20517 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Metus regem, on 29 March 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yup... and they all claim that if it comes with God Quirks it'll be good... I see the issue with it needing god quirks in the first place to be viable... Can you imagine how well the Annihilator would be doing if they stripped the quirks it has to the level that the Atlas has? I bet my mech collection it would vanish from the field over night.

Yeah seriously. Haha there was someone here on the forums that was all "I knew the Annihilator would be good but everyone said it'd be junk!" hahaha.

[FLG 01]

Metus regem, on 29 March 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

Can you imagine how well the Annihilator would be doing if they stripped the quirks it has to the level that the Atlas has? I bet my mech collection it would vanish from the field over night.

And let's not forget the engine cap is a god quirk, too. I doubt many would use it with the regular engine cap of 240, even if it retained its other (ridiculously powerful) quirks.

TheArisen, on 29 March 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

Yeah seriously. Haha there was someone here on the forums that was all "I knew the Annihilator would be good but everyone said it'd be junk!" hahaha.

At present the Mech is extremely powerful. But, indeed, only a fraction of that power comes from the canon design.

[Odanan]

FLG 01, on 29 March 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

At present the Mech is extremely powerful. But, indeed, only a fraction of that power comes from the canon design.

And there is no problem with that. The moment you can customize your mech, the canon designs have no meaning (unless quirks were heavily based on the canon weapons).

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 29 March 2018 - 04:53 PM, said:

And there is no problem with that. The moment you can customize your mech, the canon designs have no meaning (unless quirks were heavily based on the canon weapons).

That's not what I mean. I am mostly refering to the canon speed, and the regular MWO engine cap resulting from that speed. In MWO however the Annihilator is not only much faster than in canon, it is also faster than regular customization (engine cap) usually allow. This god tier quirk, coupled with other extremely powerful quirks, makes the Mech useful.
Again: how many people would use an Annihilator if it had the regular 240 max engine and Nightstar-level quirks? If that were the case, all the customization in the world would not help this Mech.

[Sereglach]

TheArisen, on 29 March 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

Yeah seriously. Haha there was someone here on the forums that was all "I knew the Annihilator would be good but everyone said it'd be junk!" hahaha.

I think it's also worth noting on that front that, pre-Annihilator announcement, there was also a great deal of speculation on how it could be done up art-wise. The fact that we got the Annihilator with the giraffe neck (some drawings have little-to-no neck), the huge beer-belly (some, particularly the CCG, have a slimmer profile), and extremely long arms (some are more snub-barrel than others) did the mech no favors.

Plenty said it'd provide needed hardpoint configurations (I agree there), but there was a great deal of debate on how viable it'd be based on engine caps and artwork/hitboxes. I'll admit that I was one of those people who really wanted to see what Alex could do with the Annihilator, but realized on announcement that it'd need serious quirks to save it.

Regardless, at least one way or another they're running out of MW4 mechs, so we should have an opportunity to see other chassis, soon. Being one of the last MW4 inclusions remaining, I think the Flea will be solid . . . good quirks could make it a pretty tanky 20-tonner to more drastically differentiate it from the Locust, but I don't think they're necessary for it to be reasonably viable for at least PUG-fun. For the future, here's hoping for a Mongoose, or other classics if certain legal matters are resolved.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 29 March 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

Regardless, at least one way or another they're running out of MW4 mechs, so we should have an opportunity to see other chassis, soon.

Indeed. Of the (original) MW4(M) mechs, only the Argus is a solid choice:

• Chimera (unwanted mech)
  
• Hellhound (conflict between the MW4 and the TT design)
  
• Argus
  
• Longbow (Macross Unseen)
  
• Templar (bad IS omni)
  
• Sunder (really bad IS omni)
  
• Hauptmann (really bad IS omni)

But if you look the MekTek/Mech packs mechs, there are others:

• Brigand
  
• Avatar (probably bad IS omni)
  
• Canis (very unknown mech)
  
• Duan Gung (a deformed baby of the Mist Linx with Commando)
  
• Fire Moth (would need a fix because of the speed problem)
  
• Grim Reaper (unknown mech)
  
• Grizzly (a classic from MW2, but not really wanted)
  
• Hollander (this is a very asked mech, even if it will probably suck)
  
• Locust IIC
  
• Razorback
  
• Solitaire
  
• Thug (brings nothing really new)
  
• UrbanMech IIC (I know... I know...)
  
• Ursus (unknown, but looks good)
  
• Wasp (Macross Unseen)
  
• Yeoman (LOL)

But I was forgetting a very, very likely candidate for next mech: the Fire Falcon.
It didn't feature any MW game yet, but it's a very solid 25 tons Clan omni platform.

If the mech announced in 2 days is a Clan Light Mech (like 50% chance), I bet it's the

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 30 March 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

Indeed. Of the (original) MW4(M) mechs, only the Argus is a solid choice:

• Templar (bad IS omni)
  
• Sunder (really bad IS omni)
  
• Hauptmann (really bad IS omni)

Odanan, on 30 March 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

But I was forgetting a very, very likely candidate for next mech: the Fire Falcon.

It didn't feature any MW game yet, but it's a very solid 25 tons Clan omni platform.

If the mech announced in 2 days is a Clan Light Mech (like 50% chance), I bet it's the

Spoiler

That's more like it

[TheArisen]

Odanan, on 30 March 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

Indeed. Of the (original) MW4(M) mechs, only the Argus is a solid choice:

• Chimera (unwanted mech)
  
• Hellhound (conflict between the MW4 and the TT design)
  
• Argus
  
• Longbow (Macross Unseen)
  
• Templar (bad IS omni)
  
• Sunder (really bad IS omni)
  
• Hauptmann (really bad IS omni)

But if you look the MekTek/Mech packs mechs, there are others:

• Brigand
  
• Avatar (probably bad IS omni)
  
• Canis (very unknown mech)
  
• Duan Gung (a deformed baby of the Mist Linx with Commando)
  
• Fire Moth (would need a fix because of the speed problem)
  
• Grim Reaper (unknown mech)
  
• Grizzly (a classic from MW2, but not really wanted)
  
• Hollander (this is a very asked mech, even if it will probably suck)
  
• Locust IIC
  
• Razorback
  
• Solitaire
  
• Thug (brings nothing really new)
  
• UrbanMech IIC (I know... I know...)
  
• Ursus (unknown, but looks good)
  
• Wasp (Macross Unseen)
  
• Yeoman (LOL)

But I was forgetting a very, very likely candidate for next mech: the Fire Falcon.
It didn't feature any MW game yet, but it's a very solid 25 tons Clan omni platform.

If the mech announced in 2 days is a Clan Light Mech (like 50% chance), I bet it's the

How interesting that you say the Avatar is only "probably" bad but state the Sunder, Hauptmann & Templar are just bad.

The Avatar will be bad, no maybe about it (unless substantially quirked but that's not a stable thing). The Sunder has the most potential imo due to it's balance of mobility, hardpoints and tonnage/crit space (admitadly I'm a Wubshee driver so it's right up my alley). The Templar does lack high mounts for the most part and crit space (If they removed FF that'd be great) but it still has great mobility and dmg spreading potential as well as some good hardpoints. Hauptmann I'm inclined to agree will only ever be mediocre at best

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 30 March 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:

How interesting that you say the Avatar is only "probably" bad but state the Sunder, Hauptmann & Templar are just bad.

The Avatar will be bad, no maybe about it (unless substantially quirked but that's not a stable thing). The Sunder has the most potential imo due to it's balance of mobility, hardpoints and tonnage/crit space (admitadly I'm a Wubshee driver so it's right up my alley). The Templar does lack high mounts for the most part and crit space (If they removed FF that'd be great) but it still has great mobility and dmg spreading potential as well as some good hardpoints. Hauptmann I'm inclined to agree will only ever be mediocre at best

Avatar is smaller, so it's harder to pick off those XL side torsos. The speed is not ideal (a little slow for the size), but it's not terrible either.

Sunder is a 90 tons mech with locked XL Engine. That's really bad.

[TheArisen]

Odanan, on 30 March 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

Avatar is smaller, so it's harder to pick off those XL side torsos. The speed is not ideal (a little slow for the size), but it's not terrible either.

Sunder is a 90 tons mech with locked XL Engine. That's really bad.

This whole XL is automatically bad in assaults thing is weird. Sure some can't do it but it shouldn't be a blanket statement. Wubshee & Wubmaster are still good.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 30 March 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

Avatar is smaller, so it's harder to pick off those XL side torsos. The speed is not ideal (a little slow for the size), but it's not terrible either.

Sunder is a 90 tons mech with locked XL Engine. That's really bad.

Odanan the Avatar has large flat ST's that are very easy to pick out in all official art work, it would need both an art overhaul and God quirks to be good...

The Templar does have high mounts, both ST mounts in all official art work are at cockpit height. She also has very large sheild arms... the Templar stands a chance at being okay to good.

[FLG 01]

The Avatar would be the single worst heavy Mech in MWO, unless Annihilor-level quirks save it: the combination of low speed, easy to hit side torsos, and an XL engine make it a deathtrap. It's not any harder to hit than an assault, but brings neither their armour nor their firepower.
I mean, go ahead... take a Warhammer with a 280XL and see what happens. I did it. It's a glass cannon, nice for one or two games, as long as nobody shoots at you.

I am not saying this because I dislike the Avatar. It is an important Mech in the lore, and some configurations are decent in TT too. But I cannot image it works in MWO.

As far as XL engines are concerned, it is always a matter of geometry and engine cap. If geometry and speed are good enough, XLs can be viable even on heavier Mechs. (Despite the rather irrational fear of many to use XLs on IS Mechs). Anyway, the Avatars fulfills none of those requirements.

Edited by FLG 01, 30 March 2018 - 07:01 AM.

[Odanan]

Tomorrow!

[Odanan]

BTW, did you guys see this?

[Tordin]

Featherweight.... Now that makes me think.

It cant mean the lowest weight bracket of lights ( 20 tons), because that would propably include some odd titles for the lowest weight brackets of mediums, heavies etc..

Elementals, protomechs??? Duels with those?? No... cant be

[Adridos]

Tordin, on 01 April 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

Featherweight.... Now that makes me think.

It cant mean the lowest weight bracket of lights ( 20 tons), because that would propably include some odd titles for the lowest weight brackets of mediums, heavies etc..

Elementals, protomechs??? Duels with those?? No... cant be

It's pretty obvious...

Spoiler

Robot girls! Some of them quad legged, some of them LAMs. You know the drill.



Anyway, it's most likely a category for the super low-end of the weight distribution. Mechs like Locust are already only usable because there's bigger fish to fry in a match. Throw them into a duel and they're paste.

Edited by Adridos, 01 April 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[Odanan]

Tordin, on 01 April 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

Featherweight....

Featherweight = light mechs;
Lightweight = medium mechs;
Middleweight = heavy mechs;
Heavyweight = assault mechs.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 01 April 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Featherweight = light mechs;
Lightweight = medium mechs;
Middleweight = heavy mechs;
Heavyweight = assault mechs.

This. It's probably not so much for the "Tiers" that they're putting mechs into, since there's supposed to be 6-7 tiers, but for winning said match in a given weight class, regardless of tier of the fight. They just had to plug the weight classes in a way that matched up with Boxing classes. However, they could have done lightweight up to super-heavyweight and avoided the featherweight . . . but then they'd have a hyphenated title that doesn't mesh with the others.

Edited by Sereglach, 01 April 2018 - 06:46 PM.

[Odanan]

Fire Falcon today?

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 02 April 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

Fire Falcon today?

Maybe, but while we wait...