20517 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Anjian, on 04 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

If you're going to put a 55 ton medium mech this month, I thought bringing the Hoplite in would have been a better idea if you are tired of humanoid designs. The artwork for this Hoplite is actually from Alex Inglesias, pre MWO days. This probably gives you the best idea if ever how this mech would look if it comes to MWO.

Odanan, on 04 August 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

The Hoplite would be a terrible mech in MWO... too slow, with very limited hardpoints...
(it has that ugly beauty which Alex Iglesias works so well, tough)

The other issue with the Hoplite is that it is non-existent in the IS outside of the Wolf's Dragoons, and even they lack the facilities to replace any Hoplites that they lose - no one in the IS has built Hoplites since the fall of the Star League.

"While every Hoplite in the Inner Sphere was destroyed during the Amaris Crisis and the early Succession Wars, Aleksandr Kerensky's SLDF exiles found the simple and rugged design ideal for bolstering their forces in the months prior to the Exodus Civil War. Selected by the Wolf's Dragoons in the belief that the ancient design wouldn't arouse undue attention, it had the complete opposite effect, and only raised more questions as to the Dragoons' origins when they arrived in 3005. After the mercenaries cut ties with the Clan Homeworlds in 3020, they also lost access to replacement Hoplites, with attrition bringing the design close to extinction by the Jihad. During the Jihad, when the surviving Dragoons relocated to Arc-Royal, experimental refits were performed on the remaining Hoplites, which continued after the conflict's end."

By contrast, every 'Mech announced/implemented thus far is at least semi-common within the armies of at least two of the Successor States.

Though, do consider the variants that would likely be implemented:

• HOP-4A: x1 AC/10 (RT), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load [this variant is identical to the 4C, save the communication system]
  
• HOP-4B: x1 PPC (RA), x1 LRM-15 (LA), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load
  
• HOP-4C: x1 AC/10 (RT), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load [this variant is identical to the 4A, save the communication system]
  
• HOP-4D: x1 LB 10-X (RA), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load

(All BTE links point to the 'Mech so named as of the time of this writing.)


All but one variant are limited to ballistic/missile mixes (with the remaining variant being using an energy-missile mix), and none of the variants are jump-capable.
Make of that what you will.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 05 August 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[Colddawg]

what year is the Strider? It's based on the Cicada after all.

[Strum Wealh]

Colddawg, on 04 August 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

what year is the Strider? It's based on the Cicada after all.

The base Strider, from which each of the configurations is built, makes its debut in 3057.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 04 August 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

The other issue with the Hoplite is that it is non-existent in the IS outside of the Wolf's Dragoons, and even they lack the facilities to replace any Hoplites that they lose - no one in the IS has built Hoplites since the fall of the Star League.

"While every Hoplite in the Inner Sphere was destroyed during the Amaris Crisis and the early Succession Wars, Aleksandr Kerensky's SLDF exiles found the simple and rugged design ideal for bolstering their forces in the months prior to the Exodus Civil War. Selected by the Wolf's Dragoons in the belief that the ancient design wouldn't arouse undue attention, it had the complete opposite effect, and only raised more questions as to the Dragoons' origins when they arrived in 3005. After the mercenaries cut ties with the Clan Homeworlds in 3020, they also lost access to replacement Hoplites, with attrition bringing the design close to extinction by the Jihad. During the Jihad, when the surviving Dragoons relocated to Arc-Royal, experimental refits were performed on the remaining Hoplites, which continued after the conflict's end."

By contrast, every 'Mech announced/implemented thus far is at least semi-common within the armies of at least two of the Successor States.

Though, do consider the variants that would likely be implemented:

• HOP-4A: x1 AC/10 (RT), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load [this variant is identical to the 4C, save the communication system]
  
• HOP-4B: x1 PPC (RA), x1 LRM-15 (LA), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load
  
• HOP-4C: x1 AC/10 (RT), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load [this variant is identical to the 4A, save the communication system]
  
• HOP-4D: x1 LB 10-X (RA), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load

(All BTE links point to the 'Mech so named as of the time of this writing.)


All but one variant are limited to ballistic/missile mixes (with the remaining variant being using an energy-missile mix), and none of the variants are jump-capable.
Make of that what you will.

and they were destroyed because they were a terribad design. 64 kph, over heatsinked, undergunned. Jaime Wolf MUST be a combat genius to have done so well when you look at just how bad most of their "private" designs really were.

[Bishop Steiner]

A little variant short, but I would still love to see this guy:

84 kph, 5 JJ, 50 tonner with arm mounted Ballistic and Energy (and a bonus belly laser). I made a rough analogue for one back in Closed Beta trying to find a "happy build" with my Founder's Hunch, and did surprisingly well. I'm thinking with JJs, Endo, DHS and OH IDK< a Gauss? Even better.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 August 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

A little variant short, but I would still love to see this guy:
[Enforcer]
84 kph, 5 JJ, 50 tonner with arm mounted Ballistic and Energy (and a bonus belly laser). I made a rough analogue for one back in Closed Beta trying to find a "happy build" with my Founder's Hunch, and did surprisingly well. I'm thinking with JJs, Endo, DHS and OH IDK< a Gauss? Even better.

The Davion's Vindicator! Very good sketch!
(it is a shame the Enforcer has so few variants...)

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Gimme that Hoplite and Black Knight

[Damocles]

Are we missing the Javelin as a prospective light mech?

[Odanan]

Damocles, on 05 August 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

Are we missing the Javelin as a prospective light mech?

You are right: Javelin is a possible candidate for next light.
(too bad the JVN-11B is from 3054)

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 05 August 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

The Davion's Vindicator! Very good sketch!
(it is a shame the Enforcer has so few variants...)

Heresy!!!!!!

Odanan, on 05 August 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

The Davion's Vindicator! Very good sketch!
(it is a shame the Enforcer has so few variants...)

Heresy!!!!!!

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 August 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Heresy!!!!!!

Isn't it the most popular Davion's medium mech?

[Adridos]

Odanan, on 05 August 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Isn't it the most popular Davion's medium mech?

That's one aspect Davions are actually a lot like British.

Their mechs are just like British food. Rubbish and most of them just pilot/eat foreign stuff.

Favorite Davion light mech? Jenner (DC), followed by Raven (CC).
Favorite medium? Centurion (FWL) and later Bushawacker (LC).
Favorite heavy? Cataphract (CC) and Caesar (read, a mech built upon original CTF, not 3D).
Favorite assault? Victor (DC, St.I, SL)

Notice any pattern here? Not a single of their own mechs. I gotta give them, though, I wouldn't pilot it either.

Edited by Adridos, 05 August 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Adridos, on 05 August 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

That's one aspect Davions are actually a lot like British.

Their mechs are just like British food. Rubbish and most of them just pilot/eat foreign stuff.

Favorite Davion light mech? Jenner (DC), followed by Raven (CC).
Favorite medium? Centurion (FWL) and later Bushawacker (LC).
Favorite heavy? Cataphract (CC) and Caesar (read, a mech built upon original CTF, not 3D).
Favorite assault? Victor (DC, St.I, SL)

Notice any pattern here? Not a single of their own mechs. I gotta give them, though, I wouldn't pilot it either.

Well, part of the problem is that the most-favored 'Mechs actually designed and built in the FedSuns - the Valkyrie, the Rifleman, and the Marauder - are Macross-based Unseen.

The Blackjack was designed and is produced by General Motors (which is based in the FedSuns, and is the same company that designed the Marauder), making it a FedSuns 'Mech.
The JagerMech is a FedSuns 'Mech, designed and built by Kallon Industries (which is based in the FedSuns, and is the same company that designed the Rifleman) and Independence Weaponry (before the loss of the latter with the fall of the planet Quentin to the DCMS in the War of 3039)

The Dervish is a FedSuns 'Mech (as no one other than Achernar BattleMechs is building them until the Jihad) with a sufficient number of variants (DV-6M, DV-6Md, and DV-7D), but it has not been announced/implemented as yet.

The Axman was designed at the NAIS on New Avalon, but only has two variants (AXM-1N and AXM-2N) available until 3057.
The Devastator was recovered by the FedSuns and was put into production by the FedSuns side of Corean Enterprises (which is the same company that designed the Valkyrie), but doesn't have enough variants at this point (only the DVS-1D and DVS-2 are available until 3058).
The Enforcer only has two non-custom variants, so it would not work under MWO's XP system.
The Hornet was recovered by Kallon Industries, and has its third variant (the HNT-171) available in 3051 (soon...?).

A fair number of the other 'Mechs that were designed and/or built in the FedSuns don't exist as of 3050.

[Adridos]

I'm not talking about mechs produced by you, I'm talking about mechs that are actually popular.

[Marauder3D]

Adridos, on 05 August 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

That's one aspect Davions are actually a lot like British.

Their mechs are just like British food. Rubbish and most of them just pilot/eat foreign stuff.

Favorite Davion light mech? Jenner (DC), followed by Raven (CC).
Favorite medium? Centurion (FWL) and later Bushawacker (LC).
Favorite heavy? Cataphract (CC) and Caesar (read, a mech built upon original CTF, not 3D).
Favorite assault? Victor (DC, St.I, SL)

Notice any pattern here? Not a single of their own mechs. I gotta give them, though, I wouldn't pilot it either.

Just silly. I'll grant you the JagerMech, but every faction has its horrid mech that is supposed to be a favorite there. Go take a look at the Charger 1A1 that both the Liaos and Kuritans use. I'd take a Jager 5x over that machine.

Light mech: Valkyrie and Javelin. Both great mechs. If we use the salvage of our enemies, are we to be blamed?

Medium mech: Phoenix Hawk, Enforcer, and Centurion. Since the Centurion is manufactured on Panpour in the FedSuns, it is definitely an AFFS mech. Hopefully the other two mechs will make it into the game.

Heavy mech: Marauder, Rifleman, JagerMech. Davion Heavy mechs are high on firepower, and in the case of the Rifleman and the JagerMech, low on armor. The Marauder is one of the kings of the heavies, we just have to see how bold PGI's Project Phoenix becomes. See Strum Wealh's post above. Also: don't get mad because you lost the best Cataphract factory in the Inner Sphere to Davion. Note: the best Cataphract in game is the 3D.

Assault: Atlas, Devastator, Victor. So what we lost a Victor plant to the Kuritans, you win some, you lose some. You know who else lost some? The CC. Easy come, easy go.

Adridos, I know you know better!

[Adridos]

Marauder3D, on 05 August 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Just silly. I'll grant you the JagerMech, but every faction has its horrid mech that is supposed to be a favorite there. Go take a look at the Charger 1A1 that both the Liaos and Kuritans use. I'd take a Jager 5x over that machine.

CGR-1A5 - The 1A5 variant of the Charger is one of the first variants of the Charger made to take it from the role of scout to assault 'Mech. A Capellan modification to the CGR-1Ls they received as part of the Kapteyn Accords, the engine has been downgraded to a 320 version, which reduces the maximum speed of the 'Mech to 64.8 km/h, and and four of the Small Lasers have been removed. In their place are an Autocannon/20 as its primary weapon, two SRM-6 launchers and a Medium Laser, while the 'Mech's armor has been increased by five tons. This makes the CGR-1A5 extremely dangerous at close ranges and gives it a speed comparable to most 'Mechs in the heavy weight class, while carrying armor on par with other eighty-ton 'Mechs.

When we get lemons, we make sweet juice out of them... you on the other hand...

Despite the upgrades the CTF-3D was only marginally deployed by the AFFC and eventually relegated to the Crucis March Militia...

RVN-2X - Many of the Ravens captured by the Federated Suns in the Fourth Succession War were refitted to the 2X standard. It replaces the EW equipment with a Large Laser and adds an additional two and a half tons of armor.

... get a great mech and turn it to trash.

Edited by Adridos, 05 August 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Marauder3D]

Adridos, on 05 August 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Despite the upgrades the CTF-3D was only marginally deployed by the AFFC and eventually relegated to the Crucis March Militia...

Any source for this? You are contradicted by TRO 3039 there, which says they were used throughout the Crucis Lancers, one of the mainline AFFS RCT Brigades.

Furthermore, despite the variants, there will be far more Charger 1A1's out there than 1L or A5's--just by dint of how long the 1A1 was produced.

Before the introduction of formal ECM and Active probes, all Ravens were trash, no no loss there.

Lastly--no admission that you were wrong about every "favorite" mech in the AFFS--with perhaps the exception of the Victor?

(note: this is a lore-nerdery challenge, not a personal attack!)

Edited by Marauder3D, 05 August 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 05 August 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Isn't it the most popular Davion's medium mech?

the heresy is to compare it to a piece of capellan garbage like the Vindicator. The Enforcer is was built and engineered by educated scientists, in a clean, modern battlemech factory. The Cappies don't pilot Vindicators because they are great mechs, they do it because they are essentially the biggest Mech they can produce, not counting the hodgepodge they make out of the Cataphract tryign to duct tape 3 different mechs together....because they can't actually build one.

No rats or birds nest are shipped in place of heatsinks on an Enforcer, let me tell you!

And we may use a lot of foreign stuff, but at least ours aren't cheap unlicensed knockoffs of quality items. As usal, the image obsessed and inferiority complex laden cappies confuse bling for quality. Which is why even their prize Cataphract only became viable AFTER we FedComs liberated Tikonov from their barbarous hands and revamped it to work like a PROPER Mech factory.

But, as a free-thinking member of the enlightened Federated Commonwealth, I fully understand Adridos fanatical toeing of the Capellan Propaganda. After all, People with the courage and conviction to speak truth in that noxious realm have only torture and death to look forward to, and most have been so brain-washed that thye actually believe that Romano IS the reincarnation of the Goddess Kali. Poor benighted Cappies. We should have finished liberating them, Comstar Interdiction or not.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 August 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Adridos]

Marauder3D, on 05 August 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Any source for this? You are contradicted by TRO 3039 there, which says they were used throughout the Crucis Lancers, one of the mainline AFFS RCT Brigades.

Lastly--no admission that you were wrong about every "favorite" mech in the AFFS--with perhaps the exception of the Victor?

So you're saying TRO: 3039 actually says anything about the usage of CTF-3Ds, considering that mech runs full on lostech and wasn't made until 3050? Source is Sarna, so hopefully the colleagues over there did quote it from somewhere and haven't just made it up on the spot.

And I'm not wrong. Every time I see anyone waving a Davion flag in the game or on the forums, he's a total sucker for Jenner or Raven and writes off their own Commando as trash. The same goes for many of their own designs. Heck, even when it coems to Blackjacks, it's Capellan BJ-3 90% of the time... and they run just about any Centurion (and yes, CN9-A is fully Marik design) but the Davion refit.

[Marauder3D]

Sarna is a resource like wikipedia: it has errors in it. It is a good resource mind you, but it isn't canon.

TRO: 3039 is canon. And to answer your question, it is written from the perspective of 3073, so it is quite definitive on the topic of deployment.

As for in game mechs, the current meta involves extensive ECM, so sure the Raven is popular.

Lastly, conflating Capellan with a mech from St. Ives is a common mistake. Different states with different rulers. Fast forward 13 years and you would be correct. 3050? Not so much. So the BJ-3 is deployed by the St. Ives Compact, and the AFFS units that defend it. Not Capellan units. As a matter of fact, no Capellan units would have it in 3050. (TRO: 3050U)

And if a design was produced in Davion space, like the CN9-A, it is just like almost all the other designs in BattleTech lore: a shared design to which multiple houses have access. Take the JagerMech. By 3050, it is being produced in the Draconis Combine as well. They have full access to the design, so it ceases to be a purely "Davion" mech.

Your lore-nerdery needs work sir!~

Edited by Marauder3D, 05 August 2013 - 11:40 AM.