229 replies to this topic

[cSand]

R Razor, on 20 December 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

And choosing PPC and MPL T-Bolts over Quickdraws and Jags is a no brainer as well..............so again, not getting the complaint here at all.

pfff

say people who don't pilot Quickdraws or Jags

[kapusta11]

ERPPC TDR is as OP as any Dual Gauss heavy, even less because of projectile speed. Stop whining and L2P.

[Kiiyor]

Cer6erus, on 20 December 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

I'm just curious as to how many more games I need to drop in and see 4-5 Thunderbolts all sitting on the boreal vault hill with triple ERPPCs before I go crazy.

Thunderbolt quirks... 50% less heat generated with ERPPC 25% faster firing rate. 12.5% faster speed.

They can fire these things for days on cold maps. And then when they finally die, welp, here comes the 7xMPLAS Thunderwub!.

I don't think it's too over the top. I do, however think it is laughable that the most iconic PPC mech in the 'Sphere (the humble Awesome) is far, far worse at PPC's than a mech that was never really designed for them. The TBolt has better hardpoint locations, better hitboxes, better speed, better PPC's.

Cer6erus, on 20 December 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

Maybe because I'm I clanner, I don't see all the frustrating builds you IS people deal with...

I can help here: MadCats, StormCrows, DireWolves and HellBringers - any of which can easily take either of the more annoying TBolt builds you mention.

[Brody319]

Kiiyor, on 20 December 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

I can help here: MadCats, StormCrows, DireWolves and HellBringers - any of which can easily take either of the more annoying TBolt builds you mention.

Any particular builds you dislike? Just saying a chassis is broken is dumb. Firestarter A is broken, the Ember is not.

[Alistair Winter]

Kiiyor, on 20 December 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

I don't think it's too over the top. I do, however think it is laughable that the most iconic PPC mech in the 'Sphere (the humble Awesome) is far, far worse at PPC's than a mech that was never really designed for them. The TBolt has better hardpoint locations, better hitboxes, better speed, better PPC's.

And at the risk of beating a dead horse... Has anyone seen a CPLT-K2 using PPCs in CW? I haven't. As expected, the latest quirk added by PGI was so insignificant it made no impact at all.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 21 December 2014 - 12:01 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Brody319, on 20 December 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

Any particular builds you dislike? Just saying a chassis is broken is dumb. Firestarter A is broken, the Ember is not.

It's not really dumb - all of those mechs, with the possible exception of the HellBringer, are the most versatile in the game.

The 4xSRM MadCat is utterly lethal at short range, and it's LaserVomit counterpart can leg most mechs in two shots. It's hands down the best mech in the game, with it's crazy speed, amazing hitboxes and incredible agility with JJ's.

The StormCrow with configurations in the same vein as above is also utterly lethal, though with less of an alpha. It's superior speed and agility make up for that.

While the DireWolf isn't going to win any type of sporting event, it can boat just about anything - but Dual Gauss + any other weapons = nothing that can stand in front of it. Even with the Crab, the 'Sphere still has nothing that can touch that.

Any Clan dropdeck with any combination of the above mechs is a winner. You can almost guarantee that other players will be running the same mechs, and their speed will all be similar (except for the Dire) meaning their deathballs happen naturally. The Sphere, on the other hand, has far more diversity, but this means that there will often be mechs with vastly different speeds, loadouts, and vulnerabilities, making any type of co-ordination for any group other than a 12 man an exercise in futility.

[hybrid black]

Cer6erus, on 20 December 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

I'm just curious as to how many more games I need to drop in and see 4-5 Thunderbolts all sitting on the boreal vault hill with triple ERPPCs before I go crazy.

Thunderbolt quirks... 50% less heat generated with ERPPC 25% faster firing rate. 12.5% faster speed.

They can fire these things for days on cold maps. And then when they finally die, welp, here comes the 7xMPLAS Thunderwub!.

That's only 130 tons on a drop deck. You still have room for an assault and a light. Or a heavy and a firestarter.

Maybe because I'm I clanner, I don't see all the frustrating builds you IS people deal with, but I'm getting really tired of all your over quirked mechs. Its one thing to 'balance' a mech for a single drop. But in CW you can spam these 'bad' mechs with disgusting quirks for days on end.

Am I the only one that feels this way? if so tell me to man up and get on with my life. If not, tell me how to deal with this stress.

or real men run 4 ER PPCs and have two 9s and then an SS

[Lord Ikka]

I run pure meta in my CW dropship- because CW is competition. Tbolts 9S and 5SS, Jager dual gauss, and Fiestarter S mpl-boat. The quirks mean that I can run these Mechs, of which only the Jager was comp before, and win with them against harder to kill/more deadly Clan builds. 12 IS vs 12 Clan is not equal, even with the reductions in range/increase in heat PGI gave their Clan Mechs. Quirks are away to give the IS some much needed help. Are the Tbolt quirks too much- not quite. They are just enough to give the IS a useful heavy energy sniper/brawler.

[Brody319]

Kiiyor, on 21 December 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

It's not really dumb - all of those mechs, with the possible exception of the HellBringer, are the most versatile in the game.

The 4xSRM MadCat is utterly lethal at short range, and it's LaserVomit counterpart can leg most mechs in two shots. It's hands down the best mech in the game, with it's crazy speed, amazing hitboxes and incredible agility with JJ's.

The StormCrow with configurations in the same vein as above is also utterly lethal, though with less of an alpha. It's superior speed and agility make up for that.

While the DireWolf isn't going to win any type of sporting event, it can boat just about anything - but Dual Gauss + any other weapons = nothing that can stand in front of it. Even with the Crab, the 'Sphere still has nothing that can touch that.

Any Clan dropdeck with any combination of the above mechs is a winner. You can almost guarantee that other players will be running the same mechs, and their speed will all be similar (except for the Dire) meaning their deathballs happen naturally. The Sphere, on the other hand, has far more diversity, but this means that there will often be mechs with vastly different speeds, loadouts, and vulnerabilities, making any type of co-ordination for any group other than a 12 man an exercise in futility.

Yes the Dashi is lethal..you know when its facing you, if you stand like 5 degrees to either side it cant hit you without twisting. which for any mech that moves faster than 60 kph, its easy to avoid its shots.

4 SRM Timberwolf isn't really that lethal. I mean the Jeager can run similar builds. the A specifically. Plus missiles make its side torsos even bigger. Great hitboxes is debatable. The tip of the nose is a CT, so just aiming for that will core it faster. The STs are pretty big, aim for the shoulders. Yea the hitboxes make it easy to twist to soak up damage, but it also makes it easy to hit the area you wanna hit.

Stormcrow's only problem is the broken hit boxes. If those were fixed the stormcrow's advantages would vanish quickly. If you just aim for its legs, you can kill it super quick.

[Kiiyor]

Brody319, on 21 December 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

Yes the Dashi is lethal..you know when its facing you, if you stand like 5 degrees to either side it cant hit you without twisting. which for any mech that moves faster than 60 kph, its easy to avoid its shots.

4 SRM Timberwolf isn't really that lethal. I mean the Jeager can run similar builds. the A specifically. Plus missiles make its side torsos even bigger. Great hitboxes is debatable. The tip of the nose is a CT, so just aiming for that will core it faster. The STs are pretty big, aim for the shoulders. Yea the hitboxes make it easy to twist to soak up damage, but it also makes it easy to hit the area you wanna hit.

Stormcrow's only problem is the broken hit boxes. If those were fixed the stormcrow's advantages would vanish quickly. If you just aim for its legs, you can kill it super quick.

True, but the Jager's heat efficiency is terrible with that loadout, and despite the high missile hardpoints, it's torso lasers are quite low, and it's hitboxes mean that it will likely lose a torso in a single salvo from a MadCat (I know from experience; over 2000 drops in Yagers, and I've never been able to make the A work). It's also far slower and less maneuverable than the MadCat. From the front, you could park 2 MadCats in the silhouette of a Yager.

The Crow is easily the king of the mediums, even without jumpjets (broken hitboxes aside - which from all reports have been rectified somewhat with the new hitreg fix). A well piloted Shawk can hurt it, but the pilot had better be on his game. The Crow's legs are quite vulnerable, but the nature of it's weapon hardpoints mean that you don't need to expose them at all to be able to fire all your weaponry. Brawling is a different matter, but I believe the Crow is a better striker than knife fighter anyway.

As for the Daishi, I've had no other mech that was as easy to drop in and annihilate everything. I was hesitant of the whole maneuverability thing on my first drop, but found that torso twist is a non-issue if you play the Dire to it's range advantage. Dual Gauss, a couple of Large pulse and a fistfull of ERML. The Crab is for brawling, the Dire is for killing.

Overall though, there are no mechs in the InnerSphere that can rival the MadCat. It is pretty much the best at everything. It has amazing firepower, survivability and agility - whereas no InnerSphere mech can pick more than two of those. The only mechs people claim to be able to compete with them are edge cases.

This is all IMHO, of course, but it appears to be a sentiment that is more than echoed by the community at whole.

[MischiefSC]

Kiiyor, on 21 December 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

True, but the Jager's heat efficiency is terrible with that loadout, and despite the high missile hardpoints, it's torso lasers are quite low, and it's hitboxes mean that it will likely lose a torso in a single salvo from a MadCat (I know from experience; over 2000 drops in Yagers, and I've never been able to make the A work). It's also far slower and less maneuverable than the MadCat. From the front, you could park 2 MadCats in the silhouette of a Yager.

The Crow is easily the king of the mediums, even without jumpjets (broken hitboxes aside - which from all reports have been rectified somewhat with the new hitreg fix). A well piloted Shawk can hurt it, but the pilot had better be on his game. The Crow's legs are quite vulnerable, but the nature of it's weapon hardpoints mean that you don't need to expose them at all to be able to fire all your weaponry. Brawling is a different matter, but I believe the Crow is a better striker than knife fighter anyway.

As for the Daishi, I've had no other mech that was as easy to drop in and annihilate everything. I was hesitant of the whole maneuverability thing on my first drop, but found that torso twist is a non-issue if you play the Dire to it's range advantage. Dual Gauss, a couple of Large pulse and a fistfull of ERML. The Crab is for brawling, the Dire is for killing.

Overall though, there are no mechs in the InnerSphere that can rival the MadCat. It is pretty much the best at everything. It has amazing firepower, survivability and agility - whereas no InnerSphere mech can pick more than two of those. The only mechs people claim to be able to compete with them are edge cases.

This is all IMHO, of course, but it appears to be a sentiment that is more than echoed by the community at whole.

It is worth mentioning that most the comp teams went Clanner for a *reason*. They have the most comp mechs. Ton for ton, killing mechs with a variety of loadouts, TW and Stormcrow dominate. that's why the comp teams went Clan. It would be disingenuous to say otherwise.

CW though isn't about putting mechs down. That's part of why it's critical that it not turn into skirmish. If it does it'll just be comp teams grinding pugs up in 48-0 matches. The need for them to deal with more than a straight fight, kill-for-kill is what balances CW.

[Spr1ggan]

Budor, on 20 December 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

LOL WAT?!

To be fair Budor it is quite squishy when you play against people that go for it's legs. Tanks torso damage nicely though. Then again most mechs die fast when the legs are focused.

Edited by McHarg, 21 December 2014 - 01:21 AM.

[Onmyoudo]

I don't think nerfing a newly competitive mech with obvious barn-door disadvantages is the knee-jerk reaction we should be looking for, is it? Surely we should be aiming to make all mechs equally competitive instead, including the Nova etc.

[Budor]

McHarg, on 21 December 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

To be fair Budor it is quite squishy when you play against people that go for it's legs. Tanks torso damage nicely though. Then again most mechs die fast when the legs are focused.

Thats the case , like you said, with most mechs. But most dont have the leg armor of a 75 tonner, and cant do the magic JJ drop. When i think of squishy chassi the Timberwolf doesnt come to my mind at all.

[Kotev]

I too have witnesed T-bolts on cold map firing consecutive PPC at me without overheating maybe 5-6 before i went hiding and i think is too much. Also a Centurion with firepower and tanking like a Atlas and many more overpowered IS mechs. Clan also have good mechs like TW and StCrow but with quirk system IS have some very overpowerd mechs. Exemple: firing 4xSRM-6 three times with my Timber on Centurion CT from 20 meters away and his armor went to red but no internals ?!?!?

[Brizna]

I can see IS pilots taking more and more TDRs and I can see claner complaining more and more about that,
I can see claners taking more and more stormcrows and timbers and IS player complaining, well complining just as much as ever, which is a lot btw.

FIX: Give clan Thunders and IS Stormcrows and Timbers

Jokes apart all those mechs (and probably FS7-A too) are OP, that said apparently Russ said it's OK for Timber to ever be the best mech (best=OP) so I supose clans can live with some IS mech being a bit OP too.

[ice trey]

Actually, I see the same sort of stuff when pitted against clanners. Barrages of mainly PPCs, with backup of ERLL and LRMs from whoever took Timber Wolves.

It's probably no small part why IS players don't seem to want to attack clan worlds.

[Molossian Dog]

Alistair Winter, on 20 December 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

This is what happens when PGI wants to buff every mech in the game to be almost as good as the Timber Wolf (but not quite as good, because reasons), instead of just nerfing the Timber Wolf.

Quoted for truth.

The real question is...why the boink? Why do they go to such lenghts just to avoid nerfing the goddamn Timberderp?

Fearful all the fanboys are gonna wail and stop spending insane amounts of money? What other reason could it be?

[Chemie]

Brody319, on 20 December 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

I think it would be better if they reduced the heat reduction a bit, maybe 30-40%. then make it for PPCs not ERPPCs.

Then it will run decent but will suffer in brawling range.

I am sure you would like that so clan mechs can run ERML and ERLL all day long without being shot.

[Alistair Winter]

Molossian Dog, on 21 December 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

Quoted for truth.
The real question is...why the boink? Why do they go to such lenghts just to avoid nerfing the goddamn Timberderp?
Fearful all the fanboys are gonna wail and stop spending insane amounts of money? What other reason could it be?

Usually, I like explanations such as this. I prefer rational explanations. But in this particular case, I think it's an irrational desire to make the Timber Wolf the alpha dog. Russ Bullock went out and said that the Timber Wolf would always be the best heavy mech, without giving any explanation, as if this was a universal law that could not be negotiated. As if the devs were powerless to do anything about it.

While they are game developers, they are also fans of Battletech, so they're not above irrational choices sometimes. This seems to be one of them.