20517 replies to this topic

[Norris J Packard]

My Atlas already does 62.7 KPH.

[Vincent Lynch]

re the Charger:
1. While the 400 engine is way too heavy, a 400 XL engine will save you 26 tons! Also, it can take 16 DHS.
Which means, as an example: Using a 400XL Engine will enable you to replace the 5 small lasers with 5 medium puls lasers, add an AMS, and 4 tons of extra armor (making it nearly full armored at 14 tons), and still leave you with enough tonnage free to mount 23 DHS in total, of which only 7 have to be outside the engine.
If using heavier energy weapons you can even mount Endosteel! A 1 PPC, 4 M-Pulse, AMS, 14t Armor, Endosteel, 22 DHS build works, with exactly one slot still free! (because the Charger misses one Hand actuator.)
Of course the 400 XL is extraordinarily expensive.
2. The Charger-3K comes with a 400 XL, and also mounts 5 Jump Jets. So you get a Mech that can carry the armor of an Awesome, running as fast as a stock Dragon, and jump like a Jenner.

I still want the Banshee, but only because it looks cooler than the Charger.

[Norris J Packard]

Thontor, on 12 February 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

are we comparing the Atlas to the Cyclops here? The Atlas can't go that fast unless it has a much larger than stock engine And Speed Tweak.

A Cyclops by the same token could go 79.2 kph.

Why would you use anything but a 350 engine in an Atlas? There is no argument that could be supported for making such an error.

Vincent Lynch, on 12 February 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

re the Charger:
1. While the 400 engine is way too heavy, a 400 XL engine will save you 26 tons! Also, it can take 16 DHS.
Which means, as an example: Using a 400XL Engine will enable you to replace the 5 small lasers with 5 medium puls lasers, add an AMS, and 4 tons of extra armor (making it nearly full armored at 14 tons), and still leave you with enough tonnage free to mount 23 DHS in total, of which only 7 have to be outside the engine.
If using heavier energy weapons you can even mount Endosteel! A 1 PPC, 4 M-Pulse, AMS, 14t Armor, Endosteel, 22 DHS build works, with exactly one slot still free! (because the Charger misses one Hand actuator.)
Of course the 400 XL is extraordinarily expensive.
2. The Charger-3K comes with a 400 XL, and also mounts 5 Jump Jets. So you get a Mech that can carry the armor of an Awesome, running as fast as a stock Dragon, and jump like a Jenner.

I still want the Banshee, but only because it looks cooler than the Charger.

Which is a Mech with an Assault sized frame using an XL Engine.

That sure works out great for the Awesome players who do that, oh wait, no what's the other word? Terribly, right? Ya, it works out terribly.

[Lonestar1771]

I only use the stock 300 engine in my atlas builds. Don't need any more get up and go than what it already provides.

[Vincent Lynch]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Which is a Mech with an Assault sized frame using an XL Engine.

That sure works out great for the Awesome players who do that, oh wait, no what's the other word? Terribly, right? Ya, it works out terribly.

Did you ever look at a Charger picture? The side torsos are MUCH smaller. Also, it's more difficult to target specific zones on Mechs which can go 80 kph and more.

[Norris J Packard]

Lonestar1771, on 12 February 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

I only use the stock 300 engine in my atlas builds. Don't need any more get up and go than what it already provides.

You're aware that there are several other advantages (besides KPH) conferred for using larger engines, right?

Vincent Lynch, on 12 February 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Did you ever look at a Charger picture? The side torsos are MUCH smaller. Also, it's more difficult to target specific zones on Mechs which can go 80 kph and more.

You mean the concept art for a Mech that Alex has yet to draw? Specifically one that hasn't been designed and implemented into the game, and by the very nature of being an 80-ton Mech would be larger than the Centurion which is already an Assault sized Mech? No, I haven't seen that picture.

[Jack Gallows]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

You're aware that there are several other advantages (besides KPH) conferred for using larger engines, right?

There are many, and there are downsides as well. Different builds can use either, I use a 300 Standard in my AS7-D(F) for the survivability, but I have a build for it that pushes the engine up to 325. I've got another Atlas with a huge Atlas XL engine but it's designed to fill a different role in our team games.

Slower engines still have a place, even on Assault 'mechs. Depends on what you're doing.

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As for the Cyclops being a smaller Atlas...a lot of 'mechs end up like that and saying that other 'mechs with a little hardpoint love could be more diverse...well that's like saying the hardpoints on the Cyclops won't get looked at either. Most every single 'mech gets hardpoints added, every single one variant usually.

At this point, minus some small differences, most of the Assaults are boiling down to who likes what look or 'mech better off base preference, any of the ones discussed would be fine in game. As I've always claimed, however, I want a Cyclops or a Hatamoto-Chi, but I'm quite ok with a Banshee or a Zeus. The Charger can go sit in a corner.

[Norris J Packard]

Thontor, on 12 February 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Point is you are comparing an upgraded engine to a stock engine

Compare apples to apples here.

48.6 vs 64.8 stock
62.4 vs 79.2 upgraded with speed tweak.

I'm sorry, no, I just realized what we're arguing about here.

I was responding to Odanan who was talking about using under-engined Chargers.

Your point about the Cyclops is a fair one, I wouldn't have contested it otherwise.

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

There are many, and there are downsides as well. Different builds can use either, I use a 300 Standard in my AS7-D(F) for the survivability, but I have a build for it that pushes the engine up to 325. I've got another Atlas with a huge Atlas XL engine but it's designed to fill a different role in our team games.

Slower engines still have a place, even on Assault 'mechs. Depends on what you're doing.

Name one downside. I use a Standard 350 in every single one of my builds. And I even used to use a Standard 360 back before the meta switched to ECM and who can get the biggest Alpha Strike.

[Norris J Packard]

Thontor, on 12 February 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

That is why you should always quote the post you are responding to! Less misunderstandings then.

As for the 300 vs 350 debate.. I use both personally... Its really just a question of firepower vs speed/maneuverabity... Both have their merits IMO... Some people prefer one over the other, obviously you prefer more speed and maneuverability.

But there is no firepower problem with taking a 350.

There isn't. In fact, taking a lower engine is actually going to hurt you more than help you on an Atlas because the 350 will free up six crit slots.

[Karl Streiger]

Did you remember when the comunity was sure that the next announced Mech would be the Highlander - and they brought the most crappy Mech after the Spider... they showed us the Flea.

I'm really afraid of seeing, instead of Zeus, Charger or Banshee a ....Hermes

[Norris J Packard]

Karl Streiger, on 12 February 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Did you remember when the comunity was sure that the next announced Mech would be the Highlander - and they brought the most crappy Mech after the Spider... they showed us the Flea.

I'm really afraid of seeing, instead of Zeus, Charger or Banshee a ....Hermes

We need one more Assault to round it all out, so it's not going to be a Light.

[Karl Streiger]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

We need one more Assault to round it all out, so it's not going to be a Light.

As i said...like it was with the Highlander... there had to be a Assault...and they brought the Flea.

[Norris J Packard]

Karl Streiger, on 12 February 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

As i said...like it was with the Highlander... there had to be a Assault...and they brought the Flea.

But that's because they were rounding out another rotation.

They won't do that again because it is widely accepted that PGI is going to start announcing the Clans in March to coincide with the timeline.

[Lonestar1771]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

But there is no firepower problem with taking a 350.

There isn't. In fact, taking a lower engine is actually going to hurt you more than help you on an Atlas because the 350 will free up six crit slots.

I use every ounce of free weight when I use my 300, so using a 350 HAS to take away from somewhere. Just because YOU see it as a downside does not mean somebody else will. Different strokes for different folks.

[Norris J Packard]

Lonestar1771, on 12 February 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

I use every ounce of free weight when I use my 300, so using a 350 HAS to take away from somewhere. Just because YOU see it as a downside does not mean somebody else will. Different strokes for different folks.

No it don't.

List what you put in your 300 and I'll tell you I can (probably) fit in with my Standard 350.

What're you doing? Some LPL, quad PPC shenanigans that the Atlas has no right doing since it's a terrible direct fire-support Mech?

[Nuck Fewton]

I've got to side with Norris here, I used to use the stock engine in my atlas until I tried a 350. The torso rotation speed is like night and day plus with the extra crit space you don't lose out on any firepower

Edited by Nuck Fewton, 12 February 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[Butane9000]

Ask the devs 32 is up, let's all go ask em where battlemech #20 is.

[Lonestar1771]

This thread needs more....

[Ens]

Lonestar1771, on 12 February 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

This thread needs more....

This GAME needs more of "posted image"

[Viper69]

Is that the Zeus?