20517 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

So, the Wolfhound, Crab, Black Knight, and Mauler were announced...

[Metus regem]

Interesting choice, most are what I though for sure, but the Mauler kind of threw me, I would've expected the Cyclops...

[Odanan]

Jesus Christ!!

RESISTANCE PACK II is out!

[Odanan]

I'm getting the Mauler.
Question is: A La Carte or full pack?

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 30 April 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'm getting the Mauler.
Question is: A La Carte or full pack?

Go whole hog, and get all the goodies

[Ovion]

I'm nothing if not a sucker.

Bought the tier 1 pack just to get the Jager A champ (only Jager I don't have).
Will upgrade to crab at some point.

Will probably leave it there this time.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ovion, on 30 April 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

I'm nothing if not a sucker.

Bought the tier 1 pack just to get the Jager A champ (only Jager I don't have).
Will upgrade to crab at some point.

Will probably leave it there this time.

Jager A Champ is in the Resistance Pack?

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

Jager A Champ is in the Resistance Pack?

It's a bonus for day 1 orders.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 30 April 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'm getting the Mauler.
Question is: A La Carte or full pack?

Not to be a killjoy, but stop, and look very carefully at the geometry.

That mech will have torso hitboxes that make the AWS feel special. I can't even speculate how serious of armor/structure buffs it will need to be viable.

Odanan, on 30 April 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

It's a bonus for day 1 orders.

Huh.

Shame there is exactly one variant of one chassis I might remotely be interested in. The Jumping Crab. So, this make the second pack I will be skipping. Sad.

And sadder for me, it ain't even about the economics. I just don't see anything I like. Hope others like them more than I do. (Hey, still got Resistance I and my Urbies, so I ain't crying too much!)

[Ovion]

yeah, I just don't care about the mauler or the black night, both bore me a little.
Hell, the whole pack is reasonably boring, it's mainly the crab I like.
And the light, because it's a light.

The Jager A however~

Edited by Ovion, 30 April 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[ShadowbaneX]

Metus regem, on 30 April 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Go whole hog, and get all the goodies

I did. Mostly cause the Mauler (yay ballistic assaults!)

[Butane9000]

Cool pack but really homogeneous variants on most of them. Wolfhound makes sense as a play mate for the Panther but we could have gone with the Clint or Sentinel to give us another 40 ton mech. Black Knights iconic but we have other options (I'm rooting for the Guillotine).

[Odanan]

Butane9000, on 30 April 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

Cool pack but really homogeneous variants on most of them. Wolfhound makes sense as a play mate for the Panther but we could have gone with the Clint or Sentinel to give us another 40 ton mech. Black Knights iconic but we have other options (I'm rooting for the Guillotine).

I agree. I'm not very fan of laser boats, so I didn't get the full pack. If the light* and/or medium** were something different, I wouldn't think twice.

Honestly, it was a shame they picked the Grasshopper over the Guillotine (probably because the Hopper's popularity due to the Battletech TT basic box)... oh well, I suppose the GLT lost her chance.

* Javelin would be cool.
** I was looking forward for Assassin, Vulcan, Clint or Sentinel.

[Juodas Varnas]

Odanan, on 01 May 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

I agree. I'm not very fan of laser boats, so I didn't get the full pack. If the light* and/or medium** were something different, I wouldn't think twice.

Honestly, it was a shame they picked the Grasshopper over the Guillotine (probably because the Hopper's popularity due to the Battletech TT basic box)... oh well, I suppose the GLT lost her chance.

* Javelin would be cool.
** I was looking forward for Assassin, Vulcan, Clint or Sentinel.

I was really hoping for a Javelin and Vulcan myself.
Definitely would have persuaded me to pick up the pack. But since we got 12/16 mech variants that are nothing but energy boats... Well, i guess i won't be picking it up.

[Odanan]

Last match yesterday night, me and my buddies playing - if you are curious to see our unit and hear (Brazilian) Portuguese speaking, check it out.
Despite being crippled in the beginning of the match and missing a lot of shots, you can see some Odanan's good (and bad) action with the "Jackhammer" Banshee 3E (3:49 onward).

Edited by Odanan, 02 May 2015 - 09:34 AM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

The sad thing about the heavies is there is very few 'Mechs left in the timeline which are interesting, let alone good. The only other 75 ton 'Mech left which is not a Marauder is the Flashman and it with 8 or 9 beams on its two available timeline variants. Not exactly different. I know there is much sentimental value tied to the BK from MW4:BK and MW4:Mercs, but it really is an average and incredibly uninteresting energy boat. Only thing is looks and personally I think there are much better looking 'Mechs.
Alternatives are not really too great themselves:
Grand Dragon (one of the better alternatives)
Bombardier
Champion
Lancelot (yet another energy boat, but it has some ballistic variants)
Guillotine (probably the best candidate)
Merlin (has a little of everything)
Caesar (can be made from the CTF-1X anyways)
Flashman (already commented on)
Ostsol & Ostroc (I think the redesign pulled it out of HG hell, maybe. Still energy boats)

Left out of the above list:
Exterminator (limited production run of the only variant which was available outside of Comstar)
Axman (because of the titular ax)
Rifleman (you should not have to ask why)
Crusader (see Rifleman)
Archer (still see Rifleman)
Marauder (that Rifleman? Still see it)
Warhammer (sigh, go back to the Rifleman... again)
Shootist (Nigh extinct outside of Comstar)
Excalibur (see Shootist)

I have never been much of a Crab fan. There are better mediums and more importantly, more interesting mediums available for introduction. The only thing unique about the Crab (compared to what is available in game) is the Star League variant because it is a 50 ton energy boat with jump jets. And where is the HBK-4N?

Assassin
Clint
Chameleon (OK, this can wait until the tutorial is done with a C-Bill bonus version given for completing the tutorial)
Cronus (it is all but a 55 ton Panther, only one timeline variant available though, limited production as each one is hand built)
Dervish
Hermes II
Sentinel
Starslayer (rare, out of production, and one variant, but enough numbers to be available in some numbers)
Vulcan
Whitworth
Wolf Trap (only one variant though)
Wyvern

Left out of the medium list:
Hatchetman (titular hatchet)
Hoplite (Extinct outside of Comstar, the Clans, and Wolf's Dragoons)
Phoenix Hawk (odd, that darn Rifleman keeps sneaking into these)
Scorpion (I want quads so very much ;_; )

Not going to argue the Wolfhound because I like it. There are more interesting candidates weapon wise, I will admit.

The Mauler? Not a fan personally though I understand the sentimental value, but look at it. Those hitboxes make the Awesome look anorexic. It will live and die by its quirks and no 'Mech should have to rely on quirks so heavily.

I do think quirk creep is not helping here either, but that is another topic.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 02 May 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[Odanan]

Nathan Foxbane, on 02 May 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

The sad thing about the heavies is there is very few 'Mechs left in the timeline which are interesting, let alone good. The only other 75 ton 'Mech left which is not a Marauder is the Flashman and it with 8 or 9 beams on its two available timeline variants. Not exactly different. I know there is much sentimental value tied to the BK from MW4:BK and MW4:Mercs, but it really is an average and incredibly uninteresting energy boat. Only thing is looks and personally I think there are much better looking 'Mechs.
Alternatives are not really too great themselves:
Grand Dragon (one of the better alternatives)
Bombardier
Champion
Lancelot (yet another energy boat, but it has some ballistic variants)
Guillotine (probably the best candidate)
Merlin (has a little of everything)
Caesar (can be made from the CTF-1X anyways)
Flashman (already commented on)
Ostsol & Ostroc (I think the redesign pulled it out of HG hell, maybe. Still energy boats)

Left out of the above list:
Exterminator (limited production run of the only variant which was available outside of Comstar)
Axman (because of the titular ax)
Rifleman (you should not have to ask why)
Crusader (see Rifleman)
Archer (still see Rifleman)
Marauder (that Rifleman? Still see it)
Warhammer (sigh, go back to the Rifleman... again)
Shootist (Nigh extinct outside of Comstar)
Excalibur (see Shootist)

I have never been much of a Crab fan. There are better mediums and more importantly, more interesting mediums available for introduction. The only thing unique about the Crab (compared to what is available in game) is the Star League variant because it is a 50 ton energy boat with jump jets. And where is the HBK-4N?

Assassin
Clint
Chameleon (OK, this can wait until the tutorial is done with a C-Bill bonus version given for completing the tutorial)
Cronus (it is all but a 55 ton Panther, only one timeline variant available though, limited production as each one is hand built)
Dervish
Hermes II
Sentinel
Starslayer (rare, out of production, and one variant, but enough numbers to be available in some numbers)
Vulcan
Whitworth
Wolf Trap (only one variant though)
Wyvern

Left out of the medium list:
Hatchetman (titular hatchet)
Hoplite (Extinct outside of Comstar, the Clans, and Wolf's Dragoons)
Phoenix Hawk (odd, that darn Rifleman keeps sneaking into these)
Scorpion (I want quads so very much ;_; )

Not going to argue the Wolfhound because I like it. There are more interesting candidates weapon wise, I will admit.

The Mauler? Not a fan personally though I understand the sentimental value, but look at it. Those hitboxes make the Awesome look anorexic. It will live and die by its quirks and no 'Mech should have to rely on quirks so heavily.

I do think quirk creep is not helping here either, but that is another topic.

Excellent analysis.

I suppose the Lancelot is the best candidate for next IS heavy mech, unless they do a time jump. That's a cool mech: crazy fast (for a heavy), with 2 energy boats (one jump-capable) and one dual ballistics (Cataphact 4X style). It is also visually striking, something like a cross of between the Black Jack and the Black Knight.

As much as I would love the Guillotine, it is pretty much a Grasshopper.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 02 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Excellent analysis.

I suppose the Lancelot is the best candidate for next IS heavy mech, unless they do a time jump. That's a cool mech: crazy fast (for a heavy), with 2 energy boats (one jump-capable) and one dual ballistics (Cataphact 4X style). It is also visually striking, something like a cross of between the Black Jack and the Black Knight.

As much as I would love the Guillotine, it is pretty much a Grasshopper.

I respectfully disagree, in that the next Heavy 'Mech should be the Champion rather than the Lancelot.

The Champion is also fast for a Heavy 'Mech (86 kph for the CHP, versus 97 kph for the LNC & 64 kph for "more typical" Heavy 'Mechs) and visually striking ("airplane on legs"!), and is capable of much more varied loadouts (as all three timeline-appropriate variants - the CHP-1N, the CHP-1N2, and the CHP-2N - carry all three weapon types).

Example CHP-1N
LT: x2 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example CHP-1N2
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x3 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Double Heat Sinks

Example CHP-2N
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 AC/10)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x2 missile (x1 SRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

For similar reasons, the 40-ton Sentinel - with its STN-3L, STN-3K, STN-3M, and possibly STN-3KA variants - should be the next Medium 'Mech.

Example STN-3L
LA: x2 ballistic (x1 UAC/5)
RT: x1 energy (x1 Small Laser), x2 missile (x1 SSRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example STN-3K
LA: x1 ballistic (x1 AC/5)
RT: x2 energy (x1 Small Laser), x2 missile (x1 SRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (70% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example STN-3M
LA: x2 ballistic (x1 UAC/5)
RT: x2 energy (x1 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 SRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example STN-3KA (optional?)
LA: x2 energy (x1 Large Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x1 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 SRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (93% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 02 May 2015 - 07:43 PM.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 02 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

I respectfully disagree, in that the next Heavy 'Mech should be the Champion rather than the Lancelot.

The Champion is also fast for a Heavy 'Mech (86 kph for the CHP, versus 97 kph for the LNC & 64 kph for "more typical" Heavy 'Mechs) and visually striking ("airplane on legs"!), and is capable of much more varied loadouts (as all three timeline-appropriate variants - the CHP-1N, the CHP-1N2, and the CHP-2N - carry all three weapon types).

Example CHP-1N
LT: x2 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example CHP-1N2
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x3 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Double Heat Sinks

Example CHP-2N
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 AC/10)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x2 missile (x1 SRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

For similar reasons, the 40-ton Sentinel - with its STN-3L, STN-3K, STN-3M, and possibly STN-3KA variants - should be the next Medium 'Mech.

Example STN-3L
LA: x2 ballistic (x1 UAC/5)
RT: x1 energy (x1 Small Laser), x2 missile (x1 SSRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example STN-3K
LA: x1 ballistic (x1 AC/5)
RT: x2 energy (x1 Small Laser), x2 missile (x1 SRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (70% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example STN-3M
LA: x2 ballistic (x1 UAC/5)
RT: x2 energy (x1 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 SSRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example STN-3KA (optional?)
LA: x2 energy (x1 Large Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x1 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 SSRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (93% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Thoughts?

The worst thing in the Champion it's the name, which is used for the.. well, champion mechs. Fancy a champion Champion?

Besides, it is still too similar to the Dragon in everything, except looks (yes, it looks amazing).

[Nathan Foxbane]

Strum Wealh, on 02 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

Example STN-3M
LA: x2 ballistic (x1 UAC/5)
RT: x2 energy (x1 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 SRM-2)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 240 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

FTFY

Strum Wealh, on 02 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

I respectfully disagree, in that the next Heavy 'Mech should be the Champion rather than the Lancelot.

The Champion is also fast for a Heavy 'Mech (86 kph for the CHP, versus 97 kph for the LNC & 64 kph for "more typical" Heavy 'Mechs) and visually striking ("airplane on legs"!), and is capable of much more varied loadouts (as all three timeline-appropriate variants - the CHP-1N, the CHP-1N2, and the CHP-2N - carry all three weapon types).

Example CHP-1N
LT: x2 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example CHP-1N2
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x3 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Double Heat Sinks

Example CHP-2N
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 AC/10)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x2 missile (x1 SRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Aesthetically and technically the Champion is an interesting design. The fighter craft torso and arms along with the emphasis on speed and firepower over armor make for a more interesting 'Mech. I doubt it will be overly popular unless given a generous torso twist range and speed since all its weapons are side torso mounted. It is also a rather broad 'Mech; and while the torso is vertically compact those "wings" may lead to some pilots getting hung up on terrain they normally would not otherwise. Leading to longer exposure times to get good shots in vertically dense terrain like cities. It is the most hardpoint type diverse of the potential candidates across all its variants (which are for MWO purposes effectively identical). Going from pure hardpoints the Merlin MLN-1A might be considered superior (depending on how you rate twin CT energy, overall hardpoint location, and engine cap), but it lives up to the designer's intent of being specifically merc friendly, making forgettably generic from a visual perspective. Granted few pilots will forget either 'Mech the first time they encounter one boasting an AC/20.

The really sad part is as a pure 'Mech vs. 'Mech combat game MWO makes many otherwise useful chassis sub par. If there were infantry packing infernos crawling all over river city and vehicles lurking around every corner, many of the Locusts would be extremely desirable 'Mechs and MGs and Flamers (which are equally devastating to vehicles and infantry) would have a very important place in a 'Mech's arsenal. Nothing quite makes a pilot beg to be bathed in friendly MG and Flamer fire like being swarmed by Elementals or anti-'Mech infantry packing satchel charges. Nothing also makes infantry happier than a 'Mech which can be Johnny-on-the-spot when they are being suppressed by enemy infantry and light vehicles.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 02 May 2015 - 07:36 PM.