20517 replies to this topic

[Butane9000]

FireSlade, on 26 February 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

You must not like JJs and XLs, since the Victor does a great job using those two items; same with Highlanders.

Bishop Steiner, on 26 February 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

...what should it have been? It's fast, agile, jumps, has good armor, the best hitboxes of ANY Assault, spreads and tanks damage like a boss, even with an XL, and can pack comparable firepower to an Atlas or HGN while going 20 kph faster than either.

Short of being buffed with Clan Tech, have trouble understanding what more it could do. It's a crap LRM boat, and only MEH as a Laser/PPC boat, obviously (aka, doesn't have multiple highmount energy points for hill and poptarting), but it is easily the most versatile Assault, and can easily outduel ANY other assault.

Different strokes for different folks (I happen to like the BLR too, though it is my second fave Assault), but can't see how it's a "shadow" of anything bro.

The Victor lacks it's requisite ballistic hard points. We had this discussion when it was announced and then released. It's vastly shy of what it could have been. Our very first true ballistic assault. Instead PGI pandered to the fear of AC40 without the XL weakness and opted to nerf the Victor.

Now everyone's losing their mind over the Mauler, a mech we know of that is heavy ballistics and even heavier weight wise then the Victor. It's asinine to be honest. Now I've seen Victors in the battlefield and they clearly perform, but personally with the way PGI implemented them and the ones I've played I just have no interest. If I need to jump in an assault I'll just keep my Highlanders.

[CDLord HHGD]

Light: 14
30T: Urbanmech
35T: Wolfhound

Medium: 15
45T: Hatchetman

Heavy: 13
70T: Guillotine
75T: Marauder

Assault: 11
80T: Zeus


This is what I want to complete my IS dreams.

[Odanan]

Butane9000, on 26 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

The Victor lacks it's requisite ballistic hard points. We had this discussion when it was announced and then released. It's vastly shy of what it could have been. Our very first true ballistic assault. Instead PGI pandered to the fear of AC40 without the XL weakness and opted to nerf the Victor.

Now everyone's losing their mind over the Mauler, a mech we know of that is heavy ballistics and even heavier weight wise then the Victor. It's asinine to be honest. Now I've seen Victors in the battlefield and they clearly perform, but personally with the way PGI implemented them and the ones I've played I just have no interest. If I need to jump in an assault I'll just keep my Highlanders.

You talk about the lack of the VTR-9A and the VTR-9A1 in MWO... yes, I miss them too.
I would have bought the Victor a long time ago it these variants were included.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 February 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

almost all variants of the Firestarter are the "same". Even simply having the hardpoint in different locations have given them immense stylistic flavor, allowing one to custom tailor them to your preferences.

Come on, it's unfair to compare the Firestarter with the Black Knight. Firestart has some difference in the variants (it has even one with ECM in the stock variant, even if PGI didn't added it).
The Black Knight, on the other hand:

Spoiler

BL-6-KNT (2578)
Endo Steel

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (PPC, Medium Laser)

BL-6-KNT (2751)
Endo Steel, DHS

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Pulse Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Pulse Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (ER PPC, Medium Laser)

BL-7-KNT (2809)

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (PPC, Medium Laser)

BL-7-KNT-L (2809)

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)

Even by adding 1 more energy hardpoint in a different location to each variant, those would be very similar to each other.

Also, consider this:
60 tons: Lancelot (energy boat) -> possible heavy candidate
60 tons: Quickdraw (energy boat)
70 tons: Grasshopper/Guillotine (energy boat) -> possible heavy candidate
75 tons: Black Knight (energy boat)
80 tons: Awesome (energy boat)

I'm not saying the Black Knight should not (and will not) be added at all*. I'm saying that, with so many energy boats of similar weight, the Black Knight must not be a priority.

It might be a very powerful mech in TT (all energy boats are), it might look extremely badass (like your version and this, not the original art), it might even bring good memories to the MW4 fans, but shouldn't other more common, diversified chassis, appear first? I hope they will.

*With so many good chassis already in game, I'm become more and more flexible (this is a different situation from a year ago). There will be a time when just by continuing to add new mechs will make me happy.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 26 February 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

The Dragoon was purposefully rendered wholly extinct & unrecoverable, as it was the brainchild of Stefan Amaris; "Produced in limited numbers, only the elite of Amaris's regiments and a select few of Armaris' loyal chosen would receive the design and its variants. The design would see service in the Star League Civil War, often being salvaged by the Star League Defense Force. However, after the liberation of Terra, General Kerensky would order the purging of the design and the retooling of Krupp's two Dragoon production lines. The few remaining Dragoons in service elsewhere would become extinct before the 3rd Succession War."

The BattleAxe, the first home-grown AFFS BattleMech, fares only very slightly better; "The last BattleAxes, considered ancient, were destroyed in a desperate defense of Robinson against conventionally equipped Combat Vehicle formations during the Second Succession War."
However, Achernar BattleMechs revives the design during the WOB Jihad, when they start producing the BKX-8D variant in 3073 (along with likewise reviving the Hammerhands, the second original AFFS 'Mech, in 3071).
However, their general resemblance to the Warhammer may be enough to cause issue and keep them from seeing the light of day in MWO... (*insert curses upon Harmony Gold USA here*)

and the Hammerhands was cooler anyhow.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 26 February 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

Come on, it's unfair to compare the Firestarter with the Black Knight. Firestart has some difference in the variants (it has even one with ECM in the stock variant, even if PGI didn't added it).
The Black Knight, on the other hand:

Spoiler

BL-6-KNT (2578)
Endo Steel

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (PPC, Medium Laser)

BL-6-KNT (2751)
Endo Steel, DHS

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Pulse Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Pulse Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (ER PPC, Medium Laser)

BL-7-KNT (2809)

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (PPC, Medium Laser)

BL-7-KNT-L (2809)

LA 1 energy (Medium Laser)
LT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
H 1 energy (Small Laser)
CT
RT 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)
RA 2 energy (Large Laser, Medium Laser)

Even by adding 1 more energy hardpoint in a different location to each variant, those would be very similar to each other.

Also, consider this:
60 tons: Lancelot (energy boat) -> possible heavy candidate
60 tons: Quickdraw (energy boat)
70 tons: Grasshopper/Guillotine (energy boat) -> possible heavy candidate
75 tons: Black Knight (energy boat)
80 tons: Awesome (energy boat)

I'm not saying the Black Knight should not (and will not) be added at all*. I'm saying that, with so many energy boats of similar weight, the Black Knight must not be a priority.

It might be a very powerful mech in TT (all energy boats are), it might look extremely badass (like your version and this, not the original art), it might even bring good memories to the MW4 fans, but shouldn't other more common, diversified chassis, appear first? I hope they will.

*With so many good chassis already in game, I'm become more and more flexible (this is a different situation from a year ago). There will be a time when just by continuing to add new mechs will make me happy.

this version looks better


as for the FS) vs BLK argument, what COULD have been and what is, are too different things. Yes, 2 have MGs. The rest are just multiple reshuffling of Energy Hardpoints.

[FireSlade]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 February 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

this version looks better

Damn I love that version. Put the Atlas's glowing eyes on it and you have one hell of a scary mech.

[Butane9000]

I ultimately think the Marauder will make it into the game at this point.

The only real options for another 75 ton IS mech is the Marauder or Black Knight. While I think both would be good additions to the game the Marauder is easily considered the better chassis. Eventually PGI will break from the fear of lawsuits with concept art that distinctly re-imagines the project phoenix redesigns similar to the current Phoenix mechs in game.

[Bishop Steiner]

Butane9000, on 26 February 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

I ultimately think the Marauder will make it into the game at this point.

The only real options for another 75 ton IS mech is the Marauder or Black Knight. While I think both would be good additions to the game the Marauder is easily considered the better chassis. Eventually PGI will break from the fear of lawsuits with concept art that distinctly re-imagines the project phoenix redesigns similar to the current Phoenix mechs in game.

i kNow some will disagree, but if Alex just redoes the reseen version to be a little bettered proportioned, I would buy it.

[Odanan]

Butane9000, on 26 February 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

I ultimately think the Marauder will make it into the game at this point.

The only real options for another 75 ton IS mech is the Marauder or Black Knight. While I think both would be good additions to the game the Marauder is easily considered the better chassis. Eventually PGI will break from the fear of lawsuits with concept art that distinctly re-imagines the project phoenix redesigns similar to the current Phoenix mechs in game.

Think about it:
PGI appeased the old-school with the Project Phoenix (and the classic designs).
Now, in the year of 2014 and 2015 they will appease the Clan crowd.
In 2016, they can do time leaps and appease the new gen, by introducing MW3 and MW4 mechs.

Will PGI risk to add the Marauder and the Macross Unseen at any point? I'm afraid that train has left the station...

(unless PGI strike a deal with HG, at least to guarantee they won't sue the Reseen Macross, and put all cards in the table to make a big "Project Phoenix II" somewhere between 2015 and 2017)

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 February 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

this version looks better

Oh, yes! Forgot about this one. Best Black Knight ever!
(it would be a challenge for Alex Iglesias to beat that one)

Edited by Odanan, 27 February 2014 - 03:53 AM.

[Odanan]

FireSlade, on 26 February 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

Damn I love that version. Put the Atlas's glowing eyes on it and you have one hell of a scary mech.

Glowing eyes and silver painting would remind this.

Edited by Odanan, 27 February 2014 - 04:28 AM.

[SgtMagor]

I want the Black knight variant from Mw4, jump jets included Champion mech!

Edited by SgtMagor, 27 February 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[FireSlade]

Odanan, on 27 February 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

Glowing eyes and silver painting would remind this.

Only if it was a single moving dot but otherwise it would look sort of like this but with a red glow.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 27 February 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

(unless PGI strike a deal with HG, at least to guarantee they won't sue the Reseen Macross, and put all cards in the table to make a big "Project Phoenix II" somewhere between 2015 and 2017)

Which is what they should do. Yes some people will complain. Some would complain if we got the Unaltered Unseen. I'd complain if we got Shimmering Sword's version (unless it was supposed to be a Marauder II.... sometimes I wonder what resolution his monitor is.... maybe his design looks skinnier on his screen....). No design will ever make 100% of people happy so even worrying about that is pointless. If 1/3 the population of MWO would be satisfied with the Reseen redux, then it would be well worth it. If the other 2/3 rage quit because they didn't get the Marauder THEY wanted, well, it's time for them to get out of mom's basement and put on their big girl panties. If they somehow gave us Shim's version, I would just need to suck it up, because having the Marauder is better than not having it, period. (though that really fat and odd Warhammer you like....... ehhhhh... I might have to recant everything I said here.....)

[Odanan]

What fat and odd Warhammer?

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 27 February 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

What fat and odd Warhammer?

dis one


love child of an Awesome and a Highlander with bad cankles and funky sneakers.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

dis one
love child of an Awesome and a Highlander with bad cankles and funky sneakers.

Hey, I don't love this one, but we can't have the Unseen (or anything similar, as proved by the MW5 legal problems).

As long as we can have one of the Battletech's most important mechs in MWO and end this Unseen/Reseen BS, I don't care if it even looks like this.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 27 February 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

Hey, I don't love this one, but we can't have the Unseen (or anything similar, as proved by the MW5 legal problems).

As long as we can have one of the Battletech's most important mechs in MWO and end this Unseen/Reseen BS, I don't care if it even looks like this.

I think the simple expedient of relocating the SRM rack would be one of the hugest ways to "break the silhouette" and thus the "unmistakable similarity" while also improving in game hit boxes and well, believability factor. (That precariously perched launcher worked in Macross for a 1 shot missile pack, but for reloads? Not so much) While I would like to see "finished" versions by a better artist like Alex, I think this

or this


with a few tweaks to the lower arms and feet, would do the job. Of course, not having the separate rack causes much angst amongst the "Unseen or not at all" crowd, but since they never going to get their wish, no reason the rest of us cannot.

[SgtMagor]

I kind of like that Whammy, the arms just look a little weird with no elbows, it would have good vertical range, don't see how it could twist the arms horizontally...
(FD's whammy!)


BS the pink or peach colored Wham 2 thumbs up!

Edited by SgtMagor, 27 February 2014 - 11:14 AM.