229 replies to this topic

[Hawk819]

Cer6erus, on 20 December 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

I'm just curious as to how many more games I need to drop in and see 4-5 Thunderbolts all sitting on the boreal vault hill with triple ERPPCs before I go crazy.

Thunderbolt quirks... 50% less heat generated with ERPPC 25% faster firing rate. 12.5% faster speed.

They can fire these things for days on cold maps. And then when they finally die, welp, here comes the 7xMPLAS Thunderwub!.

That's only 130 tons on a drop deck. You still have room for an assault and a light. Or a heavy and a firestarter.

Maybe because I'm I clanner, I don't see all the frustrating builds you IS people deal with, but I'm getting really tired of all your over quirked mechs. Its one thing to 'balance' a mech for a single drop. But in CW you can spam these 'bad' mechs with disgusting quirks for days on end.

Am I the only one that feels this way? if so tell me to man up and get on with my life. If not, tell me how to deal with this stress.

You think that's bad, Try Machine Gun Spam. On nothing but King Crabs. In my opinion, only TRO `Mech should have machine guns. Yea, i said it, JagerMech Noobs! What do you have to say about it?

[R Razor]

Artifact, on 23 December 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

And I'm QUITE sure PGI will eventually nerf TDRs. You know why? I'm right. You're wrong. PGI will be forced to make the change once EVERY IS CW drop deck includes a TDR, despite all of the other IS 60-65 ton choices. And then I will laugh at you.

So they will neft Crows and Timberwolves too then? I mean every CW deck (your words not mine) contains them too according to me.

[Mcgral18]

R Razor, on 23 December 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

So they will neft Crows and Timberwolves too then? I mean every CW deck (your words not mine) contains them too according to me.

Because every other Clam mech has already been nerfed.


Hurray blanket nerfs. Few mechs can effectively used the excessively hot weapons, or have the tonnage for the lower heat options.

[Artifact]

R Razor, on 23 December 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

So they will neft Crows and Timberwolves too then? I mean every CW deck (your words not mine) contains them too according to me.

Well, you being wrong is certainly nothing new, as we've already established. You're wrong about that, because I,personally, do not even run a Twolf in my CW deck. Nor do plenty of other people.

Making things up doesn't actually make them true, no matter how much you wish it to be so.

[R Razor]

Mcgral18, on 23 December 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Because every other Clam mech has already been nerfed.


Hurray blanket nerfs. Few mechs can effectively used the excessively hot weapons, or have the tonnage for the lower heat options.

Just using his logic my man...........again, based on this thread.......it's okay to have clan mechs that are advantaged over any other mech in the game, but as soon as the IS gets one that comes close, it's time to scream for nerfs.

And while I'm thinking about it......Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you, even if you are Clanners.

Artifact, on 23 December 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Well, you being wrong is certainly nothing new, as we've already established. You're wrong about that, because I,personally, do not even run a Twolf in my CW deck. Nor do plenty of other people.

Making things up doesn't actually make them true, no matter how much you wish it to be so.

Exactly..........and right now, the only thing TRUE in this thread, as verified by your earlier post, is that you are going to change sides because you want to be on the side that you perceive has the most advantages.

Not every drop deck has a Thud in it either, just FYI.

[Kirkland Langue]

Mcgral18, on 23 December 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Hurray blanket nerfs. Few mechs can effectively used the excessively hot weapons, or have the tonnage for the lower heat options.

And yet, it seems that every IS player believes that once Clan weapons will be able to be mounted on IS mechs - it will change the game.

If the weapons are so hot that even mechs with 2-critslot DHS have trouble using them, then I can't imagine anyone would run cERML on any IS mechs..... right?

[Gallowglas]

As opposed to the all-Timberwolf attack rush?

I can tell you first-hand from having driven Thunderbolts, Timerwolves, Stormcrows, and Stalkers for more drops than I can name, the PPC Thunderbolt is very, very niche. It handles it's niche okay, but it's not a brawler and it can overheat a lot even with the quirks. I just don't see it as a performance outlier. Mine certainly has a MUCH lower KDR than any of the other chassis I named above. In the grand scheme of things, the Thunderwub is a better choice.

[AeturnitasMalus]

We all know by now that PGI gathers quite a bit of data. They have made challenges just to help them gather a specific type of data. I would like to be able to see some numbers before I decide to break into the pool noodle girl fights that most forum arguments can be equated with. Maybe it has been brought up and shot down before, I don't know as I'm really not that active on the forums.

[Mcgral18]

Kirkland Langue, on 23 December 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

And yet, it seems that every IS player believes that once Clan weapons will be able to be mounted on IS mechs - it will change the game.

If the weapons are so hot that even mechs with 2-critslot DHS have trouble using them, then I can't imagine anyone would run cERML on any IS mechs..... right?

You mean IS mechs that could use 7 slit Endo at will, changing to a more optimized engine as well as having 2 slot DHS?

WubShee could mount 28 DHS with just Clam Endo and 2 slotters, up from 21, while using the superior IS lasers.


Clam battle mechs would have IS advantages without the Clam disadvantages, which exist for even the 2 god tiers. They just have the least terribad construction.

Yes, those mechs would be superior to Clam OmnoMechs.

[Artifact]

Gallowglas, on 23 December 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

As opposed to the all-Timberwolf attack rush?

I can tell you first-hand from having driven Thunderbolts, Timerwolves, Stormcrows, and Stalkers for more drops than I can name, the PPC Thunderbolt is very, very niche. It handles it's niche okay, but it's not a brawler and it can overheat a lot even with the quirks. I just don't see it as a performance outlier. Mine certainly has a MUCH lower KDR than any of the other chassis I named above. In the grand scheme of things, the Thunderwub is a better choice.

We'll have to agree to disagree, to some extent. I've already pointed out the math on the TDR-9S. As you say, the 5SS is probably worse, but its advantages are moderated by blatant disadvantages. Namely, a 65-ish kph mech with 400m weapons. I have a specific problem with the 9S because it is so openly, blatantly better in every way.

Edited by Artifact, 23 December 2014 - 09:34 AM.

[R Razor]

Artifact, on 23 December 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

We'll have to agree to disagree, to some extent. I've already pointed out the math on the TDR-9S. As you say, the 5SS is probably worse, but its advantages are moderated by blatant disadvantages. Namely, a 65-ish kph mech with 400m weapons. I have a specific problem with the 9S because it is so openly, blatantly better in every way.

Can't you see though, we IS players have been dealing with a mech that we perceive to be blatantly better in every way for a long time as well.............now we finally have one that we believe can slug it out with it and you guys are screaming about how unfair it is.

Please, explain to me how it is any different. Anecdotal evidence aside, explain how a single IS mech changes the balance of the game as drastically as it was changed when the Timberwolf and Doomcrow combos hit the ground running.

That really is the bottom line that needs clarifying here.

[Artifact]

AeturnitasMalus, on 23 December 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

We all know by now that PGI gathers quite a bit of data. They have made challenges just to help them gather a specific type of data. I would like to be able to see some numbers before I decide to break into the pool noodle girl fights that most forum arguments can be equated with. Maybe it has been brought up and shot down before, I don't know as I'm really not that active on the forums.

If I had faith in PGI's ability to use that data effectively, I wouldn't be posting here. Notice my low post count? It's not because I haven't been here since closed Beta.

I just sort of reached my limit. It was clear that if they didn't limit clan tonnage versus IS tonnage, that book rule clantech wouldn't work in this environment. So I'm fine with the idea of making clans different, not better, assuming we aren't ever going to have Clans set up in stars/binaries and IS folks in lances/companies.

Honestly, though, I'd prefer PGI stop thinking that they know better than FASA/Microsoft. I'd prefer powerful clan units that are stupidly outnumbered. Instead, they have turned this game into World of Mechs. Community Warfare was the only thing keeping me interested. Alas, I'm pretty sure they've fleeced me of the last dollar they will get from me, at this point.

[R Razor]

And I am in the opposite boat........although I agree with a portion of what you said, regarding PGI thinking they know better than the original franchise designers specifically.

Now that I see the IS getting mechs that can fight the Clan mechs on near equal ground I'm ready to spend money again for the first time since June of 2013, just waiting to see if there is a Christmas sale.

And again, for those who may have overlooked it, I hope that you and your families all have a wonderful Christmas and New Year.

[AeturnitasMalus]

I'm not talking about how the devs use the data, I'm saying that we should be able to see it.

[Artifact]

R Razor, on 23 December 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Can't you see though, we IS players have been dealing with a mech that we perceive to be blatantly better in every way for a long time as well.............now we finally have one that we believe can slug it out with it and you guys are screaming about how unfair it is.

Please, explain to me how it is any different. Anecdotal evidence aside, explain how a single IS mech changes the balance of the game as drastically as it was changed when the Timberwolf and Doomcrow combos hit the ground running.

That really is the bottom line that needs clarifying here.

[Redacted]

You have gone well past wanting balance, and now want to stick it to people who prefer playing clans. You think that because you believe you somehow suffered, that now everyone you perceive to have had some massive advantage should suffer, too. Hence me calling you ignorant, because that is /rank/ ignorance.

Twolves have been continually nerfed, directly and indirectly, since they were released. You're just upset that you didn't get to benefit from it when it was out of whack. Guess what? TDRs are now out of whack, and need to be adjusted, JUST LIKE TWOLVES WERE.

Edited by John Wolf, 23 December 2014 - 02:17 PM.
Focus on the topic, do NOT target players

[R Razor]

Artifact, on 23 December 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

You're an ignorant, unintelligent troll who harasses everyone he disagrees with, has no idea what he's talking about, and thinks personal insults are just as effective tools for convincing someone of the just nature of your cause as a solid argument. So let's get things straight about me agreeing to disagree with you, specifically. You're a troll. You're rude. You deserve neither respect nor politeness.

You have gone well past wanting balance, and now want to stick it to people who prefer playing clans. You think that because you believe you somehow suffered, that now everyone you perceive to have had some massive advantage should suffer to. Hence me calling you ignorance, because that is /rank/ ignorance.

Twolves have been continually nerfed, directly and indirectly, since they were released. You're just upset that you didn't get to benefit from it when it was out of whack. Guess what? TDRs are now out of whack, and need to be adjusted, JUST LIKE TWOLVES WERE.

I didn't mean to touch you in your bad place............I thought it was a valid question. Your claim that a mech is extremely out of balance and needs nerfing only seems to apply when it's not one that you prefer to play. I was hoping you'd be capable of explaining exactly why that is.

The Thud is no more OP than the Timberwolf at the end of the day.

[Artifact]

AeturnitasMalus, on 23 December 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I'm not talking about how the devs use the data, I'm saying that we should be able to see it.

I actually agree with you. I wish PGI would release both tabular and raw data about wins/losses, chassis/weapon use, and group status as it related to CW. I work with stats for a living, I'd LOVE to have a crack at those data.

[pbiggz]

[Artifact]

R Razor, on 23 December 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

I didn't mean to touch you in your bad place............I thought it was a valid question. Your claim that a mech is extremely out of balance and needs nerfing only seems to apply when it's not one that you prefer to play. I was hoping you'd be capable of explaining exactly why that is.

The Thud is no more OP than the Timberwolf at the end of the day.

Again, you are making assumptions -- I don't really even play Twolves anymore. Since they added in the fixed jump jet nerf, I can't run my preferred build anymore. Ironically, I run my preferred build on an IS mech, the cataphract.

Stop making assumptions. You really aren't psychic. You have no idea how I arrive at my conclusions or what I do with my time. The TDR-9S is /broken./ Arguing that it's 'just as broken as the Twolf' is both wrong and a bad argument. The Twolf is at the tail end of a LOT of nerfs, and will continue getting nerfs because of people like you. But that has nothing to do with the broken nature of creating a mech chassis that is literally, demonstrably better at ERPPC combat than every other mech in the game while at the same time claiming Clan mechs are OP.

Edited by Artifact, 23 December 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[R Razor]

Artifact, on 23 December 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Again, you are making assumption -- I don't really even play Twolves anymore. Since they added in the fixed jump jet nerf, I can't run my preferred build anymore. Ironically, I run my preferred build on an IS mech, the cataphract.

Stop making assumptions. You really aren't psychic. You have no idea how I arrive at my conclusions or what I do with my time. The TDR-9S is /broken./ Arguing that it's 'just as broken as the Twolf' is both wrong and a bad argument. The Twolf is at the tail end of a LOT of nerfs, and will continue getting nerfs because of people like you. But that has nothing to do with the broken nature of creating a mech chassis that is literally, demonstrably better at ERPPC combat than every other mech in the game while at the same time claiming Clan mechs are OP.

Ahh but I'm not calling for Twolf nerfs (unless you count wanting the HSR bunnyhop issue fixed).........some clan mechs are OP for their class, just as you believe yourself to be right about the Thud, I believe I'm right about that. In your world are you the only one that can ever be right?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Thud at the moment and really, the majority of people screaming for it to be nerfed are the people it shoots at the most..........sound familiar?

And if you read a little further back, I said some clarification would be a good thing, trust me I have no desire to attempt to read your mind for reasons too numerous to list.

Edited by R Razor, 23 December 2014 - 10:01 AM.