20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

But how PGI implemented MASC must mean something. Only 10% speed boost for light mechs? They must have a MASC light mech planned: maybe the Flea or even the Fire Moth (which is now possible?).

God, as much as I want to pilot a Fire Falcon, seeing the Fire Moth instead as the Clan Wave IV light mech would be terrific.

"Dream Team" Clan Wave IV:
- Fire Moth
- Black Lanner
- Night Gyr
- Turkina
(would buy a Top Tier for sure, even if these 120 dollars worths really a fortune in my country)

[Ovion]

Odanan, on 22 June 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

But how PGI implemented MASC must mean something. Only 10% speed boost for light mechs? They must have a MASC light mech planned: maybe the Flea or even the Fire Moth (which is now possible?).

I don't know, but as-is, MASC on light mechs is effectively worthless, providing less of a bonus to speed than simply taking a larger engine.

The Flea for example, will have a max speed of 151.5KPH, +15.2KPH (for 166.7kph), and a boost to turning, stopping, starting.
Right, fine.
That costs you 9T and 24 Slots (with DHS - 17 with SHS).

The Locust however, can take an XL190, which gives you a permament 169.3KPH, with (less, but still) improved turning, mobility, etc.
That's a perm +17.8KPH for 9T and 21 Slots (15 with SHS) AND provides better cooling.

Both with have the same base Chasis + Armour weight of 4T, meaning both will have 7T free.

Previously, you could argue for taking a slightly lower engine, using a heavier weapons loadout (8-9T even) on the Flea to allow for a heavier, tiny platform with the ability to rapidly redeploy, as MASC could provide a better boost for the weight.
(Infact, an XL145 would have been sufficient to hit max speed with MASC, allowing you 7.5T to play with, or even a 125, for 8T).

Now though, at a 145, that's a MASC speed of 142.1kph.
For 7.5T free, and 1 free slot.
Meaning you have to go SHS (to keep tonnage) or drop FF (losing the tonnage, you're now back to 7T free).

I simply don't know what it can do now, that the Locust can't do better, for the same weight, a similar size, and a similar model.

[Odanan]

Ovion, on 22 June 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

[Flea bashing]

Agreed, as it is, MASC doesn't worth the adding of the Flea into the game.

So, let's bury the Flea and say hello to the Fire Moth.

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 22 June 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Agreed, as it is, MASC doesn't worth the adding of the Flea into the game.

So, let's bury the Flea and say hello to the Fire Moth.

NNNOOOOOOO!!!!!

The Flea will not go quietly into the night! Alex has artwork that deserves better (depending on your opinion of the in-game models based off his work, IMO, I love them all)!

#freecn9-ah -- mission accomplished
#neverforget -- we are very close

#fleaday -- We will do eeet!

[Ovion]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I do like the flea, I like 20T mechs in general - I'll likely get one or two in tabletop if I can find it for a sensible price. (already have what... 4-5 Locusts, and 3-4 other 20T mechs)...

But sadly, I can't find an argument for it anymore.

[Y E O N N E]

Odanan, on 22 June 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Agreed, as it is, MASC doesn't worth the adding of the Flea into the game.

So, let's bury the Flea and say hello to the Fire Moth.

No u.

Raptor.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Odanan, on 22 June 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Agreed, as it is, MASC doesn't worth the adding of the Flea into the game.

So, let's bury the Flea and say hello to the Fire Moth.

I for one, welcome our 20 ton, 216 kph, ECM, 2 MG, 4 ER SL, hit-reg ignoring, Clan overlords.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Well, I'll say this.

I didn't see a need for the Urbanmech a long time ago either. It didn't seem like a mech that fit in well in MWO and it seemed pointless.

Well, I eventually warmed up to it (mostly due to Bishop's constant rallying and artwork). I even helped fund it while thinking I'd never play it, but treat it as an oddity, looking at it in the Mechbay from time to time.

Well, I was wrong. I enjoy the little Trashcan and it is one of my favorite light mech now. High mount arms, 360° torso, small stature, and big weapons. Never mind it being slow, fire support doesn't need blinding speed. The thing is a trip.

TL;DR. I might very well be wrong about the Flea. I don't see a point in it now, but I have made that same mistake about other mechs as well. If enough peoe can convince PGI it is worth it (and potentially raise the funds), I see no reason why it shouldn't be in MWO. Heck, it will probably surprise me too.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 June 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[Ovion]

Thing is, the Urbanmech is rather different to other lights.

It's designed around Heavy Ballistics and firesupport - the next closest is the Panther and Clan Mechs.
It's also pretty iconic, and quite different aesthetically.

The Flea was the replacement for the Locust when it became Unseen.
Hence why it's pretty similar.
It was always the poor mans Locust, and its main saving grace was MASC making it potentially faster than the Locust.
Now that option is gone, and MASC is useless, and aesthetically it's pretty similar (because of the above).
Now, I'd still buy it, I'd likely enjoy it - but the Locust will still be superior in every way.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 22 June 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Well, I'll say this.

I didn't see a need for the Urbanmech a long time ago either. It didn't seem like a mech that fit in well in MWO and it seemed pointless.

Well, I eventually warmed up to it (mostly due to Bishop's constant rallying and artwork). I even helped fund it while thinking I'd never play it, but treat it as an oddity, looking at it in the Mechbay from time to time.

Well, I was wrong. I enjoy the little Trashcan and it is one of my favorite light mech now. High mount arms, 360° torso, small stature, and big weapons. Never mind it being slow, fire support doesn't need blinding speed. The thing is a trip.

TL;DR. I might very well be wrong about the Flea. I don't see a point in it now, but I have made that same mistake about other mechs as well. If enough peoe can convince PGI it is worth it (and potentially raise the funds), I see no reason why it shouldn't be in MWO. Heck, it will probably surprise me too.

you welcome, sir, lol!

[bad arcade kitty]

MeiSooHaityu, on 22 June 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Well, I'll say this.

I didn't see a need for the Urbanmech a long time ago either. It didn't seem like a mech that fit in well in MWO and it seemed pointless.

Well, I eventually warmed up to it (mostly due to Bishop's constant rallying and artwork). I even helped fund it while thinking I'd never play it, but treat it as an oddity, looking at it in the Mechbay from time to time.

Well, I was wrong. I enjoy the little Trashcan and it is one of my favorite light mech now. High mount arms, 360° torso, small stature, and big weapons. Never mind it being slow, fire support doesn't need blinding speed. The thing is a trip.

TL;DR. I might very well be wrong about the Flea. I don't see a point in it now, but I have made that same mistake about other mechs as well. If enough peoe can convince PGI it is worth it (and potentially raise the funds), I see no reason why it shouldn't be in MWO. Heck, it will probably surprise me too.

there is a difference here

you were skeptical of it because:

a ) you didn't realize how well it can be refit with mwo mechlab

b ) urbi (as well as panther, kit fox, adder) needs a different tactic to play, which was uncommon to you

now, b ) isn't related to flea, it has the same tactic as locust, firestarter and other fast lights, and as for a ) it seems its refitting possibility will be lower than what you can do to locust, and even quirks probably won't help there since locust has some pretty strong energy quirks already. i dunno, may be a ppc velocity quirk for flea?

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 22 June 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

I'd like to see the Javelin as the next I.S Light, though the Flea would seem to involve the least production
Assassin or Dervish for medium
Hammerhands for Heavy
Cyclops for Assault

[Uncle Totty]

Nathan Foxbane, on 22 June 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

I for one, welcome our 20 ton, 216 kph, ECM, 2 MG, 4 ER SL, hit-reg ignoring, Clan overlords.

Fire Moth: "Where is your Firestarter NOW?!"

[Waffles 2pt0]

With the MASC on the Flea, wouldn't it be optional? Not fixed. Then it wouldn't HAVE to be taken, and the extra tonnage could be applied towards a larger engine as stated above.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hussar for Light

Vulcan or Assassin for Medium

Bombardier (aka Ghetto Archer, bite me HG!) for Heavy

Gunslinger for Assault.
(Super high Quad energy mounts, ala BLR, Dual Gauss arms, JJs and ECM. Yes please!)

[Ovion]

S Morgenstern, on 22 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

With the MASC on the Flea, wouldn't it be optional? Not fixed. Then it wouldn't HAVE to be taken, and the extra tonnage could be applied towards a larger engine as stated above.

Except, due to the engine rules, it'll cap out at a 170.
All the numbers above use 170's.

So yes, you can remove the MASC for +1T, +1S, but you're still limited to a max speed of 151.5kph.

This gives you (using ES, FF and optimal armour - max, with 5 LA/RA, 1H), 8T free

This is the 'optimal' base build for a flea: LCT-1E
-1T, -1S for +MASC if you take it.

Flea Variants we could have are:
4E (poor mans PB/1E/3M)
5E (poor mans 1E/3M)
5E, 2B (Poor mans PB, but still interesting for the possibility of 5xSPL, 2MG)

[Strum Wealh]

Resistance III: pill/pod body edition!
Light: Flea
Medium: Sentinel
Heavy: Champion
Assault: Longbow (MW4 version or Dark Age version)

[CDLord HHGD]

Strum Wealh, on 22 June 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Resistance III: pill/pod body edition!
Light: Flea
Medium: Sentinel
Heavy: Champion
Assault: Longbow (MW4 version or Dark Age version)

SOLD!

Dammit, I said no more money.... Oh well......

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 June 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Hussar for Light

Vulcan or Assassin for Medium

Bombardier (aka Ghetto Archer, bite me HG!) for Heavy

Gunslinger for Assault.
(Super high Quad energy mounts, ala BLR, Dual Gauss arms, JJs and ECM. Yes please!)

• Hussar? horrible hardpoints. Imagine some Spiders 5V (and without jump jets)
  
• Vulcan or Assassin? any would be nice.
  
• Bombardier? Hmmm... PGI would need to create at least one new variant... it's a 10 tons heavier Kintaro, so why not?
  
• Gunslinger? fantastic mech, but only one variant, starting 3053. Since we are picking old mechs, why not the Charger or Crockett?

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 22 June 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

• Hussar? horrible hardpoints. Imagine some Spiders 5V (and without jump jets)
  
• Vulcan or Assassin? any would be nice.
  
• Bombardier? Hmmm... PGI would need to create at least one new variant... it's a 10 tons heavier Kintaro, so why not?
  
• Gunslinger? fantastic mech, but only one variant, starting 3053. Since we are picking old mechs, why not the Charger or Crockett?

Hussar: HArdpoint inflation, and the Royals variant has ECM, the 350D adds arm lasers.

Most important? It has the potential to look amazing.