20517 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

John MatriX82, on 15 December 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

stuff

You are preaching to the choir about the sized hardpoints. In fact, the original choir, as I have been one of the most vocal about that since early CB.

But despite that, working with what we got, it is not ideal, but it does, for the most part, work. And many of the things nerfed, needed it. The Gauss, as seen in CB totally outclassed and obsoleted every other ballistic, and let's face it, every other weapon. That sir, is not balance. Not in love with the current mechanic, yet I can use it just fine. Is it my fix? No. Did it break the weapon? Only if you consider that the reason most people stopped using it is they were jsut metaraping tryhards and can't actually deal with needing a little skill, then yeah, I guess it's broke beyond belief. And I sure miss having every mech in every match have 2 ER PPC and a Gauss. Wow that was fun.

Are some things nerfed that don't need to be? Sure. The hard capped minimum range, in light of the slow projectile speed and heat of a PPC is just overkill. 2 out of 3 would have been fine. Are they useless though? No.

The UAC5? Finally acting (mostly) like one should. Instead of a full auto jamamatic chaingun, it's an AC5, that can double tap in emergencies.... like it's supposed to be.

Now Flamers and LB-X? Yeah those never have lived up to half what they should be. and I am sure we could endless ly debate for hours the merits and flaws, in our respective opinions of a lot of things.

The point being made was pretty simply that the game does work, once weapons were brought into line, they have been pretty stable (even if you and I might not always like HOW they were "fixed"), and the cries of "money grab!" and "no content" are just plain disingenuous, or downright ignorant.

I get that things ain't laid out the way you want. But I get tired of the constant "PGI is the source of all evil and incompetency" rants on here. And when I see people like you or Odanan, who I know are capable of thinking things through take the "easy road" and start going with the wide stroked smear campaign stuff, it bugs me a lot more than when I see the forum trolls and genpop morons do it.

[FireSlade]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, not to poop on CarrionCrow's "Perfect Hitbox" Theory (I get way more survivability out of my Shawks, but it seems like you gotta dance and juke less in a Thud to survive) but the hardpoint's leave me unimpressed. I feel the my Jagers, I can outclass the Thuds every time. They of course have better hitboxed, but the firepower I can bring with my Jags have probably tinted my expectations, good sir!

I am finding that the Thunderbolts are very quirky and absolutely hate anything close to the meta. For the life of me I can barely do 200 damage in one if I run SRMs or SSRMs but if I run LRMs I get roughly 500 damage and my survivability goes through the roof. One match today I even managed to survive a match with no armor left on my TDR-5SS. It was completely striped off my head, torso, back, legs, and arms; was missing my left torso, left leg and right arm. So it can take a beating but since SRMs require you to get too close to hit and reduce the spread and people have an easy time hitting the CT but at mid to long ranges it does so much better. Of the whole Phoenix mechs the Tbolt is my favorite with the Shadow Hawk coming a close second.

[Odanan]

Steinar Bergstol, on 15 December 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Oh, and the clanmechs presented aren't ones I'm interested in buying either, being one of those old diehard 3025ers as well. That said, if a good looking Vulture/Mad Dog was presented _that_ might be what would manage to make me part with cash since the original Vulture design was always the one clanmech I loved the look of.

I'm sorry, the Vulture is scrap. Always was.*
Mad Cat excels it in EVERYTHING.

If Clan armor is locked... well, there is nothing you can do to save the Vulture.

*if you look at the stats of the Vulture, Uller, Black Hawk and Loki you will think they were engineered by monkeys.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

I get that things ain't laid out the way you want. But I get tired of the constant "PGI is the source of all evil and incompetency" rants on here. And when I see people like you or Odanan, who I know are capable of thinking things through take the "easy road" and start going with the wide stroked smear campaign stuff, it bugs me a lot more than when I see the forum trolls and genpop morons do it.

Well, as much as I try, I don't have fun with MWO anymore. And I think the blame is on PGI... so count me one of the ranters.

Now I'm here just for the art, the friends and the good mech discussion.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 16 December 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

I'm sorry, the Vulture is scrap. Always was.*
Mad Cat excels it in EVERYTHING.

If Clan armor is locked... well, there is nothing you can do to save the Vulture.

*if you look at the stats of the Vulture, Uller, Black Hawk and Loki you will think they were engineered by monkeys.

Actually, many of the original 16 Clan OmniMechs were actually fairly well-armored, in addition to generally being faster than their IS counterparts; specifically, the majority of the 16 initial Clan OmniMechs (12 of the 16, to be exact) are equipped with over 80% of their maximum armor loads, and the majority of those (8 of those 12, or 50% of the original 16 Clan OmniMechs) are carrying 94% or more of their maximum armor loads.

The Daishi carries 19 tons of Standard Armor (99% of maximum).
The Gladiator carries 13.5 tons of Clan FF Armor (88% of maximum).
The Masakari carries 13.5 tons of Clan FF Armor (98% of maximum).
The Man O' War carries 11 tons of Clan FF Armor (85% of maximum).
The Mad Cat carries 12 tons of Clan FF Armor (100% of maximum).
The Thor carries 9.5 tons of Clan FF Armor (84% of maximum).
The Loki carries 8 tons of Standard Armor (61% of maximum).
The Vulture carries 8.5 tons of Clan FF Armor (81% of maximum).
The Ryoken carries 9.5 tons of Clan FF Armor (98% of maximum).
The Black Hawk carries 10 tons of Standard Armor (95% of maximum).
The Fenris carries 7.5 tons of Clan FF Armor (94% of maximum).
The Dragonfly carries 7 tons of Clan FF Armor (98% of maximum).
The Puma carries 6 tons of Clan FF Armor (97% of maximum).
The Uller carries 4 tons of Clan FF Armor (72% of maximum).
The Koshi carries 3.5 tons of Clan FF Armor (75% of maximum).
The Dasher carries 2 tons of Clan FF Armor (55% of maximum).

Outside of the Loki and the three lightest TRO 3050 OmniMechs, the vast majority of the Clans' initial Invasion OmniMechs are at or very near their maximum armor loads.
In fact, only two of the 16 carry less than 70% of their maximum armor load: the 65-ton Loki (61%) and the 20-ton Dasher (55%) - with the former devoting ~43% of its total mass to OmniTech pod space (allowing for substantial and flexible armaments) and the latter carries a massive engine (for a base maximum speed of ~162 kph, going to ~216 kph with MASC activated).

[Tkhaw]

I am betting on another set of clan mechs package along the way!!!

What shall they be?

I am betting on

Light- Firemoth
Medium- Ice ferret
Heavy- Mad dog
Assault- Executioner

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 16 December 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

I'm sorry, the Vulture is scrap. Always was.*
Mad Cat excels it in EVERYTHING.

If Clan armor is locked... well, there is nothing you can do to save the Vulture.

*if you look at the stats of the Vulture, Uller, Black Hawk and Loki you will think they were engineered by monkeys.

Actually, MadDog and Nova were always highly effective, though not always in every config (half the omni configs were {Scrap}). And the KitFox was always a great little mech.

In the current MWO meta, the KitFox might be in trouble, as everyone thinks you need to go 150 kph to survive in a light. Thing is, a lot of Raven 4X pilots had run ghetto-Ullers, and quite a few succeeded. It ain't gonna win the cap race, but with weight limits, sometimes, having a mech that can carry the firepower of a heavy in a chassis half the weight, will actually be handy. And the first time some Light thinks to exploit an Uller, and get's plastered by 4 SSRM6, well, that'll probably raise an eyebrow or two. But yes, just like the Medium/Heavy overlap, the Mech will be most useful in situational role.

The MadDog is a support unit, even if Clan conduct realistically speaks against the role. You don't need Maxi armor is you have decent speed, and 2 LRM20 and 2 ER Large Lasers. Also 8 tons of clan ferro is slightly stronger than 10 tons of IS standard, which while a little light on a 60 tonners, is not overly so.

[John MatriX82]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 December 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

I get that things ain't laid out the way you want. But I get tired of the constant "PGI is the source of all evil and incompetency" rants on here. And when I see people like you or Odanan, who I know are capable of thinking things through take the "easy road" and start going with the wide stroked smear campaign stuff, it bugs me a lot more than when I see the forum trolls and genpop morons do it.

Thanks for the thoughts, but unfortunately, as Odanan, I don't have more fun in this game anymore. It's the high elo I'm inside, it's what I read, but quite frankly I don't want to play with ClanMechs that feature Hello Kitty sponsorship.

I'm just waiting for another "apology" by Russ to say write down the final titles on my MWO time. 51 kills away from the 10.000 mark.

Edited by John MatriX82, 16 December 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Odanan]

Wow, 10k kills...

Bishop Steiner, on 16 December 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

The MadDog is a support unit, even if Clan conduct realistically speaks against the role. You don't need Maxi armor is you have decent speed, and 2 LRM20 and 2 ER Large Lasers. Also 8 tons of clan ferro is slightly stronger than 10 tons of IS standard, which while a little light on a 60 tonners, is not overly so.

A support unit without enough ammo.
And you can't fire those Large Pulse Lasers at the same time of the LRMs or you will get really hot. (I used to replace them with some ER medium lasers, more armor and more ammo)

And the Nova? Come on...

[FireSlade]

Odanan, on 16 December 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

I'm sorry, the Vulture is scrap. Always was.*
Mad Cat excels it in EVERYTHING.

If Clan armor is locked... well, there is nothing you can do to save the Vulture.

*if you look at the stats of the Vulture, Uller, Black Hawk and Loki you will think they were engineered by monkeys.

As much as it does look like they were engineered by monkeys they were pretty good designs as long as you played to their strengths. If you look at clan designs and the fact that all of them have some type of ranged weapons you see that their strengths played to fast skirmishers that used range to their advantage. Heavy armor is mitigated somewhat by speed as we are seeing with lights in MWO. With the Mad Dog it was made to hit hard and fast winning the battle before the enemy could react hence the limited ammo. The Nova took a different approach using speed and DPS to win over a more drawn out battle but still skirmishing over brawling. Yeah I agree that the Timber Wolf is a much better mech than the Mad Dog but when tonnage limits are in play I will be damned if that is not shitload of firepower to fit on a 60 ton mech.

[Steinar Bergstol]

The Timberwolf/Mad Cat can go hang as far as I'm concerned. Statwise it may be better, but the Vulture is _so_ much better looking than the ol' airplane nose with a pair of legs and arms stuck to it. And _that_ is the only thing that matters! As for the idea of not being able to swap out engines or change armor? Love it. I want that for my IS mechs as well, please? One step closer to my dream of having the mechlab as it's been made tossed out on its poorly conceived arse.

[Adridos]

Steinar Bergstol, on 16 December 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

The Timberwolf/Mad Cat can go hang as far as I'm concerned. Statwise it may be better, but the Vulture is _so_ much better looking than the ol' airplane nose with a pair of legs and arms stuck to it.

Well, with the way MW:O is going to handle omni-part of the omni-mechs, Vulture will actually have an advantage or two over the Mad Cat. For instance, you can give it ballistic arms (plus, the config that gives them also uses them as the primaries, so there ought to be more hardpoints per weapon), of which Mad Cat can only have one, likely with a single hardpoint (as the configs in question do have a {Scrap} ton of weapons on themselves alongside the ballistic).

[Cervantes88]

Am I the only one to think the way they're going to "balance" omnimechs is completely ******** ?

They're going to be WORSE than IS mechs. And if IS mechs have access to clan weapons through salvage it's going to be the end real quick for those omnimechs.

Not being able to customize your armor, engine, internal structure, is plain bad. What's the point of swapping arms to have 2 arms mounted AC20s if you CAN'T mount AC20s because you're stuck with some ****** FF armor that takes all your crit slots or because you can't swap to a lighter XL engine ? What's the point of swapping those side torsos to mount some sick SRM racks and be a brawler if you're stuck with a nice combination of low armor + ****** hitboxes that are bound to happen + XL engine which results in a survivability of .5 sec in a brawl ?

IS mechs variants already play the role of "swapping shitwad pieces on my mech", everyone plays the best variant after the XP grind. The "omni" part of the omnimechs needs to be a plus. Not a nerf.

I feel as if out of concern for "balancing" Clan Mechs PGI is just going to make Clan Mechs like trial mechs that you gotta spend a fortune to buy. For christ's sake just implement a WEIGHT LIMITATION SYSTEM and make it so Clan Mechs virtually weight more than their IS equivalents. And let them be fully customizable.

[FireSlade]

Cervantes88, on 16 December 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Am I the only one to think the way they're going to "balance" omnimechs is completely ******** ?
They're going to be WORSE than IS mechs. And if IS mechs have access to clan weapons through salvage it's going to be the end real quick for those omnimechs.
Not being able to customize your armor, engine, internal structure, is plain bad. What's the point of swapping arms to have 2 arms mounted AC20s if you CAN'T mount AC20s because you're stuck with some ****** FF armor that takes all your crit slots or because you can't swap to a lighter XL engine ? What's the point of swapping those side torsos to mount some sick SRM racks and be a brawler if you're stuck with a nice combination of low armor + ****** hitboxes that are bound to happen + XL engine which results in a survivability of .5 sec in a brawl ?
IS mechs variants already play the role of "swapping shitwad pieces on my mech", everyone plays the best variant after the XP grind. The "omni" part of the omnimechs needs to be a plus. Not a nerf.
I feel as if out of concern for "balancing" Clan Mechs PGI is just going to make Clan Mechs like trial mechs that you gotta spend a fortune to buy. For christ's sake just implement a WEIGHT LIMITATION SYSTEM and make it so Clan Mechs virtually weight more than their IS equivalents. And let them be fully customizable.

I actually agree with what PGI is doing. You should not be able to swap anything out to get this perfect build because it will obsolete any and all IS designs. As Paul said they are trying to keep the Clan “flavor” without having these OP weapons and armor. On top of that they never officially said that the Clan equipment will be able to be fielded on IS mechs. We have just been assuming that they would allow it. Also not to sound like an *** but if you want a brawling mech use an IS one, if you want a mech that plays more to the Clan’s strengths then use that; no one is forcing us to use the clan stuff and the whole concept that Clan mechs should overpower IS mechs 2-1 is what screwed up the balance of TT.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 16 December 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Wow, 10k kills...


A support unit without enough ammo.
And you can't fire those Large Pulse Lasers at the same time of the LRMs or you will get really hot. (I used to replace them with some ER medium lasers, more armor and more ammo)

And the Nova? Come on...

no clan mech was designed around extended combat. This is one of the things that was their exploited achilles heel. By TT standards, for the lightning attacks of the Clans it was sufficient, but it is definitely not gonna translate well to MWO.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 16 December 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Wow, 10k kills...


A support unit without enough ammo.
And you can't fire those Large Pulse Lasers at the same time of the LRMs or you will get really hot. (I used to replace them with some ER medium lasers, more armor and more ammo)

And the Nova? Come on...

the Nova? My favorite ride in MW3. I did wicked things in that mech. Sure the 12 ER Mediums is dumb, but it's an omni. And 6 ER Mediums combined with 2 ER LArge and 2 more DHS was jsut fine.

[MechWarrior679696]

So can we hope to see the really fun weapons starting to appear? Given the line-up we've seen so far I'm hoping for LB5-Xes and ER MLs to start with, and then we can take it from there...

[FireSlade]

Mr Huge, on 16 December 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

So can we hope to see the really fun weapons starting to appear? Given the line-up we've seen so far I'm hoping for LB5-Xes and ER MLs to start with, and then we can take it from there...

Yep just do not assume that you will be able to equip clan parts on IS mechs. If PGI does that they will basically shoot themselves in the foot and invalidate their argument for not having slug rounds with the LBX.

[SgtMagor]

a 12 ermed Nova, 18 double heatsinks,10 tons of armor 50ton Hunter/Killer with 5 jump jets, were talking about light mech mobility going 84kph about 90 with speed tweak, this is a scary mech 120+ damage in 3.25 seconds

Edited by SgtMagor, 16 December 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[FireSlade]

SgtMagor, on 16 December 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

a 12 ermed Nova, 18 double heatsinks,10 tons of armor 50ton Hunter/Killer with 5 jump jets, were talking about light mech mobility going 84kph about 90 with speed tweak, this is a scary mech 120+ damage in 3.25 seconds

Sushhhhh.... Niko is about locking threads talking about the clans.

Edited by FireSlade, 16 December 2013 - 05:25 PM.