20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

I'd like to see something more along the lines of these:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coyotl
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lupus

Call it "The first ones" or something along those lines...

I mean how can you say no this this...

Look at those high mounts!

make a third version that has a UAC 5 in the RT like the Marauder with LRM 10 in the left, like the picture, and an ERML in each arm... she'd be perfect.... And at 40T she fills a weight gap, and being a 7/11 is respectable too.

Looks good, but the Viper is still a strong candidate for the 40 tons slot... legs already done (same as Nova's), faster, more hardpoints and with both ES and FF. The only problem is the Viper has a lot (8) of locked jumpjets.

[Virlutris]

Strum Wealh, on 31 December 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

It's really a simple system of equations, to determine the speed of any 'Mech with any Engine:
1 TT Movement Point = 1 Hex per Turn = 30 meters per 10 seconds = 3 meters per second = 10.8 kilometers per hour.
Speed Tweak will (as of 12/01/2015) add a 7.5% speed bonus when enabled (see here).

• Walking/Cruise speed:
  
  • Without Speed Tweak: 10.8 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
    
  • With Speed Tweak: 1.075 *10.8 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
• Running/Flank Speed:
  
  • Without Speed Tweak: 10.8 * 1.5 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
    
  • With Speed Tweak: 1.075 * 10.8 * 1.5 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))

MASC will (as of 06/16/2015) add a 10%-20% speed bonus when installed and active, depending on the size/type of MASC unit installed. (see here), rather than simply doubling the 'Mech's walking speed (as it does in the BattleTech TT game).

The reason the Daishi has a base running speed of 48.6 kph rather than 54.0 kph is that 1.5 * (300/100) = 4.5 MP, and MWO does not round that result up to 5 MP like the BattleTech TT game does.
This is going to be the same for any 'Mech where dividing the stock Engine rating by the 'Mech's tonnage results in an odd number for its walking MP.

The Dasher is a 20-ton 'Mech with a XL 200 Engine, and would come with a fixed "Clan MASC MK I" (which would provide a 10% speed bonus).
Its top speed (running speed with MASC active & speed tweak enabled) would be:
1.10 * 1.075 * 10.8 * 1.5 * (200/20) = 191.565 kph

Skyrider's results are still correct, even if his original method was more roundabout than was needed.

Did some maths based on this, and figured that with a negative top speed quirk added, we can get the Firemoth at/under the old speed limit of 171 kph for a max-engine TDK with 10 pct speed tweek.

If we can buff the Summoner's top speed, why can't we "cheat" and actually use a top speed nerf for the Firemoth to bring about something good?

If we play out the math to 162/174.15 kph (7.5 pct tweek) or 162/178.2 kph (10 pct tweek), they're close-ish.

If we apply a 2 or 3.5 pct nega-quirk to top speed, this reduces it to 158.76/171.072 kph (7.5 pct tweek, 2 pct nerf) or 156.33/171.072 (10 pct tweek, 3.5 pct nerf).

Hopefully, I've done the math adequately. I didn't want to fight punching it all in from my mobile phone.

Sound playable?

Edit: assumes no MASC

Edited by Virlutris, 08 January 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 08 January 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

Looks good, but the Viper is still a strong candidate for the 40 tons slot... legs already done (same as Nova's), faster, more hardpoints and with both ES and FF. The only problem is the Viper has a lot (8) of locked jumpjets.

Yup, but the weight differance between a 280 and a 320xl is alot, and limits what the mech can carry for not a lot of speed advantage... I'd rather take a 7/11 than an 8/12, on top of that the Coyotl has 7 JJ's in the A configuration, so entirely optional (1 CT, 2 RT, 2 LT, 1 LL, 1 RL).

Coyotl has 15t (11.5t in the A) of pod space

Viper has 8.5t of pod space.


Coyotl has high mounts (cockpit level or higher, in all but the A CT, has a MPL in the ct)

Viper is all low slung

Edited by Metus regem, 08 January 2016 - 11:27 AM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

Yup, but the weight differance between a 280 and a 320xl is alot, and limits what the mech can carry for not a lot of speed advantage... I'd rather take a 7/11 than an 8/12, on top of that the Coyotl has 7 JJ's in the A configuration, so entirely optional (1 CT, 2 RT, 2 LT, 1 LL, 1 RL).

Coyotl has 15t (11.5t in the A) of pod space

Viper has 8.5t of pod space.


Coyotl has high mounts (cockpit level or higher, in all but the A CT, has a MPL in the ct)

Viper is all low slung

So the Viper is anti meta then? Makes it even more desirable.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

Yup, but the weight differance between a 280 and a 320xl is alot, and limits what the mech can carry for not a lot of speed advantage... I'd rather take a 7/11 than an 8/12, on top of that the Coyotl has 7 JJ's in the A configuration, so entirely optional (1 CT, 2 RT, 2 LT, 1 LL, 1 RL).

Coyotl has 15t (11.5t in the A) of pod space

Viper has 8.5t of pod space.


Coyotl has high mounts (cockpit level or higher, in all but the A CT, has a MPL in the ct)

Viper is all low slung

yes but Viper can pack 7 8 (maybe more) energy when you mix and match, and we all know that is all that matters anymore. The only question is what flavor of vomit you want.
2x E (prime RA)
2x E (Alpha RT)
2x E (Alpha LT)
2x E (Charlie LA)

Also, it's torso design would make torso points reasonably high, and the Alpha has 4x E Hardpoints in the torsos.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 January 2016 - 11:39 AM.

[Metus regem]

Nathan Foxbane, on 08 January 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

So the Viper is anti meta then? Makes it even more desirable.

Not really... variants A through D are energy focused, likely due to the limited pod space. the Viper would have a classic clan mech problem of vastly over-sized engine (320xl) for we weight, like 4.5t more than a reasonable 280xl, on top of that, she has 4t locked in JJ's as they are in every configuration...

As I pointed out the Coyotl, that is the same weight, with 8.5t of standard armour not FF, has almost double the pod space of the Viper....

[Virlutris]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

yes but Viper can pack 7 8 (maybe more) energy when you mix and match, and we all know that is all that matters anymore. The only question is what flavor of vomit you want.
2x E (prime RA)
2x E (Alpha RT)
2x E (Alpha LT)
2x E (Charlie LA)

Also, it's torso design would make torso points reasonably high, and the Alpha has 4x E Hardpoints in the torsos.

Bishop Steiner: Boating Energy like a BOSS!

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

yes but Viper can pack 7 8 (maybe more) energy when you mix and match, and we all know that is all that matters anymore. The only question is what flavor of vomit you want.
2x E (prime RA)
2x E (Alpha RT)
2x E (Alpha LT)
2x E (Charlie LA)

Also, it's torso design would make torso points reasonably high, and the Alpha has 4x E Hardpoints in the torsos.

But the last thing we need is more laser vomit, with the Coyotl, we'd get some variety due to the pod space...

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Not really... variants A through D are energy focused, likely due to the limited pod space. the Viper would have a classic clan mech problem of vastly over-sized engine (320xl) for we weight, like 4.5t more than a reasonable 280xl, on top of that, she has 4t locked in JJ's as they are in every configuration...

As I pointed out the Coyotl, that is the same weight, with 8.5t of standard armour not FF, has almost double the pod space of the Viper....

http://www.solaris7....Info.asp?ID=921
my pick of clan 40 tonners, personally.

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

But the last thing we need is more laser vomit, with the Coyotl, we'd get some variety due to the pod space...

No, what we need is MOAR vomit. The Meta has spoken. Infidel.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

http://www.solaris7....Info.asp?ID=921
my pick of clan 40 tonners, personally.


No, what we need is MOAR vomit. The Meta has spoken. Infidel.

That I could get behind.

[Odanan]

Prosperity Park, on 08 January 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Yeah, but if you take a chickenwalker to forest colony, then there's a good chance you'll get your head smashed-in by a couple suspended logs or get ripped out of your cockpit by a wookie.

Wookie or Ewok?

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 08 January 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Wookie or Ewok?

Wookie if we are talking about tossing ATST jocks out of their ride.

Ewoks for creative smashing techniques.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

http://www.solaris7....Info.asp?ID=921
my pick of clan 40 tonners, personally.

Too slow (would even prefer the Coyotl). In MWO, speed is life.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 08 January 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Too slow (would even prefer the Coyotl). In MWO, speed is life.

speed is fine for a medium with JJs, depending on size and hitboxes.

All the fast options simply feed back to the same boring laservomit.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

speed is fine for a medium with JJs, depending on size and hitboxes.

All the fast options simply feed back to the same boring laservomit.

At least you can get 5x ER ML + 4x Machineguns on it.

[TheArisen]

The thing about 40 tonners is they're at weird weight. Not really a medium but not a light either.

Would any of these 40 tonners outmatch an Arctic Cheetah?

[Metus regem]

TheArisen, on 08 January 2016 - 10:24 PM, said:

The thing about 40 tonners is they're at weird weight. Not really a medium but not a light either.

Would any of these 40 tonners outmatch an Arctic Cheetah?

15 tests Coyotl Prime vs Arctic Cheetah C, almost same BV, Coyotl won 66% (10 times) of the matches, only two were by head shots (TT games, run in a hands off Battle simulator on my phone, Mech Factory is the app).

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 10:36 PM, said:

15 tests Coyotl Prime vs Arctic Cheetah C, almost same BV, Coyotl won 66% (10 times) of the matches, only two were by head shots (TT games, run in a hands off Battle simulator on my phone, Mech Factory is the app).

Yes, but TT doesn't have lag shield (or tiny hitboxes). In MWO, speed is also a major factor.

Edited by Odanan, 09 January 2016 - 03:37 AM.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 09 January 2016 - 03:37 AM, said:

Yes, but TT doesn't have lag shield (or tiny hitboxes). In MWO, speed is also a major factor.

All true, but the only way to test mechs that are not in game is through TT, and hope they make it in, with PGI getting the hit boxes right.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 09 January 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

All true, but the only way to test mechs that are not in game is through TT, and hope they make it in, with PGI getting the hit boxes right.

The problem is not bugged hitboxes, but how smaller the light mechs are in MWO. It is much easier to hit an Atlas than a Spider (even with both not moving). In TT all mechs have the same difficulty to hit, no mater the weight.

Edited by Odanan, 09 January 2016 - 10:04 AM.
typo