20517 replies to this topic

[Virlutris]

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

If PGI removes the MASC (and gives that 1 ton to needed armor) the problem is solved. One day, if the speed limit is increased, they can add the MASC back.

That's the biggest component of the solution, removing the ClanTech MASC 1's speed boost from the calculus. The trouble is that people argue "you can't do the mech, because of the MASC, because of the speed limit" at the same time they argue "you can't take away the MASC because muh lorez!1!!one!!!"

Glarg.

Edited by Virlutris, 30 December 2017 - 05:01 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Just change MASC MKI to only be a mobility boost - accel, decel & torso speed. I think the only 'mechs that use it (at least in timeline ones) are the Fire Moth & Solitaire.

[Virlutris]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

Just change MASC MKI to only be a mobility boost - accel, decel & torso speed. I think the only 'mechs that use it (at least in timeline ones) are the Fire Moth & Solitaire.

For reference, I think the Solitaire uses a ClanTech MASC 2.

That's precisely the solution proposed by Pariah Devalis. The 'moth is the only one (we think) that uses the cMASC1. He calls it a "victimless crime."

I think it should also be unlocked so folks can decide if they want to use it under the modified conditions. Potayto, potahto. Let the people have their freedom fries.

Regardless, that MASC speed boost is the first, biggest hurdle. We're not talking about something absurd like a 20-tonner with an XL240 (yes, I'm aware that the Solitaire is a 25-tonner), which simply isn't fixable without a major change to the stock loadout or the stock engine's performance.

Were talking about a mech with an XL200, which requires only a small tweak to bring it inline with the game's speed limit between 170-171kph after speed tweak, and leaves it as the fastest mech in the game stock-unskilled.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Virlutris, on 30 December 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

For reference, I think the Solitaire uses a ClanTech MASC 2.

Regardless, that MASC speed boost is the first, biggest hurdle. We're not talking about something absurd like a 20-tonner with an XL240 (yes, I'm aware that the Solitaire is a 25-tonner), which simply isn't fixable without a major change to the stock loadout or the stock engine's performance.

Were talking about a mech with an XL200, which requires only a small tweak to bring it inline with the game's speed limit between 170-171kph after speed tweak, and leaves it as the fastest mech in the game stock-unskilled.

Are you sure? This is only from Sarna, so it could be incorrect;

Quote

For Inner Sphere 'Mechs, MASC takes up a number of critical spots equal to a 'Mech's tonnage divided by 20, rounded up, and an equal tonnage. For Clan 'Mechs, MASC takes up a number of critical spots equal to a 'Mech's tonnage divided by 25, rounded up, and an equal tonnage.

To me, that reads as MASC MKI for IS is 20 tonners or less, but for Clan it's 25 tonners or less.

The Fire Moth goes 162kph with an XL200
The Solitaire goes 162kph with an XL 250

Wouldn't an "easy" fix be to have a slightly altered Skill Tree for these 2 'mechs?

Less benefit from Speed Tweak, but more benefit from any combination of;
Kinetic Burst
Hard Brake
Torso Speed
Torso Yaw
Torso Pitch
Anchor Turn

It seems fixable, with a little (or a lot, depending on how well the new Skill Tree was developed) effort on the part of PGI.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Virlutris, on 30 December 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Firemoth is delayed only by an unwillingness to employ the technical tools available to overcome the issues bandied about as an excuse for not working to introduce it.

Honestly I wouldn't care about a speed nerf on the mech itself. It's one of the three missing MW:2 mechs that has not been implemented into the game, and now solely the only original clan invasion mech that should have been in ages ago. I don't really buy into the technical limitations as much as PGI not wanting to simply add the mech to the game. Russ should make a poll and just ask "Would you like to have the Firemoth in game but with reduced speed/MASC?" I guarantee a overwhelming majority would vote yes.

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Rifleman IIC will be the Rifleman/JagerMech of the Clans. (and I loved playing with it in MW2)

This is what I've been saying ages ago. I think we all know why it's really getting pushed back though. Someone should make it clear over to Russ the history of why FASA threw this thing in the unseen category, and work around that road block with my Rick Harris artwork approach idea. In that case if HG was stupid enough to bring MW:O's RFL-IIC in court and try to compare it to the Destroid Defender, they would look like tools in front of the judge.

[Odanan]

In 1 or 2 days: next mech. Which do you think it is and which do you want?

I want the Wasp. Or Crusader.

I think it will be the Fafnir. Or Argus.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 31 December 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

In 1 or 2 days: next mech. Which do you think it is and which do you want?

Looking at the single pack 'mechs released (Civil War 'mechs included, since you can buy them individually);
IS Light - 3
IS Medium - 5
IS Heavy - 6
IS Assault - 3
Clan Light - 2
Clan Medium - 4
Clan Heavy - 3 4
Clan Assault - 4

Also looking at the trend of 'mechs released since Civil War;
IS Medium, IS Assault, Clan Light, Clan Assault
IS Light, IS Assault, Clan Medium, Clan Heavy
IS Heavy
IS Medium
Clan Light
Clan Medium
Clan Heavy

It's pretty likely it won't be a Medium 'mech, or a Clan 'mech, or a Heavy 'mech, so an IS Light or Assault. Fafnir, I hope, or the LOLlander.

What I really want, though, even if the Fafnir is one of my most desired 'mechs, is an IS OmniMech. I'd even accept the bottom-of-the-barrel options of Owens, Strider, Perseus or Hauptmann.

[Edit] I forgot the Sun-Spider! [/Edit]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 31 December 2017 - 05:26 PM.

[Metus regem]

Jay Leon Hart, on 31 December 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Looking at the single pack 'mechs released (Civil War 'mechs included, since you can buy them individually);
IS Light - 3
IS Medium - 5
IS Heavy - 6
IS Assault - 3
Clan Light - 2
Clan Medium - 4
Clan Heavy - 3
Clan Assault - 4

Also looking at the trend of 'mechs released since Civil War;
IS Medium, IS Assault, Clan Light, Clan Assault
IS Light, IS Assault, Clan Medium, Clan Heavy
IS Heavy
IS Medium
Clan Light
Clan Medium
Clan Heavy

It's pretty likely it won't be a Medium 'mech, or a Clan 'mech, or a Heavy 'mech, so an IS Light or Assault. Fafnir, I hope, or the LOLlander.

What I really want, though, even if the Fafnir is one of my most desired 'mechs, is an IS OmniMech. I'd even accept the bottom-of-the-barrel options of Owens, Strider, Perseus or Hauptmann.

The Hauptmann isn't that bad, just suffers from a case of SFE-itus.....

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 31 December 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

The Hauptmann isn't that bad, just suffers from a case of SFE-itus.....

Yep. It is basically the IS Dire Wolf: very slow but with a lot of free weight, room and hardpoints.

[Odanan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 31 December 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

What I really want, though, even if the Fafnir is one of my most desired 'mechs, is an IS OmniMech. I'd even accept the bottom-of-the-barrel options of Owens, Strider, Perseus or Hauptmann.

Owens and Strider sadly have locked Single Heat Sinks. That's a disaster, and unless PGI changes it for DHS, they are hopeless.
Perseus is an Orion with locked XL and Endo Steel, so maybe even the Avatar is a better choice.

[Odanan]

There is a way for PGI to redeem the IS omnis: to make them more customizable: change the engine type (not size) and the possibility to upgrade SHS to DHS.

They could even give that same ability to Clan omni mechs: it won't change ANYTHING for the current omnis we have is the game, but will allow the introduction of classics like Battle Cobra, Stooping Hawk, Lupus, Crossbow and Kingfisher.

So PGI could release the most classic IS omni pack: Owens, Strider (or the better Men Shen), Avatar and Sunder.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 01 January 2018 - 04:25 AM, said:

Owens and Strider sadly have locked Single Heat Sinks. That's a disaster, and unless PGI changes it for DHS, they are hopeless.

Locked SHS can be dealt with in the same way as 'mechs like the Kit Fox & Cougar, a "Rate of heat loss" or "Heat dissipation" quirk. Give them enough to have their locked SHS match an equal number of DHS, or just the first 10 if that proves too strong.

No that I want these particular 'mechs, just that I'd settle for even those if it meant getting the Raptor, Men Shen or Black Hawk-KU "soon" !

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 01 January 2018 - 04:37 AM, said:

There is a way for PGI to redeem the IS omnis: to make them more customizable: change the engine type (not size) and the possibility to upgrade SHS to DHS.

They could even give that same ability to Clan omni mechs: it won't change ANYTHING for the current omnis we have is the game, but will allow the introduction of classics like Battle Cobra, Stooping Hawk, Lupus, Crossbow and Kingfisher.

I still stand by my started-as-a-joke idea;
BattleMech XL = IS XL = death on ST loss
OmniMech XL = Clan XL = penalty on ST loss (they're built-in, therefore they're more robust)

Gives OmniMechs another advantage over BattleMechs, makes IS OmniMechs less like deathtraps (especially the Heavy & Assault line-up), rolls back the powercreep introduced by Clan BattleMechs.

Clans may need an LFE then, but baby steps.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 01 January 2018 - 04:25 AM, said:

Perseus is an Orion with locked XL and Endo Steel, so maybe even the Avatar is a better choice.

I'm not sure on that...

Going by official art work (that seems to be the largest point from where Alex works from) the Avatar is a death-trap with that locked 280xl...

Large, flat ST's, mean that it will be XL checked very quickly...




In the above picture you can find those ST's just by looking at the missile tubes, coupled with small-ish arms they are not going to be much use in shielding those ST's through twisting.... It also has an easy to pick out CT, as both of those hardwired MLas tell you where to shoot....


Honestly the best heavy omni for the IS to start with, is the Black Hawk KU, it is just a bigger Nova....

Odanan, on 01 January 2018 - 04:37 AM, said:

So PGI could release the most classic IS omni pack: Owens, Strider (or the better Men Shen), Avatar and Sunder.

If I could pick an IS Omni pack, based on tech we have in game right now.... I'd likely go with these choices:

Light: Raptor (the first IS Omni, and one of the best options for the lights)
Medium: Men Shen (Hands down the best IS Medium weight Omni, not counting the Gauntlet or Centurion Omni)
Heavy: Black Hawk KU (solid all round unit.)
Assault: Templar or Sunder (this one depends largely on personal choice, as both have strengths that the other does not, both have flaws that the other does not.)

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 02 January 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

Honestly the best heavy omni for the IS to start with, is the Black Hawk KU, it is just a bigger Nova....

If I could pick an IS Omni pack, based on tech we have in game right now.... I'd likely go with these choices:

Light: Raptor (the first IS Omni, and one of the best options for the lights)
Medium: Men Shen (Hands down the best IS Medium weight Omni, not counting the Gauntlet or Centurion Omni)
Heavy: Black Hawk KU (solid all round unit.)
Assault: Templar or Sunder (this one depends largely on personal choice, as both have strengths that the other does not, both have flaws that the other does not.)

But if the mechlab allowed changing the engine type (not rating) and the upgrade of SHS to DHS, these classic (most well known) omnimechs could be in the game. Light Fusion Engine on the Avatar wouldn't be bad.

Anyway, new mech today!! (I guess)

[Marauder3D]

Metus regem, on 02 January 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

I'm not sure on that...

Going by official art work (that seems to be the largest point from where Alex works from) the Avatar is a death-trap with that locked 280xl...

Large, flat ST's, mean that it will be XL checked very quickly...




In the above picture you can find those ST's just by looking at the missile tubes, coupled with small-ish arms they are not going to be much use in shielding those ST's through twisting.... It also has an easy to pick out CT, as both of those hardwired MLas tell you where to shoot....


Honestly the best heavy omni for the IS to start with, is the Black Hawk KU, it is just a bigger Nova....





If I could pick an IS Omni pack, based on tech we have in game right now.... I'd likely go with these choices:

Light: Raptor (the first IS Omni, and one of the best options for the lights)
Medium: Men Shen (Hands down the best IS Medium weight Omni, not counting the Gauntlet or Centurion Omni)
Heavy: Black Hawk KU (solid all round unit.)
Assault: Templar or Sunder (this one depends largely on personal choice, as both have strengths that the other does not, both have flaws that the other does not.)

The hit boxes on the Avatar and Sunder are so horrific (for an IS XL engine) that I think one of two things will happen.

1. These mechs will not be released, or if so, will be as about as popular as the Hellspawn and Nightstar.

2. There will need to be a redesign/rollback on IS XL engine side torso death. Otherwise, PGI will go through the trouble of releasing mechs that no one will buy. And because those mechs would sell well with the MW4 crowd....PGI needs to get to rethinking the IS XL engine.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 02 January 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

But if the mechlab allowed changing the engine type (not rating) and the upgrade of SHS to DHS, these classic (most well known) omnimechs could be in the game. Light Fusion Engine on the Avatar wouldn't be bad.

Anyway, new mech today!! (I guess)

CRUSADER!!!!!!


(OK, I'll show myself out now.....)

[Marauder3D]

I've said it before, but Wasp/Stinger or Crusader is PGI's last chance at my grognard money. That is because I want them ported over to HBS: Battletech as soon as humanly possible.

Then again, we need some courtroom news before that can happen, and no one seems to have a subscription to Pacer Monitor so I can read whats going on over there.

[Metus regem]

Marauder3D, on 02 January 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

The hit boxes on the Avatar and Sunder are so horrific (for an IS XL engine) that I think one of two things will happen.

1. These mechs will not be released, or if so, will be as about as popular as the Hellspawn and Nightstar.

2. There will need to be a redesign/rollback on IS XL engine side torso death. Otherwise, PGI will go through the trouble of releasing mechs that no one will buy. And because those mechs would sell well with the MW4 crowd....PGI needs to get to rethinking the IS XL engine.

I've said it many times, the both the Avatar and Sunder need a major art work overhaul to be even remotely viable in MWO, it's why I feel the Templar would be a solid choice for an IS assault Omni... small ST's, high mounts in the ST's and large shielding arms.... Her flaw is limited crit space due to having Endo Steel and an XL engine.

Odanan, on 02 January 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

But if the mechlab allowed changing the engine type (not rating) and the upgrade of SHS to DHS, these classic (most well known) omnimechs could be in the game. Light Fusion Engine on the Avatar wouldn't be bad.

Anyway, new mech today!! (I guess)

A LFE in a Perseus would be just as strong too, if not stronger than an Avatar...

My issue is, both sides have to play by the same rules when it comes to their mechs, Omnis of both sides need to use the same build rules, just as Battlemechs from both sides do. I don't care if PGI fixes mechs like the Owens or Strider by giving them DHS / Endo / FF, things they should've had in the first place, before they put them in. It is how ever important that IS Omnis play by the same rules as Clan Omnis, less the salt of Clan pilots drown us all out.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Metus regem, on 02 January 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

Honestly the best heavy omni for the IS to start with, is the Black Hawk KU, it is just a bigger Nova....

Yes!

Metus regem, on 02 January 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

If I could pick an IS Omni pack, based on tech we have in game right now.... I'd likely go with these choices:

Light: Raptor (the first IS Omni, and one of the best options for the lights)
Medium: Men Shen (Hands down the best IS Medium weight Omni, not counting the Gauntlet or Centurion Omni)
Heavy: Black Hawk KU (solid all round unit.)
Assault: Templar or Sunder (this one depends largely on personal choice, as both have strengths that the other does not, both have flaws that the other does not.)

More yes!!