20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 02 June 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well back to the HBS battletech game..

Just did a match, and I can say with out a doubt, an Orion on the high ground is boderline OP.

Seriously, my Orion killed three of the four mechs I fought.

Treb by head shot
Orion by devistation
Hunchback by devistation

While the only other mech in my lance to kill something was my Hunchback that kicked the CT out of an Urbanmech.

I've got to say, it's got the feel that I wish MWO had, with positioning and mech roles being very important.

You need to play MWO in stock mode. Orion is OP.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 02 June 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

You need to play MWO in stock mode. Orion is OP.

In stock mode, I would've thought the Awesome 8Q or Warhammer 6R would be more OP than an Orion....

As it is I tend to run Super-Stock (Endo/DHS and Up armoured, with the odd engine change, like the 240 to a 250 in my Riflemen) for the most part....

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 02 June 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

No Rifleman and Archer?

They're not a given for release, but that doesn't mean they're not possible. There's been mention of some free mech additions post-release (but not guaranteed free); and I can't imagine they'd pass up on some of the classics. Also, I'm sure more mechs will be involved in expansions as they come out.

Again, to reiterate, it also doesn't guarantee that they won't be in for release, either. If time, money, pipeline, and manpower permit then HBS will be willing to add more mechs to the release roster. The list given is the guaranteed minimum list that they've committed to . . . not an absolute list that cannot expand before release. It just won't shrink.

Odanan, on 02 June 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

I'm aware it's a 3025 game. But knowing HBS, they will probably do 1 or 2 standalone expansions - they will certainly have material for a 3050 (Clan Invasion) and a 3062 (FedCom Civil War) setting. Oh, I will backer all of them.

Given some of the data files already in the beta download (lots of people have been picking it apart already), there already appears to be some data on LBX series autocannons, as well as data on pulse and er lasers (full series, no less, not just Star League stuff).

I'm guessing that they'd be looking to do official expansions to the game that they create, and not just standalone adventures like they did for Shadowrun. After all, for Shadowrun each game was a complete campaign in pretty much different sections of the world . . . for Battletech it's just going to be expanding the timeline and expanding upon the same universe with everything that already exists.

Odanan, on 02 June 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

Hopefully it will bring many new and old fans to the Battletech IP!

Personally, seeing some of the grognards reacting to changes that HBS made to make the game more fluid, fun, and make more sense, I'd rather it bring new fans to Battletech and help encourage a full overhaul of the CBT rules to catch up to the times rather than just let something else stagnate the way TT has for the past 30 years. Some of those old grognard-fans have been throwing all-out tantrums that it's not an exact port of TT rules and "How DARE HBS change some of these terrible mechanics I cling to because I don't want things to change or make for a better game!"

They're treating HBS Battletech about as badly as they treated Alpha Strike when it came out; and for very similar reasons.

Odanan, on 02 June 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Clan Invasion = golden years.

To me, the PRE Clans are the golden years of Battletech. However, I will admit that I enjoy some of the toys of later eras, like the Plasma Rifle/Cannon. That's the funny thing, though, everyone has their own opinion of the best years of Battletech's existence.

More than anything though I'd like to see some of the archaic rules and numbers update to a more streamlined and efficient version of the game. You can easily do that and still keep the flavor/style of Battletech alive. Alpha Strike already showed a great start at that . . . it's just that the grognards treated it terribly and even shouted down anyone supporting it on CGL's own forums (believe me, I know, I was one of them).

[Metus regem]

Sereglach, on 02 June 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

To me, the PRE Clans are the golden years of Battletech. However, I will admit that I enjoy some of the toys of later eras, like the Plasma Rifle/Cannon. That's the funny thing, though, everyone has their own opinion of the best years of Battletech's existence.

More than anything though I'd like to see some of the archaic rules and numbers update to a more streamlined and efficient version of the game. You can easily do that and still keep the flavor/style of Battletech alive. Alpha Strike already showed a great start at that . . . it's just that the grognards treated it terribly and even shouted down anyone supporting it on CGL's own forums (believe me, I know, I was one of them).

My group delt with the Clans in a more interesting way, we reformed them as the SLCF (Star League Crusade Force), turned them into a combined arms force, just gave different army groups (clans) different tactics.

223rd Desert Wolves replaced Clan Wolf
+1 Walk/Run MP in open flat terrain
Double MP cost for forests and elevation changes

7th Mountain Rangers replaced Clan Jade Falcon
All omnimechs have Jump Jets
No units heavier than 60 tons

43rd Urban assault force replaced Clan Smoke Jaguar
No chance of skidding
No mehcs faster than 4/6

121st Arctic Guard replaced Clan Ghost Bear
-5 Heat in cold maps
+10 heat generation in hot maps


The other thing we did was take IS mechs make Omni versions of them while fitting them with IS tech up to civil war era
for instance the version of the Centurion that was used in the SLCF formations:

Spoiler

Centurion CN13-O

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: Unkown
Cost: 7,846,875 C-Bills
Battle Value: 772

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 250 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
22.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 83 points 2.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 3 LT, 2 RT, 4 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: Light Fusion Engine 250 9.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous AV - 169 10.00
Armor Locations: 3 LT, 4 RA

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 16 24
Center Torso (rear) 8
L/R Torso 12 18
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 8 16
L/R Leg 12 24



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime Cost: 8,887,500
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A BV2: 1,301

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Medium Lasers CT 10 2 2.00
MML-5 RT 3 3 3.00
Ultra AC/10 LA 4 7 13.00
@MML-5 (LRM) (24) RT - 1 1.00
@MML-5 (SRM) (20) RT - 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/10 (20) LA - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 10

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 6 Points: 13
5 4 3 2 0 2 0 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: OMNI, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: A Cost: 9,624,844
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A BV2: 1,463

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping MP: 5 (Standard)
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 2.50
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LA
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Small Laser CT 2 1 0.50
MML-5 RT 3 3 3.00
2 Snub-Nose PPCs LA 20 4 12.00
@MML-5 (SRM) (20) RT - 1 1.00

It was things like this that we found made the invasion way more balanced, as well as making way more sense. It didn't make much sense that clans became what they were and developed the tech they did inside of 300 years. They had to settle worlds, form a working government and re-establish their tech base, let alone production facilities.

[Odanan]

Look this Spooky's Wasp!


PGI, please?

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 02 June 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

Look this Spooky's Wasp!


PGI, please?

Very nice to look at. I've liked the CGL Wasp reimaging since I first saw it. I wouldn't mind seeing an MWO version based off of it.

I don't have any of the new Alpha Strike based Combat Manuals, and sadly don't really have a reason to buy any since the gaming group I had around here fell apart (only own the base Alpha Strike Handbook and the Companion book). However, the art and game materials going into them is pretty sweet. It's a pity the game isn't picking up the traction it should. It'd probably help the base Battletech game get the influx of fans, funds, and rules revamp that it needs.

[Sereglach]

So, new roadmap is up; and it looks like gameplay balance is taking a bit of a front-and-center facet in the next few months. Makes you wonder what it'll do to the meta and skill tree meta. On the other hand, I can only hope and pray my precious Flamer is finally addressed from it's terrible state (since energy weapons are first on the table). Link:

https://mwomercs.com...68#entry5771068

Also, it looks like more new civil war mechs to potentially answer some concerns/complaints about the first set. Link:

https://mwomercs.com...-war-escalation

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 02 June 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

Also, it looks like more new civil war mechs to potentially answer some concerns/complaints about the first set. Link:

https://mwomercs.com...-war-escalation

The Arctic Wolf in particular is going to be interesting...three variants have listed locked equipment (ACW-Prime/A/P) and three don't (ACW-1/2/BK). This means that the ACW will be the first (and only?) mech in MWO that has both Omnimech AND Battlemech variants of itself.

Of course, the BM versions will likely be better because of the added customization such as adding FF and getting engines rated over 250 (Omnimech is stuck at 240)...

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 02 June 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

The Arctic Wolf in particular is going to be interesting...three variants have listed locked equipment (ACW-Prime/A/P) and three don't (ACW-1/2/BK). This means that the ACW will be the first (and only?) mech in MWO that has both Omnimech AND Battlemech variants of itself.

Of course, the BM versions will likely be better because of the added customization such as adding FF and getting engines rated over 250 (Omnimech is stuck at 240)...

It's an omnimech and Battlemech in canon. It's an interesting test bed for PGI to try out new things, that's for certain. I find it fascinating they decided to make the hero the Battlemech version instead of an omnimech version. That does limit the Omni pods for the other variants and thereby limits their potential, as well.

[FLG 01]

Sereglach, on 02 June 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

Also, it looks like more new civil war mechs to potentially answer some concerns/complaints about the first set. Link:

https://mwomercs.com...-war-escalation

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that yet another assault was chosen, and a potent one this time, could point in that direction, but who knows?

In the end, I do not care much. Osiris and Nightstar are excellent choices for the IS, even if not my personal top favourites. They promise good performance and actually participated in the FCCW in numbers.
If I had to complain, I'd say it is a little too much FedSuns, but that's really a minor issue (especially as Lyran players are officially allowed rolling FedSuns units during the FCCW and vice versa).

For the IS, it is surely an improvement over the last pack on every conceivable level.

[Odanan]

Osiris and Nova cat = check.

Nightstar = wow!!! Marauder-like 95 tons mech? Will get that for sure! And yes, I will have to pick the reinforcement... :/

Arctic Wolf = didn't see it coming! (but nice surprise)

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 02 June 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

It's an omnimech and Battlemech in canon. It's an interesting test bed for PGI to try out new things, that's for certain. I find it fascinating they decided to make the hero the Battlemech version instead of an omnimech version. That does limit the Omni pods for the other variants and thereby limits their potential, as well.

Ohhh indeed! It has 3 omni and 3 battlemech variants. Cool!

[Pariah Devalis]

Regarding the new pack, objectively speaking?

Very few light mechs will revolutionize that tonnage range right now. Having said that, the IS could have done a hell of a lot worse than what they got. The Osiris could be a fun little mech. Never caught my fancy, but it is a strange bird with decent firepower potential.

Nightstar is basically locked in as a metamech par excellence. Even before the new weapon options. Even if it didn't get access to UAC, Heavy PPC, or what have you, the mech is basically all see-it-shoot-it. The lowest mounted weapon is in the head, and that is only just below the cockpit. Gonna be a scary threat on the fields.

Arctic Wolf is a fantastic choice for a 40-ton Clan option. What the Viper is for speed, the Arctic Wolf is for raw firepower. That said, I think it would be fair to make parallels to the Assassin. It's basically a Clan Assassin, except, being Clan, it has the CXL and half-weight SRM tubes, meaning a higher firepower potential. Alternatively, with ATM, it might be a nice little platform to print damage with. An omni-build that comes to mind involves 2E 5M and either ECM or Jump Jets, your choice. For a 50 ton mech, that's a fantastic set of hardpoints, let alone a 40 ton one. The hero Battlemech is odd, but probably will be best utilized as a heavy laser delivery platform. Maybe 4xHMLas and 2 HMG. Room permits, maybe an ATM3, as well.

As for the Nova Cat, what can I say? Finally a good Clan 70-ton mech? And I mean legitimately good. Not "good in only one or two roles," good. Like the NTG, the NCT will have an assault mech's firepower on a heavy mech's frame. It should be capable of jumping slightly better than the NTG, though slightly worse than the SMN. Arms seem similar to the NTG for relative placement to the cockpit, meaning "high enough" for a poptart, but also high enough to not poptart, too. Not knuckle dragging, anyways. It won't be as good for ballistics as the NTG, but it will be a superior missile, laser, and hybrid build mech. NTG will edge out the NCT in pure dakka, but the NCT will be a more well rounded mech at a 5 ton lighter tonnage point.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 June 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 02 June 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

Ohhh indeed! It has 3 omni and 3 battlemech variants. Cool!

Yeah... Hero is not terribly interesting (bet you it's default build will be... 4x MPL/SPL, 2x HMG, 1xaSRM6

But I love love love that we are getting both Bmech and Omech versions. The Original Battlemach primary should be awesome fun.. and the Primary Omni is like a slower meaner Assassin, I think. Very much looking forward to this.

And IMO, it's literally the best looking Medium Mech Alex has put together.

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

Yeah... Hero is not terribly interesting (bet you it's default build will be... 4x MPL/SPL, 2x HMG, 1xaSRM6

But I love love love that we are getting both Bmech and Omech versions. The Original Battlemach primary should be awesome fun.. and the Primary Omni is like a slower meaner Assassin, I think. Very much looking forward to this.

And IMO, it's literally the best looking Medium Mech Alex has put together.

You say that, but the real reason is that now you get to assassin in your IS account, and clansassin in your Clan account.

[Imperius]

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO ADD A CART OPTION

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 02 June 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

Nightstar is basically locked in as a metamech par excellence. Even before the new weapon options. Even if it didn't get access to UAC, Heavy PPC, or what have you, the mech is basically all see-it-shoot-it. The lowest mounted weapon is in the head, and that is only just below the cockpit. Gonna be a scary threat on the fields.

One bit of "Counter Requiem" to the Nightstar.

It's Torso structure won't differ much from the Mad Cat mkII. It's firepower is made possible by XL engines. It will have an amalgamation of Ebon Jag meets Marauder IIC hitboxes... without the Clan XL.

Yes, it's hardpoints are good, but those STs... likely relegate it to LFE/STD Engines. Which will impact speed/firepower. Mind you the Stalker is STD limited and still can pack a punch, but it's unlikely the Nightstar will have that belnd of speed and firepower that made KDK3s so scary.

It should have slightly better hitboxes than a mkII WITH Missiles, slightly worse than one without.... and no Clan XL.

Just keeping it real.

Pariah Devalis, on 02 June 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

You say that, but the real reason is that now you get to assassin in your IS account, and clansassin in your Clan account.

And because it's proportions are better than the HyMaNs?

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

One bit of "Counter Requiem" to the Nightstar.

It's Torso structure won't differ much from the Mad Cat mkII. It's firepower is made possible by XL engines. It will have an amalgamation of Ebon Jag meets Marauder IIC hitboxes... without the Clan XL.

Yes, it's hardpoints are good, but those STs... likely relegate it to LFE/STD Engines. Which will impact speed/firepower. Mind you the Stalker is STD limited and still can pack a punch, but it's unlikely the Nightstar will have that belnd of speed and firepower that made KDK3s so scary.

It should have slightly better hitboxes than a mkII WITH Missiles, slightly worse than one without.... and no Clan XL.

Just keeping it real.


And because it's proportions are better than the HyMaNs?

PGI has a habit of fattening up their mechs in 3D. I have hope the Nova Cat will gain 5 pounds. What bothers me more is the cockpit. It seems almost too round. Not angled enough. The BT Art, the models, and the toys makes me think of a knight's helmet, similar to, well, the Black Knight. This... not so much.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 June 2017 - 08:58 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 02 June 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

PGI has a habit of fattening up their mechs in 3D. I have hope the Nova Cat will gain 5 pounds. What bothers me more is the cockpit. It seems almost too round. Not angled enough. The BT Art, the models, and the toys makes me think of a knight's helmet, similar to, well, the Black Knight. This... not so much.

It needs to bulk up a tad...the big loss will be probably "whip" PPC Barrels..... and totally agree on the Head. Maybe the Hero will have special Geo since we've seen a slight return to of late.

And... I wan't to love the Osiris, but the fusalage is just too skinny and small.... and the cockpit looks just a little off. Mind you, probably better hitboxes than the original TRO art, but just... loses a bit (IMO) aesthetically.

Still Should be solid. It's fast as heck, can jump and has great hardpoints.

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

One bit of "Counter Requiem" to the Nightstar.

It's Torso structure won't differ much from the Mad Cat mkII. It's firepower is made possible by XL engines. It will have an amalgamation of Ebon Jag meets Marauder IIC hitboxes... without the Clan XL.

Yes, it's hardpoints are good, but those STs... likely relegate it to LFE/STD Engines. Which will impact speed/firepower. Mind you the Stalker is STD limited and still can pack a punch, but it's unlikely the Nightstar will have that belnd of speed and firepower that made KDK3s so scary.

It should have slightly better hitboxes than a mkII WITH Missiles, slightly worse than one without.... and no Clan XL.

Just keeping it real.


And because it's proportions are better than the HyMaNs?

I'm thinking the Nightstar will have Marauder iic hitboxes, basically sides can be vulnerable but it can face up anything.