the next Clan assault mech Blood Asp spreadsheet around there?

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 08 November 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

BTW, do you have the next Clan assault mech Blood Asp spreadsheet around there?

Yes, but I really need to update it.

I'll post a fixed version later tonight.

EDIT: Here she is:

Edited by FupDup, 08 November 2017 - 06:43 PM.

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 08 November 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

Yes, but I really need to update it.

I'll post a fixed version later tonight.

EDIT: Here she is:

That mech is a beast!

[Gasoline]

Odanan, on 09 November 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

That mech is a beast!

Yes... And it's a real match for the Mad Cat Mk. II. Most ballistics in the side torsos high mounted. Also it carries standard armor, so not as much slot limitation as other omnis. You miss out on the JJs if you want the torso ballistics, but I guess the formidable mounts make more than up for that.

It's a Star Adder mech, so it even fills a niche. Star Adder has only the Adder and Marauder IIC going for them yet.

Also what about more totem mechs?

We have:

Clan:
Arctic Wolf (Wolf-in-Exile)
Black Lanner (Jade Falcon)
Ebon Jaguar (Smoke Jaguar)
Kodiak (Ghost Bear)
Nova Cat (Nova Cat)
Shadow Cat (Nova Cat)

IS:
<none>

Available are:

Clan:
Battle Cobra (Steel Viper)
Blood Kite (Blood Spirit)
Fire Scorpion (Goliath Scorpion) <quad>
Grizzly (Ghost Bear)
Hellion (Ice Hellion)
Mandrill (Fire Mandrill) <semi quad> <first totem mech>
Scylla (Steel Viper)
Thunder Stallion (Hell's Horses) <quad>
Turkina (Jade Falcon)

IS:
Hatamoto-Chi (Draconis Combine)
Yu Huang (Capellan Confederation)

Edited by Gasoline, 09 November 2017 - 04:20 AM.

[TheArisen]

Gasoline, on 09 November 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

Yes... And it's a real match for the Mad Cat Mk. II. Most ballistics in the side torsos high mounted. Also it carries standard armor, so not as much slot limitation as other omnis. You miss out on the JJs if you want the torso ballistics, but I guess the formidable mounts make more than up for that.

It's a Star Adder mech, so it even fills a niche. Star Adder has only the Adder and Marauder IIC going for them yet.

Also what about more totem mechs?

We have:

Clan:
Arctic Wolf (Wolf-in-Exile)
Black Lanner (Jade Falcon)
Ebon Jaguar (Smoke Jaguar)
Kodiak (Ghost Bear)
Nova Cat (Nova Cat)
Shadow Cat (Nova Cat)

IS:
&lt;none&gt;

Available are:

Clan:
Battle Cobra (Steel Viper)
Blood Kite (Blood Spirit)
Fire Scorpion (Goliath Scorpion) &lt;quad&gt;
Grizzly (Ghost Bear)
Hellion (Ice Hellion)
Mandrill (Fire Mandrill) &lt;semi quad&gt; &lt;first totem mech&gt;
Scylla (Steel Viper)
Thunder Stallion (Hell's Horses) &lt;quad&gt;
Turkina (Jade Falcon)

IS:
Hatamoto-Chi (Draconis Combine)
Yu Huang (Capellan Confederation)

The A ct has both ecm & jj so you can have the high ballistics as well as ecm & jj.

[Odanan]

Gasoline, on 09 November 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

Clan:
Battle Cobra (Steel Viper)
Blood Kite (Blood Spirit)
Fire Scorpion (Goliath Scorpion) <quad>
Grizzly (Ghost Bear)
Hellion (Ice Hellion)
Mandrill (Fire Mandrill) <semi quad> <first totem mech>
Scylla (Steel Viper)
Thunder Stallion (Hell's Horses) <quad>
Turkina (Jade Falcon)

Most of those Totem mechs are not very good or wouldn't add much to the game. Heck, most of them are not even iconic or well known to justify their inclusion. Unless MWO lives on many many more years, I don't see a lot of those being released.

The most likely of the list is the Hellion. Turkina and Grizzly come very far behind.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

FupDup, on 08 November 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

Is there a MWO rendering/artwork of that lovely brute? ^^

[FupDup]

Scrawny Cowboy, on 09 November 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Is there a MWO rendering/artwork of that lovely brute? ^^

No. Some artwork from TT and previous MW games include:

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 09 November 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

No. Some artwork from TT and previous MW games include:

Now these are some insane Gauss ballistics high mounts...

There is no doubt this is the next Clan assault mech - probably even the next Clan mech (to be announced in February?).

Since it looks like MWO is diving into the MW:LL mechs, here is what we can expect:

• Owens: popular (was in MW3, MW4 and MW:LL), but only viable if PGI changes the hardwired single heat sinks into DHS. It's also an IS omnimech.
  
• Solitaire: kind of similar to the Piranha, and will need at least 4 made-up variants.
  
• Hollander II: basically a 5 ton lighter (and jumping) Hunchback, but quite popular (also because of MechCommander).
  
• Chimera: next IS medium mech? (was in MW4).
  
• Avatar: maybe when the IS omnis debut in MWO (was in MW3 and MW4)
  
• Argus: next IS heavy mech (was in MW4).
  
• Fafnir: next IS assault mech (was in MW4).
  
• Blood Asp: next Clan assault mech.

What if PGI planned since the beginning to absorb into MWO all mechs from all Mechwarrior games? Huge, isn't? (and we are almost there)

PS: there are some less known and relevant remaining mechs in MW2:M, but I think we can live without them.

Edited by Odanan, 10 November 2017 - 02:16 AM.

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 10 November 2017 - 02:03 AM, said:

Since it looks like MWO is diving into the MW:LL mechs, here is what we can expect:

• Owens: popular (was in MW3, MW4 and MW:LL), but only viable if PGI changes the hardwired single heat sinks into DHS. It's also an IS omnimech.

IMO the whole IS Omnimech process would be a lot easier if PGI made up their own "Mk. 2" versions of certain units that had irredeemably bad base chassis like the Owens and Strider. Then they don't have to worry about opening the "Pandora's Box" of allowing all Omnis to modify their base chassis, and it's not like they haven't made non-canon mechs before (Roughneck, who knows how many variants by this point).

[Gasoline]

Odanan, on 10 November 2017 - 02:03 AM, said:

Now these are some insane Gauss ballistics high mounts...

There is no doubt this is the next Clan assault mech - probably even the next Clan mech (to be announced in February?).

Since it looks like MWO is diving into the MW:LL mechs, here is what we can expect:

• Owens: popular (was in MW3, MW4 and MW:LL), but only viable if PGI changes the hardwired single heat sinks into DHS. It's also an IS omnimech.
  
• Solitaire: kind of similar to the Piranha, and will need at least 4 made-up variants.
  
• Hollander II: basically a 5 ton lighter (and jumping) Hunchback, but quite popular (also because of MechCommander).
  
• Chimera: next IS medium mech? (was in MW4).
  
• Avatar: maybe when the IS omnis debut in MWO (was in MW3 and MW4)
  
• Argus: next IS heavy mech (was in MW4).
  
• Fafnir: next IS assault mech (was in MW4).
  
• Blood Asp: next Clan assault mech.

What if PGI planned since the beginning to absorb into MWO all mechs from all Mechwarrior games? Huge, isn't? (and we are almost there)


PS: there are some less known and relevant remaining mechs in MW2:M, but I think we can live without them.

Well... the Owens can be worked even with SHS if PGI would finally fix their heat system in general. I remember playing my first Commando 2D (back in the days it had the 195 engine cap and no ECM) with SHS and it worked. For the heck you can even work the Supernova with SHS (4HLL, 39 SHS).

The Solitaire is a powerhouse in Battletech, but an oven in MWO. The -2 would again suffer from hit detection issues due to the excess speed of 200 kph. I would actually need that mech for my Wolf-in-Exile roster, but it won't happen anytime soon. It's basically this without jump jets and a larger engine (just switch the hardpoints around a bit). Heat management is the same (and yes, that looks actually a lot better than it feels in game).

I'm not really sure what people like so much about the Hollander, but meh... Didn't like it in MechCommander, probably wouldn't like it here either.

Chimera... have to actually calculate the pod space of that thing with a light engine. The XL is a deathtrap with the large missile pod on the shoulder. Volumetric scaling might even save this mech, as it will be hardly any larger than the Arctic Wolf.

The problem of the Avatar is standard armor and standard chassis on an omnimech. Lots of space, but a lack of weight to work with. Little bit on the slow end... same speed as the Nova Cat, but not the same punch. Might work tho as the hardpoints seem to be just slightly lower than cockpit level.

The Argus I'm really interested in... The hitboxes might be either great or bad. But it might be a 60t Bushwacker. Considering it's designed for being a close combat brawler, it might even get armor quirks. I see this as the strongest contender of the next IS heavy.

Fafnir... I know people love it as it's basically the mech-made incarnation of the Heavy Gauss Rifle, but I can also see it fail horrendously because of the huge side torsos. I know Steiner has a lack of good scouting mechs, but it needs some serious making up in terms of variants.

The Blood Asp I agree will probably be the next clan assault... also due to a lack of valid alternatives. Could also be the Warhammer IIC, but I doubt it as it would again heavily promote laser vomit and half the variants are not even available due to a lack of HAG (omg it rhymes... ), Plasma Cannons and Clan Rotary tech.

Also, we need the Imp! 100 tons of pure urbie goodness. Hero mech: Big Brother.

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 10 November 2017 - 02:03 AM, said:

What if PGI planned since the beginning to absorb into MWO all mechs from all Mechwarrior games? Huge, isn't? (and we are almost there)

Hugely boring, that is. It's uninspired, unnecessarily reducing a rich source material (BT) to its derivatives (MW), and in many cases unfriendly to the lore. The fact that it more often than not produces superfluous (Osiris) or downright bad Mechs (Uziel) especially on the IS side is yet another reason why this is bad practice.

The Avatar would just continue this bad way. There is a reason why nobody uses an XL 280
on the Warhammer, and that's because it is suicide. There is also a reason why nobody equipps the FS9-H with a GR to copy the Hollander 100%, and that's because it just fails in the field. Etc.
Previous 'fame' did not help the Uziel, it won't help those Mechs. No thanks.

[Brain Cancer]

FupDup, on 10 November 2017 - 04:08 AM, said:

IMO the whole IS Omnimech process would be a lot easier if PGI made up their own "Mk. 2" versions of certain units that had irredeemably bad base chassis like the Owens and Strider. Then they don't have to worry about opening the "Pandora's Box" of allowing all Omnis to modify their base chassis, and it's not like they haven't made non-canon mechs before (Roughneck, who knows how many variants by this point).

Note that those variants also get to be fed back into the TT as canonical variations at some point, because PGI's stats can be reasonably translated back into standard construction. At this point, you could fill a TRO with the Roughneck and various -P's, assuming Catalyst gets off it's rear and generates the effort to do so between waffling about the ilClan books.

[Requiemking]

Brain Cancer, on 10 November 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Note that those variants also get to be fed back into the TT as canonical variations at some point, because PGI's stats can be reasonably translated back into standard construction. At this point, you could fill a TRO with the Roughneck and various -P's, assuming Catalyst gets off it's rear and generates the effort to do so between waffling about the ilClan books.

Well, the Roughneck actually makes sense in the context of lore, seeing as the IS was getting steamrolled by Clans and in desperate need of mechs. As for the P variants, most of the IS P variants make sense as merc variants, while the Shadowcat P would actually be a pretty terrifying unit, as it would be able to stay out of most mech's range and hammer them with a Clan Gauss, but swarming it with infantry is a bad idea because of the six MGs.

[Odanan]

Requiemking, on 10 November 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

Well, the Roughneck actually makes sense in the context of lore, seeing as the IS was getting steamrolled by Clans and in desperate need of mechs. As for the P variants, most of the IS P variants make sense as merc variants, while the Shadowcat P would actually be a pretty terrifying unit, as it would be able to stay out of most mech's range and hammer them with a Clan Gauss, but swarming it with infantry is a bad idea because of the six MGs.

Indeed. Most P variants would actually be welcomed in TT.

But the Shadowcat P... it only makes sense with that "full auto" machinegun rule that builds heat, because (like the awfully optimized Mad Dog C) it only has weapons with no heat, effectively wasting those 10 DHS.