20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Requiemking, on 13 July 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

I don't know about the Whitworth. Depending on Hardpoint count it might make for a decent MRM boat. And it's hardly the worst Medium missile boat mech out there.

It's a small mech with at least 2 missile hardpoints: you surely can't "boat" more than 2 MRMs on it, because of the weight.

Here is your mech.

Do people use MRMs on the Assassin? If not, I don't see why they would do in the Not-worth-it.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 July 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

THIS

is the stone rhino everyone is most familiar with/wants.

It's tenuously based off of THIS

No court of law ANYWHERE will claim the top picture is derivative of this.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean HG wouldn't try. Did you see the lawsuit? They claimed the Atlas had elements of their mechas... :/

BTW, the Stone Rhino in MWO should have 2 Gauss Rifles on the top, not only one (the original art didn't match with the mech sheet, so they went in lengths to explain that both Gauss Rifles fired through the same barrel).
Something like this? (with the Gauss rifles larger and more separated apart, probably)

Edited by Odanan, 13 July 2018 - 01:53 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 13 July 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

Agreed, but that doesn't mean HG wouldn't try. Did you see the lawsuit? They claimed the Atlas had elements of their mechas... :/

BTW, the Stone Rhino in MWO should have 2 Gauss Rifles on the top, not only one (the original art didn't match with the mech sheet, so they went in lengths to explain that both Gauss Rifles fired through the same barrel).
Something like this? (with the Gauss rifles larger and more separated apart, probably)

By that reasoning PGI should fold up shop because ANY robot they make can be said to resemble something else. And while the HG filing this last time was a bad joke, it was for the same specific models they fought over time and again (Warhammer, Marauder, etc... even if the ones they claimed on PGIs end were.. beyond laughable this time, mostly). The ONLY reason the above art for the Behemoth/Stone Rhino was made unseen was because it was out of house and after the 3rd or 4th go round Battletech decided that ALL out of house art would be Unseen.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 July 2018 - 02:30 PM.

[Virlutris]

The Lighthouse, on 12 July 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

Actually it's been more than 5 months since we had an assault mech. Last 5 were one medium, two heavies and two lights.

Very likely an assault, if not medium mech.


It seems PGI nowdays pretty much ignores poll's result.

However, we can see a trend: Older era mechs that can be used for MW5 and Battletech. Look at the mechs; Flea, Vulcan, Champion.... old ones.

If this is going to be an IS assault mech.... I think Emperor has very high chance to appear.

If this is going to be an Clan assault mech.... Stone Rhino is probably quite high up there, but seeing Hellfire being released, Turkina also has a good chance.

If it is medium, Dervish for IS, and Clan.... I have no idea. Maybe Vapor Eagle.


Then again, nothing changes the fact that we need Hollander right now.

Actually, it's been what? 2 months since the Blood Asp patched in? Hellfire this month, and the Incubus drops in a couple more. Mediums are woefully underrepresented already. Then again, as I noted before, they often don't do what I think would be good/cool/funny. It's their game, they do what they want.

Though I'm agreed that it seems like they ignore feedback. Then again, there's a built-in delay due to the production schedule being planned a bunch of months in advance. So sometimes it can look like like they're ignoring us when they pull something unexpected, while other times it's more like: Soon™.

[Odanan]

Virlutris, on 13 July 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

Actually, it's been what? 2 months since the Blood Asp patched in? Hellfire this month, and the Incubus drops in a couple more. Mediums are woefully underrepresented already. Then again, as I noted before, they often don't do what I think would be good/cool/funny. It's their game, they do what they want.

Indeed! Vapor Eagle (or hopefully, the Coyotl) might be the August mech.

[Requiemking]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 July 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

40 ton 4/6/4 mech .... with barndoor torso base art. As with anything I'm sure it can be massaged and quirked enough to not be terrible, but if it remotely is akin to the original art, it's low speed, terrible hitboxes and skinny arms, are a pretty certain death sentence.

The Whitworth has far less barndoor torso than the Trenchbucket, especially with the TRO 3050 Update art. It's slow for a 40 tonner, sure, but that means it will be the best armed 40 tonner. Twin MRM 20s plus three ERMLs is not bad for a medium, and thats without changing anything but the weapons.Plus with hardpoint inflation it could actually carry some solid firepower at the cost of speed, which is something we don't have at the 40 ton weight bracket.

[Bishop Steiner]

Requiemking, on 13 July 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

The Whitworth has far less barndoor torso than the Trenchbucket, especially with the TRO 3050 Update art. It's slow for a 40 tonner, sure, but that means it will be the best armed 40 tonner. Twin MRM 20s plus three ERMLs is not bad for a medium, and thats without changing anything but the weapons.Plus with hardpoint inflation it could actually carry some solid firepower at the cost of speed, which is something we don't have at the 40 ton weight bracket.

How many Trebuchets you see running around?

And if you get obliterated from bad hitboxes, I don't think theoretical firepower (especially missile power) matters.

[Adridos]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 July 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

THIS

is the stone rhino everyone is most familiar with/wants.

It's tenuously based off of THIS

It's not. At least not directly.
As I said, the well-known design is based off of a Robotech-original design (from Robotech II, IIRC), not the Macross ones. They took the design, saw it as a little too on-the-nose of a copy and sawed off the 2 of the 3 top side guns. Hence the whole thing with the art having 1, but the rules clearly calling for 3 guns in the torso.

Although in all honesty, it's most likely a mish-mash between that thing and the Marauder. The precise details are impossible to document unless someone creates a time machine so we could see FASA dealings before they went into the fireplace/shredder during the HG case and then learn Japanese and ask about the VMI side of things during the period of their involvement making Mechwarrior games.
The only thing that is certain is that the 2nd unseen has nothing do with Monster, that is definitely exclusive to the pre-TRO3055 sculpts.

Edited by Adridos, 14 July 2018 - 01:30 AM.

[Imperius]

Next mech pack needs to be the Unreal Engine 4 founders pack.

[Bishop Steiner]

Adridos, on 14 July 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

It's not. At least not directly.
As I said, the well-known design is based off of a Robotech-original design (from Robotech II, IIRC), not the Macross ones. They took the design, saw it as a little too on-the-nose of a copy and sawed off the 2 of the 3 top side guns. Hence the whole thing with the art having 1, but the rules clearly calling for 3 guns in the torso.

Although in all honesty, it's most likely a mish-mash between that thing and the Marauder. The precise details are impossible to document unless someone creates a time machine so we could see FASA dealings before they went into the fireplace/shredder during the HG case and then learn Japanese and ask about the VMI side of things during the period of their involvement making Mechwarrior games.
The only thing that is certain is that the 2nd unseen has nothing do with Monster, that is definitely exclusive to the pre-TRO3055 sculpts.

well these are the only Robotech II (aka the Sentinels) era Mecha that are even remotely similar, the MAC III and the OBP-72. I'd be hard pressed to call either close enough to call the Behemoth derivative. I believe the Unseen status was solely due to being a VMI design. And again, all non house designs were Unseen for sake of avoiding future headaches (even though... oddly, FASA had actually paid for and commissioned VMI to make the 3055 stuff? So I don't understand the worry aside from the obvious Warhammer IIC, etc)

[FLG 01]

Marauder3D, on 13 July 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

40 ton Whitworth: This one would be terribad in MWO, but is great on paper and in table top.

55 ton Dervish: This one might be just fine in MWO. It jumps, and fits in with the other 55 ton crowd.

I don't see anything I could do with them that I could not do with existing Mechs (and probably better, too). And no, that's not true for every new Mech.

The Lynx e.g. would provide a 55t energy boat (that is not a hero), and being non-humanoid too, with excellent hardpoint distribution.
I play IS mediums all the time, and that is exactly what I miss. The Lynx is also good for 3025, just saying...

Virlutris, on 11 July 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

I think a ClanTech medium would be nice for balance's sake given the relatively low number of ClanTech mediums

The case of the Clan mediums is a curious one... there are not many of them, but they are pretty good. Hunchback IIC, Huntsman, Nova, and Stormcrow provide a more than solid line-up in the 50-55t range.

The question is, where does PGI want to go? They could release the Vapor Eagle, and more or less obsolete all of the above mentioned Mechs immediately; it's that good (unless they ruin its geometry or something).
An alternative would be the Stooping Hawk because it does not outright replace the others, it complements them by being an very tanky, even zombie-like Clan Mech, which is quite a novelty if done right.

I think a 45t Clan BattleMech would be needed most. That means Pinion, Shadow Hawk IIC, or Wyvern IIC.
Actually the Shadow Hawk IIC looks quite solid...

(However, I personally would only buy the Crimson Langur and the Stooping Hawk).

[Pariah Devalis]

FLG 01, on 14 July 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

I don't see anything I could do with them that I could not do with existing Mechs (and probably better, too). And no, that's not true for every new Mech.

The Lynx e.g. would provide a 55t energy boat (that is not a hero), and being non-humanoid too, with excellent hardpoint distribution.
I play IS mediums all the time, and that is exactly what I miss. The Lynx is also good for 3025, just saying...



The case of the Clan mediums is a curious one... there are not many of them, but they are pretty good. Hunchback IIC, Huntsman, Nova, and Stormcrow provide a more than solid line-up in the 50-55t range.

The question is, where does PGI want to go? They could release the Vapor Eagle, and more or less obsolete all of the above mentioned Mechs immediately; it's that good (unless they ruin its geometry or something).
An alternative would be the Stooping Hawk because it does not outright replace the others, it complements them by being an very tanky, even zombie-like Clan Mech, which is quite a novelty if done right.

I think a 45t Clan BattleMech would be needed most. That means Pinion, Shadow Hawk IIC, or Wyvern IIC.
Actually the Shadow Hawk IIC looks quite solid...

(However, I personally would only buy the Crimson Langur and the Stooping Hawk).

I'd say it would be nice to have a battlemech option for each weight point. 50 tons is covered more than well enough. Vapor Eagle would complement the Stormcrow at 55 tons, nicely. 40 tons is set, with the Viper and both kinds of Arctic Wolf tech. 45 tons could use a battlemech, however.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 14 July 2018 - 08:12 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 July 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

I'd say it would be nice to have a battlemech option for each weight point. 50 tons is covered more than well enough. Vapor Eagle would complement the Stormcrow at 55 tons, nicely. 40 tons is set, with the Viper and both kinds of Arctic Wolf tech. 45 tons could use a battlemech, however.

Yeah.. but offhand what Clan Battlemechs do we have at 45 tons? Great Wyrm (Meh), Pinion (vomits in mouth), Shadow hawk IIC (boring!) or...Wyvern IIC? (I'd rate Stag, Stag II as even less likely than a Coyotl)

Not the most exciting of Options. For loadout potential the Wyvern IIC is kind of interesting, and I'd be curious aesthetically where Alex would go... Ultraman much? For Nostalgia reasons the Shadow Hawk IIC would probably be the favorite, but it's really not all that amazing. IDK.

I think the general Meh-ness of 45 ton battlemech options make the Vapour Eagle even more appealing. It blends the best aspects of the Wyvern IIC (hardpoint options) with the best points of the Shadow Hawk IIC (mobility) while having more tonnage for guns and armor.

[Adridos]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 July 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

well these are the only Robotech II (aka the Sentinels) era Mecha that are even remotely similar, the MAC III and the OBP-72. I'd be hard pressed to call either close enough to call the Behemoth derivative. I believe the Unseen status was solely due to being a VMI design. And again, all non house designs were Unseen for sake of avoiding future headaches (even though... oddly, FASA had actually paid for and commissioned VMI to make the 3055 stuff? So I don't understand the worry aside from the obvious Warhammer IIC, etc)

The MACIII has quite a few aspects which are shared with Stone Rhino (the arms, the trifecta of gun at the top), but even then, I agree it's hardly something you could sue by.

And VMI designs were definitely not paid for/commissioned in such a way. They were made for MW1 and only got re-used by FASA since they owned them as they were created under their MW license. The decision to drop the non-game (non IIC) designs came long after FASA kicked the bucket.

[Virlutris]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 July 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

Yeah.. but offhand what Clan Battlemechs do we have at 45 tons? Great Wyrm (Meh), Pinion (vomits in mouth), Shadow hawk IIC (boring!) or...Wyvern IIC? (I'd rate Stag, Stag II as even less likely than a Coyotl)

Not the most exciting of Options. For loadout potential the Wyvern IIC is kind of interesting, and I'd be curious aesthetically where Alex would go... Ultraman much? For Nostalgia reasons the Shadow Hawk IIC would probably be the favorite, but it's really not all that amazing. IDK.

I think the general Meh-ness of 45 ton battlemech options make the Vapour Eagle even more appealing. It blends the best aspects of the Wyvern IIC (hardpoint options) with the best points of the Shadow Hawk IIC (mobility) while having more tonnage for guns and armor.

You know, I keep forgetting about the Vapor Eagle. Seems fun.

Curious, why the dyspepsia over the Pinion?

[Bishop Steiner]

Virlutris, on 14 July 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

You know, I keep forgetting about the Vapor Eagle. Seems fun.

Curious, why the dyspepsia over the Pinion?

have you looked at the art. It's like a hugely orca fat chick with beast bossoms.



mechs should not come with DDD cups

but even without the godawful art.. the design is just another udderly boring laserboat. Don't we have enough of those already?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 July 2018 - 08:55 PM.

[Requiemking]

Virlutris, on 14 July 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

You know, I keep forgetting about the Vapor Eagle. Seems fun.

Curious, why the dyspepsia over the Pinion?

Because it is basically a Clan frankenmech with an ugly aesthetic and an arsenal that would make a Solitaire laugh?

[Virlutris]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 July 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

have you looked at the art. It's like a hugely orca fat chick with beast bossoms.



mechs should not come with DDD cups

but even without the godawful art.. the design is just another udderly boring laserboat. Don't we have enough of those already?

Requiemking, on 14 July 2018 - 08:56 PM, said:

Because it is basically a Clan frankenmech with an ugly aesthetic and an arsenal that would make a Solitaire laugh?

1. DDD isn't a problem, IMO.
2. I like to laserboat.
3. I like Alex's work on the Gargoyle and Ice Ferret, and they're supposedly ugly.
4. I like the Fridge and Shadowcat just fine, and they've typically been less-gunned than a lot of other ClanMechs.
5. Worth repeating: Alex would make it work.

I'd be fine with it, I think. But thanks for sharing why you'd rather not

[Bishop Steiner]

Virlutris, on 14 July 2018 - 10:30 PM, said:

1. DDD isn't a problem, IMO.
2. I like to laserboat.
3. I like Alex's work on the Gargoyle and Ice Ferret, and they're supposedly ugly.
4. I like the Fridge and Shadowcat just fine, and they've typically been less-gunned than a lot of other ClanMechs.
5. Worth repeating: Alex would make it work.

I'd be fine with it, I think. But thanks for sharing why you'd rather not

I'd point out we have several mechs already Alex hasn't been able to "make work"...and a couple more the Modelers butchered.

[FLG 01]

Requiemking, on 14 July 2018 - 08:56 PM, said:

Because it is basically a Clan frankenmech with an ugly aesthetic and an arsenal that would make a Solitaire laugh?

Aesthetics are subjective (and who knows what Alex could do...), but arsenal? I mean that's 7 energy hardpoints - probably more than you can effectively use on a Clan 45t Mech, and definitely enough.

I would not be my number one choice, but let's be fair to all Mechs.

PS: compared to the Black Lanner the Pinion looks like a gunboat. Sorry, Odanan, could not resist