20517 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Titannium, on 09 November 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

kodiak. i dont care about those ugly unseen/noneseen/reseen.

Ok, so you want the Kodiak.

Any comment on these 4?

[Odanan]

Titannium, on 09 November 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

kodiak. i dont care about those ugly unseen/noneseen/reseen.

I bet it will be the top tier of the next Clan pack. (see my signature)

[SgtMagor]

Kodiak sure, but I always like the original art for it not the one introduced in MW4...

[Strum Wealh]

TheArisen, on 09 November 2015 - 03:14 AM, said:

The Naginta is 3055, the Cerberus is 3054, Albatross is 3053. The Nightstar could be explained away by there being some left, it doesn't say it went extinct. We do have the Highlander & KC in game. So the Naginta is the farthest out of the timeline, from what I can tell.

"The SLDF High Command commissioned GM BattleMechs and Norse-Storm to design a heavy support 'Mech, and after eight months of intense work the companies put the Nightstar into production. Unfortunately, the 'Mech became a casualty of the Succession Wars. Three months after the First Succession War began, Norse-Storm's primary production facility for the Nightstar was destroyed by Marik troops. At the same time, several members of the GM design team died in a freak accident at GM's plant on Kathil. Two hundred and fifty years would pass before GM and Norse-Storm recovered enough technological expertise to put the Nightstar back into production." - TRO 3058 (reproduced here)

The Highlander and the King Crab remained at some level of production during the Succession Wars, as evidenced by the development & deployment of the low-tech Succession Wars variants (the HGN-733 (along with the 733C and 733P sub-variants) for the Highlander, and the KGC-0000 for the King Crab). The Nightstar was not so fortunate, being completely lost to the Inner Sphere until GM BattleMechs & Norse-Storm BattleMechs resumed production in 3058.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 09 November 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

"The SLDF High Command commissioned GM BattleMechs and Norse-Storm to design a heavy support 'Mech, and after eight months of intense work the companies put the Nightstar into production. Unfortunately, the 'Mech became a casualty of the Succession Wars. Three months after the First Succession War began, Norse-Storm's primary production facility for the Nightstar was destroyed by Marik troops. At the same time, several members of the GM design team died in a freak accident at GM's plant on Kathil. Two hundred and fifty years would pass before GM and Norse-Storm recovered enough technological expertise to put the Nightstar back into production." - TRO 3058 (reproduced here)

The Highlander and the King Crab remained at some level of production during the Succession Wars, as evidenced by the development & deployment of the low-tech Succession Wars variants (the HGN-733 (along with the 733C and 733P sub-variants) for the Highlander, and the KGC-0000 for the King Crab). The Nightstar was not so fortunate, being completely lost to the Inner Sphere until GM BattleMechs & Norse-Storm BattleMechs resumed production in 3058.

well, to do a Strum to ya....
cas·u·al·ty
ˈkaZH(əw)əltē/
noun
a person killed or injured in a war or accident.
synonyms: victim, fatality, loss, MIA; More
a person or thing badly affected by an event or situation.
"the building industry has been one of the casualties of the recession"
synonyms: victim, fatality, loss, MIA; More
(chiefly in insurance) an accident, mishap, or disaster.

So, it doesn't say, like some texts do that every one was destroyed, orr the mech was extinct. Casualty could imply that, or that the destruction of the Plant left them wounded, unable to replace stuff, and so only a handful of probably shoddy example survive to date.

Plus all that only stands until they retcon it again, like the Highlander (which was also extinct and out of production until 3057, originally, until CGL retconned them into an earlier reintroduction. Probably to explain Davis McCall having one), and others.

Of course you could be right and it could be extinct. I don't care either way, and am admittedly playing devils advocate with circumstantial wording.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 November 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 November 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

well, to do a Strum to ya....
cas·u·al·ty
ˈkaZH(əw)əltē/
noun
a person killed or injured in a war or accident.
synonyms: victim, fatality, loss, MIA; More
a person or thing badly affected by an event or situation.
"the building industry has been one of the casualties of the recession"
synonyms: victim, fatality, loss, MIA; More
(chiefly in insurance) an accident, mishap, or disaster.

So, it doesn't say, like some texts do that every one was destroyed, orr the mech was extinct. Casualty could imply that, or that the destruction of the Plant left them wounded, unable to replace stuff, and so only a handful of probably shoddy example survive to date.

Plus all that only stands until they retcon it again, like the Highlander (which was also extinct and out of production until 3057, originally, until CGL retconned them into an earlier reintroduction. Probably to explain Davis McCall having one), and others.

Of course you could be right and it could be extinct. I don't care either way, and am admittedly playing devils advocate with circumstantial wording.

I admit that wording was my justification. The Nightstar is my first choice.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 November 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Plus all that only stands until they retcon it again, like the Highlander (which was also extinct and out of production until 3057, originally, until CGL retconned them into an earlier reintroduction. Probably to explain Davis McCall having one), and others.

That particular retcon was actually FASA, rather than CGL - the HGN-733 originally appeared in TRO 3025 Revised in 1996, right after the whole mess with HG & the Unseen.

Bishop Steiner, on 09 November 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

So, it doesn't say, like some texts do that every one was destroyed, orr the mech was extinct. Casualty could imply that, or that the destruction of the Plant left them wounded, unable to replace stuff, and so only a handful of probably shoddy example survive to date.

However, the combination of the destruction of the production plant, the nearly simultaneous deaths of every member of the design team, the lack of a low-tech Succession Wars variant (which would be the "shoddy surviving examples" you mentioned) - or any other variant predating 3057 - and a lack of mention in TRO 3050 or TRO 3055 strongly point to there being no operational Nightstars between the First Succession War and the resumption of production the late 3050s.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 09 November 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

That particular retcon was actually FASA, rather than CGL - the HGN-733 originally appeared in TRO 3025 Revised in 1996, right after the whole mess with HG & the Unseen.


However, the combination of the destruction of the production plant, the nearly simultaneous deaths of every member of the design team, the lack of a low-tech Succession Wars variant (which would be the "shoddy surviving examples" you mentioned) - or any other variant predating 3057 - and a lack of mention in TRO 3050 or TRO 3055 strongly point to there being no operational Nightstars between the First Succession War and the resumption of production the late 3050s.

"Strongly points to", your honor.


Lot of mechs weren't in earlier TROs. 2750 mechs only got added because they needed filler for 3025, 3050. Yet several mechs from the various TROs had surviving examples. Originally there weren't surviving examples of the 2750 mechs, either.

Meh.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 November 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

"Strongly points to", your honor.


Lot of mechs weren't in earlier TROs. 2750 mechs only got added because they needed filler for 3025, 3050. Yet several mechs from the various TROs had surviving examples. Originally there weren't surviving examples of the 2750 mechs, either.

Meh.

Then, let's consider the opposite argument - is there anything in current BattleTech canon that does point to there being Nightstars in active service, or in production, between the First Succession War and the late 3050s?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 09 November 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 09 November 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Then, let's consider the opposite argument - is there anything in current BattleTech canon that does point to there being Nightstars in active service, or in production, between the First Succession War and the late 3050s?

argumentum ad ignorantiam, ad infintium, lol

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 November 2015 - 02:26 PM.

[TheArisen]

Even if there aren't any operational Nightstars, it's still fine on the list because technically all 4 mechs are out of timeline.

I'd just say they were rare and call it good. Even with the retcon stuff we have mech variants that were rare or just prototypes. Ecm phract being a good example.

[CDLord HHGD]

Could it be stated that as long as the tech cap is adhered to (as much as it is now anyways) that it no longer matters what year a mech was released? I'd really like a Legionnaire so why not just convert it's loadout to something that works for MWO?

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 09 November 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Could it be stated that as long as the tech cap is adhered to (as much as it is now anyways) that it no longer matters what year a mech was released? I'd really like a Legionnaire so why not just convert it's loadout to something that works for MWO?

but Legionnaires need RACs......

[Virlutris]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 November 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

but Legionnaires need RACs......

And those don't develop until the 3060's

[Bishop Steiner]

Virlutris, on 09 November 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

And those don't develop until the 3060's

but I do want them.... just willing to wait a tick....like til Battletech gets open....then they can advance this all they want....if it's still fun, I'll play.... if not, I'll have my 3025 turn based game, at least.

[TheArisen]

Putting the timeline talk aside, which of these 4 mechs would be the best addition to MWO?

[Bishop Steiner]

TheArisen, on 09 November 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Putting the timeline talk aside, which of these 4 mechs would be the best addition to MWO?

most versatile is probably the Albatross.

My question is, if people are debating these mechs... why not the Gunslinger?

It's well armored, jumps, has dual gauss (which while lacking in height are able to traverse side to side, fully), Four Super High Energy Hardpoints, and both ECM/BAP standard.

Not as cool looking as the Cerberus, Nightstar or especially the Albatross... but who cares?

Also, the Grand Titan and Devastator and Pillager are of the same era....why not one of them?

[Hollow Earth]

And it's head looks like the front deck of a boat

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 November 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

most versatile is probably the Albatross.

My question is, if people are debating these mechs... why not the Gunslinger?

It's well armored, jumps, has dual gauss (which while lacking in height are able to traverse side to side, fully), Four Super High Energy Hardpoints, and both ECM/BAP standard.

Not as cool looking as the Cerberus, Nightstar or especially the Albatross... but who cares?

Also, the Grand Titan and Devastator and Pillager are of the same era....why not one of them?

I believe he chose those 4 mechs because of the weight (95 tons). Not that I care for that (I would rather have more 40 tonners in the game).

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 09 November 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Putting the timeline talk aside, which of these 4 mechs would be the best addition to MWO?

Not the Naginata (unless there is a very good implementation for the C3 computer) - besides, assault LRM boats, specially larger than 85 tons, are a waste;
Albatross < Atlas;
Nightstar = interesting weapon configuration, weird mech looks (and that's a good thing), but too far fetched for your timeline.
Cerberus = not bad at all, even if I'm a little tired of assault humanoids.