20517 replies to this topic

[FearNotDeath]

Warhawk F to freshen up the chassis. Give the Whk more options.

[Water Bear]

As I'm sitting here looking at my Awesomes and my Zeuses, I think what this game really needs is an 80 ton IS 'mech that's...got decent hardpoints. There's 1 Zeus and half an AWS (out of the like 5 I own) that are actually workable.

[FearNotDeath]

Water Bear, on 14 February 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

As I'm sitting here looking at my Awesomes and my Zeuses, I think what this game really needs is an 80 ton IS 'mech that's...got decent hardpoints. There's 1 Zeus and half an AWS (out of the like 5 I own) that are actually workable.

Will end up as loyalty versions locked behind 300 dollars of prerequisites.

[ramp4ge]

So just out of curiosity, howcome the Stone Rhino isn't a thing ingame? Apparently it was fielded during the opening stages of the Clan invasions, and we're well past that on the timeline.

Is there an actual reason it's not ingame? Or are things just not being added in order of timeline anymore?

Because wasn't the Nightstar practically ancient by the time the Clan invasion started? Since Nightstar production stopped in 2786, wouldn't that make every one of them ingame almost 300 years old?

[Requiemking]

ramp4ge, on 14 February 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

So just out of curiosity, howcome the Stone Rhino isn't a thing ingame? Apparently it was fielded during the opening stages of the Clan invasions, and we're well past that on the timeline.

Is there an actual reason it's not ingame? Or are things just not being added in order of timeline anymore?

Because wasn't the Nightstar practically ancient by the time the Clan invasion started? Since Nightstar production stopped in 2786, wouldn't that make every one of them ingame almost 300 years old?

Production of the Nightstar restarted in 3057 in the Federated Commonwealth, and was utilised by both halves of that union.

[Valdarion Silarius]

ramp4ge, on 14 February 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

So just out of curiosity, howcome the Stone Rhino isn't a thing ingame? Apparently it was fielded during the opening stages of the Clan invasions, and we're well past that on the timeline.

Is there an actual reason it's not ingame? Or are things just not being added in order of timeline anymore?

Because wasn't the Nightstar practically ancient by the time the Clan invasion started? Since Nightstar production stopped in 2786, wouldn't that make every one of them ingame almost 300 years old?

It's because it's an unseen mech. And like with many other unseen mechs that still haven't gotten into the game, you can expect to wait after 2/4/2019 for any hint or indication of the unseens returning to MW:O because of the current ongoing court case that is dragging out.

[Requiemking]

Arnold The Governator, on 14 February 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

It's because it's an unseen mech. And like with many other unseen mechs that still haven't gotten into the game, you can expect to wait after 2/4/2019 for any hint or indication of the unseens returning to MW:O because of the current ongoing court case that is dragging out.

Actually, the Stone Rhino is a Reseen, so as long as the MWO version is based upon the artwork of the Stone Rhino-2 variant(the reseen variant) all should be good.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Requiemking, on 14 February 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

Actually, the Stone Rhino is a Reseen, so as long as the MWO version is based upon the artwork of the Stone Rhino-2 variant(the reseen variant) all should be good.

Then does that mean that the IIC reseens are good to go as well? Or will they get swept under the rug and thrown into the hiatus pit along with the other mechs? I'm not entirely sure that I buy this argument because Macross has the HWR-00 Monster MK-2 Heavy Weight Robot in which HG can throw another temper tantrum over the Stone Rhino about.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 14 February 2018 - 11:23 AM.

[ramp4ge]

The Monster, Konig Monster and Monster Mk II look nothing like the Stone Rhino, though.

I mean, I can see the case of things like the Marauder and the Phoenix Hawk being blatant rehashes of Macross stuff. But the only real similarity between the Monster and the Stone Rhino is they're bipedal chicken-walkers with enormous guns. The actual designs and aesthetics of the two, to me at least, are very different.

Especially some of the current or more recent art that've been done for the mech. It looks nothing like a Monster.

[Valdarion Silarius]

ramp4ge, on 14 February 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

The Monster, Konig Monster and Monster Mk II look nothing like the Stone Rhino, though.

I mean, I can see the case of things like the Marauder and the Phoenix Hawk being blatant rehashes of Macross stuff. But the only real similarity between the Monster and the Stone Rhino is they're bipedal chicken-walkers with enormous guns. The actual designs and aesthetics of the two, to me at least, are very different.

Especially some of the current or more recent art that've been done for the mech. It looks nothing like a Monster.

Yeah I agree that they look nothing alike. Extremely long gun barrels and entirely different arms. On the same note the Rifleman IIC (both unseen and reseen) looks nothing like the Destroid Defender from Macross either. It's the unfortunate fact that FASA threw these mechs into these categories because of the "fear" of another lawsuit.

[Adridos]

Arnold The Governator, on 14 February 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

On the same note the Rifleman IIC (both unseen and reseen) looks nothing like the Destroid Defender from Macross either.

Not at all. Unseen Rifleman IIC even has the rocket launchers from the original Destroid. They're not even explainable within Battletech universe.

The case with Stone Rhino is completely different. The old Stone Rhino was a straight copy of the Monster. However, I'm only aware of a model of that one ever being produced. It definitely never got any TRO art before the redesign. It's possible it had some sort of art in the various magazines coming out from FASA.

Here's pictures of the old thing.

[Metus regem]

Adridos, on 14 February 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

Not at all. Unseen Rifleman IIC even has the rocket launchers from the original Destroid. They're not even explainable within Battletech universe.

The case with Stone Rhino is completely different. The old Stone Rhino was a straight copy of the Monster. However, I'm only aware of a model of that one ever being produced. It definitely never got any TRO art before the redesign. It's possible it had some sort of art in the various magazines coming out from FASA.

Here's pictures of the old thing.

huh, I see less of this:



and way more of this:



When I look at that mini....


Then again, yes the weapon mounts on the one you posted look more like the Macross unit, but the body structure (the largest part of the miniature) looks more like the Warlord titan...

[Adridos]

Metus regem, on 14 February 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

Then again, yes the weapon mounts on the one you posted look more like the Macross unit, but the body structure (the largest part of the miniature) looks more like the Warlord titan...

Nah...

Speaking of, W40k titans, they're copied from Battletech which is copied from anime so yeah. That Warlord Titan has the face of the Monster, not the other way around. To reiterate, Games Workshop made metal casts of Battletech machines for the original titans. To say nothing of stealing the rules and everything.

The old minies are there on the internet, but you'll need to one up my google-fu to find them ATM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Adridos, on 14 February 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

Not at all. Unseen Rifleman IIC even has the rocket launchers from the original Destroid. They're not even explainable within Battletech universe.

Rocket launchers from the original Destroid?


I don't see anything that indicates any missile launcher bays on either of the mech designs so I have no clue what you are talking about. If you are referring to the twin barrels from both mechs, that is literally the only similarity other than the fact that they are bi-petal humanoid mechs. Even then, the reseen Rifleman IIC would be drastically different in that regard since MW:O took an even more drastic redesign approach to the reseens that we already have in game.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 14 February 2018 - 01:00 PM.

[Metus regem]

Adridos, on 14 February 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

Nah...

Speaking of, W40k titans, they're copied from Battletech which is copied from anime so yeah. That Warlord Titan has the face of the Monster, not the other way around. To reiterate, Games Workshop made metal casts of Battletech machines for the original titans. To say nothing of stealing the rules and everything.

The old minies are there on the internet, but you'll need to one up my google-fu to find them ATM.

Never played that version of epic to be honest, the minatures from Epic I recall all look somewhat like the current Forgeworld 40k units, just really freaking small.... well the Warlord I remeber from my time with Epic, was this one:


And she was one of the older casts...

[Adridos]

Arnold The Governator, on 14 February 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

I don't see anything that indicates any missile launcher bays on either of the mech designs so I have no clue what you are talking about.

Here's a shot of the mech:


And the internals:


The X68k version has slightly more details on the internals but I think these ones are clear enough for what they are.
And yes, these are genuine pictures taken from Mechwarrior 1's mechlab, the game where Battletech got the IICs from.

Metus regem, on 14 February 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Never played that version of epic to be honest, the minatures from Epic I recall all look somewhat like the current Forgeworld 40k units, just really freaking small.... well the Warlord I remeber from my time with Epic, was this one.

Adeptus Titanicus predates Epic by quite a margin. It's what epic eventually derived from. First it was the mechs going at it and then they started adding other units, et cetera, et cetera.
Once again, I'm sorry but I'm unable to provide the damning evidence since the new re-release of the game makes looking for this obscure stuff particularly painful.

Edited by Adridos, 14 February 2018 - 01:26 PM.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 14 February 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

In my book, this is the Stone Rhino:

And it has nothing to do with the Macross Monster.

I believe the Stone Rhino is not in the game because... there were better options. But I can see it been one of the next 2 Clan assault mechs. Current Clan assault (best) candidates:

• Stone Rhino: 100 tons battlemech, iconic and looks great, but was never that good.
  
• Warhammer IIC: 80 tons battlemech, a classic from MW2 but with kind of uninspired variants.
  
• Phoenix Hawk IIC: 80 battlemech, great and diverse variants but awkwardly two classes heavier than the IS counterpart.
  
• Bane: 100 tons battlemech, the ultimate boat mech - and would actually be excellent in MWO.
  
• Turkina: 95 tons omnimech, beautiful and kind of popular, but would be very slow in this game.

[Metus regem]

Adridos, on 14 February 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Adeptus Titanicus predates Epic by quite a margin. It's what epic eventually derived from. First it was the mechs going at it and then they started adding other units, et cetera, et cetera.
Once again, I'm sorry but I'm unable to provide the damning evidence since the new re-release of the game makes looking for this obscure stuff particularly painful.

I remeber coming across a web site that keeps an online listing of all the old citidel minatures up...

http://www.solegends...el/catindex.htm

Looks like the '89 and '91 Catalogue has some of it:


http://www.solegends...t1989/index.htm
http://www.solegends...1991a/index.htm


That was with a quick look

[Odanan]

Adridos, on 14 February 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Isn't this the MW1's Rifleman?

The one you posted is the Rifleman IIC (maybe from MW2?)

But yeah, there are clearly the "rocket launchers".

BTW, good to see you back here Adridos. Don't be a stranger.

[Adridos]

Metus regem, on 14 February 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

I remeber coming across a web site that keeps an online listing of all the old citidel minatures up...

http://www.solegends...el/catindex.htm

Looks like the '89 and '91 Catalogue has some of it:


http://www.solegends...t1989/index.htm
http://www.solegends...1991a/index.htm


That was with a quick look

GOT EM! Thanks.

http://jrients.blogs...s-revealed.html


Was actually even older than I remembered, this is from before AdeTita.

Odanan, on 14 February 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

The one you posted is the Rifleman IIC (maybe from MW2?)

BTW, good to see you back here Adridos. Don't be a stranger.

Rifleman IIC came into Battletech through the Japanese version of Mechwarrior 1, which had a redesign for each of the mechs. It's a bog-standard Rifleman in the game, just with a new look so people wouldn't confuse it with the Destroid as there had been plenty of Macross games on those platforms.
The Japanese clearly used the anime designs for reference where applicable, so the Locust still has the rocket launcher ears as per the original, Shadow Hawk doesn't have the gun (neither does the DOS version, IIRC) as it was but an equipment pack in the anime and so on.

Though I'm not THAT sure on the whole rocket launcher thing now. I'll try and grind out the Sharp version after all. Macross treats the boxes as ammo bins.

Oh, and nice to see you too, Odanan. I'm just checking around since I found and got to play the original PC98 version of the game, the originator of much of these things.

Edited by Adridos, 14 February 2018 - 01:56 PM.