202 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Astrocanis, on 21 December 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

Really?

Map would indicate otherwise...
http://mwomercs.com/...se/page__st__60

2 of the clans didn't get much planets (besides getting it off other clans, which lead to smoke jaguar losing more then they had at the start from what I can see) while wolf barely has any difference due to losing planets to ghost bear. leaving only jade falcon expanding quite a bit into the Inner sphere. However stiener isn't fairing well in general. It looks like they took losses to every faction at least once with no recovery.

[Demuder]

For all those having problems beating the extremely overpowered and unfair TBR/SCR dropdeck, here's the solution:

1 BSH for ultra dacca dacca - while they lick you with their hitscan ACs/high duration, overheating lasers
1 TDR9S for ultra-PPC - while they lick you with their hitscan ACs/high duration, overheating lasers
1 HBK for awesome AC20 brawling and oneshot-ting - while they lick you with their hitscan ACs/high duration, overheating lasers
1 Spider for an unrivaled light - you don't even get licked/no capable lights to chase you down

And that's just off the top of my head. I am pretty sure I can come up with much nastier stuff if someone really needs some more hand-holding - think Stalkers or King Crabs. Hell, even the Awesome can give you trouble post-quirk. Now if anyone can tell me with a straight face they can't beat a TBR/SCR dropdeck with this... I am not saying it will be easy - and hey, you might even lose half the time, but that's the balance you are after. Right? Right.....

And yes, that's four mechs. Play the game a couple of months, buy the mechs, enjoy.

And you do know, that if a Clanner drops with the dreaded Direwhale, the rest of their deck is pretty crappy. They are dropping with 2/3s of the tonnage essentially - how come noone asks for a buff to the rest of the clan mechs so that they are actually worth their tonnage ?

And get over Boreal already. It's cold, so Clans don't overheat that much. You got that Sulfuric hell to balance it out though.

And pro tip of the day, keep the pressure on, there's no Clan mech that can keep up with IS when it comes to heat management. Sure, those first couple alphas will hurt, but after that, it easily devolves into a turkey shoot if you closed the distance.

And finally, did I mention the lost art of torso-twisting ? You probably forgot about it because you don't see any Clanner doing it - since it's useless with most of their hitboxes or against PPFLD or when at least half your weapons are on your friggin' arms. Afterall, how can you torso-twist when even your ACs are hitscan? Guess where torso-twisting is extremely effective.... that's right, when fired upon by omg op long duration overheating lasers !

Edited by Demuder, 22 December 2014 - 02:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Carcass23, on 21 December 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

We need 5 more threads complaining about this topic and we win a toaster!

I knew you were ComStar!

[ST0RM3R]

Just LOL and enough of that.

[mad kat]

What's fundamentally missing from this is the Resource imbalance between IS and Clan.

The clans should NOT have four drops. Period.

The inner sphere has the resources to drop more mechs in batle vs the clans Supposed superior tech. Four drops for the IS is fine but two for the clanners is probably too few so three should be tried. Additionaly clan use of Artillery and air strikes should be seriously limited as the clans seldom used it. They did not even use dropships to attack attacking forces as they felt ground units were the deciders of the outcome not the dropships.

It will continue like this until the Clanners have to be more shrewd over their resources. As it stands its a gross imbalance. Is like the Sherman vs tiger argument all over again. You would not pitch one sherman against a tiger you would pitch two or three thats how it worked (okay not always).

Note i am not saying clans are OP as mono et mono they aren't a lot of the time, i'm stating that the balance is uneven.

Edited by mad kat, 22 December 2014 - 04:46 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

mad kat, on 22 December 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

What's fundamentally missing from this is the Resource imbalance between IS and Clan.

The clans should NOT have four drops. Period.

The inner sphere has the resources to drop more mechs in batle vs the clans Supposed superior tech. Four drops for the IS is fine but two for the clanners is probably too few so three should be tried. Additionaly clan use of Artillery and air strikes should be seriously limited as the clans seldom used it. They did not even use dropships to attack attacking forces as they felt ground units were the deciders of the outcome not the dropships.

It will continue like this until the Clanners have to be more shrewd over their resources. As it stands its a gross imbalance. Is like the Sherman vs tiger argument all over again. You would not pitch one sherman against a tiger you would pitch two or three thats how it worked (okay not always).

Note i am not saying clans are OP as mono et mono they aren't a lot of the time, i'm stating that the balance is uneven.

Then Clan mechs should be buffed to their actual superior state.

[mad kat]

DV McKenna, on 22 December 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Then Clan mechs should be buffed to their actual superior state.

I agree with you.

The only problem is then the public queue would go awry as everyone would just use clan mechs in a 12v12 so its a tricky topic.

[Willard Phule]

Wow, talk about getting derailed.....what started out as a whine about how the Clans are overpowered by someone that doesn't have a clue ended up as a "this is how you build a mech that doesn't overheat" thread.

Look people, the Clans are NOT overpowered. Why do I say that? Because Paul has beaten everything with the word "Clan" in it to a pulp with his Football Bat at least three times. Jesus Christ, what do we have to do to make the New Players in their IS Trial Mechs happy? Make everything Clan do 1 point of damage for 50 points of heat at a maximum range of 10 feet? Will that work for you?

I mean, at this point, you can kiss the whole Invasion goodbye. There's absolutely NO POINT in continuing because PGI has no clue how the timeline is actually supposed to work.

The marriage of Hanse Davion to Melissa Steiner never happened. The Lyran Commonwealth and the Federated Suns never combined to become the Federated Commonwealth. The Fourth Succession War never happened. The Clan Invasion is happening but does not have a single leader (The ILKHAN) telling the Clans to stop attacking each other and focus on Terra.

At the rate things are going, the FRR will push the Ghost Bears back to the Kerensky Cluster, then will turn and do the same to the Wolves and the Falcons. Which makes sense because the IS forces are SUPPOSED to be numerically and technologically superior to the inbred Clans which suffer from their technology being blasted to the stone age by all the infighting they did to determine who was going to control the Inner....wait....wow....I must have that backward.

HOLY CRAP, I'M TURNING INTO A CANADIAN!

[Cygone]

People complaining here have no mentioned one VERY important fact. The ELO difference Is way in favour of the Clans for the players that spend a lot of time playing CW. Nearly every competitive (read: ALL) went Clan, IS are losing, because. A. Clans have the better players. B. Clans have the more active players.

[Basilisk222]

I'm not sure I really agree here. I don't think clans are OP in CW. I would say they are very good on the defensive.

Due to the way clan mechs are set up in general, they don't really attack well, they can bust a hole and then tread through but you're pretty hot 1/2 way through a push. This ends up really limiting your options.

I don't really have as much of a problem with IS mechs. As long as IS keeps pressure, we have a really hard time keeping up our DPS.

Thing is, i've been the guardian of that cannon more times than I can count and when I've played a good team, they clear then blow the cannon. A poor team sends mechs in and tells them to only focus the cannon. You're not going to blow up the cannon getting pummeled by a Dire Wolf.

When good teams focus and set to getting somewhere, they don't have trouble. IS never seems to utilize their superior speed in matches I've played. It's just rush Clans can slice through IS in bursts, IS can easily run multiple fronts, and I've seen it work. I've seen IS break clans at the gates.

Learn some tactics, use your strengths, make your opponents play to your offense/defense. You want to win? You have to have brains AND brawn. Your loadouts won't save your inadequacies anymore.

[ztac]

If the clans were so OP as people claim then the CW map would not be so stagnant ..... nothing has changed for some time now (a few days) , Must be because the clans are so OP! This morning we had maybe a 50% win rate on one objective... now its down to 0% .. Yes clans are so OP they are losing!

There is a lot more at work than meets the eye and right now the system favours IS. CW is a great idea that has been badly implemented it would seem. A lot more thought should have really gone into it , but alas no!

[Conduitx]

Is it just irony that every post I see on the forum claiming Clans are balanced, is from a clanner?

I'm all for the lore, but when it comes to online gaming people want to have fun, not feel frustrated. And when it comes to competitive online gaming, players don't want to be at a disadvantage versus other players. Let's be honest, Clan mechs are on a slightly higher tier then most IS mechs at the moment, especially with energy weapons... the level of laser vomit is making me dizzy.

If you want to scream lore! then yes, Clan mechs are suppose to be OP in lore, but like another person posted they are suppose to have a numerical disadvantage and an honor system, something I don't see in any of the Clans at the moment

Edited by Conduitx, 22 December 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Red Legs Greaves]

Cygone, on 22 December 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

People complaining here have no mentioned one VERY important fact. The ELO difference Is way in favour of the Clans for the players that spend a lot of time playing CW. Nearly every competitive (read: ALL) went Clan, IS are losing, because. A. Clans have the better players. B. Clans have the more active players.

I think you would disagree with this when you into a group of the 228th or the Skye Rangers or any other of the IS elite units. Also if clans are so OP how come I am 1 for 5 for attacking? Aren't they so powerful that I should be able to wade through the broken IS mechs even without a confident team?

Also whom do I call about the toaster?

[Kdogg788]

I think you guys are ignoring the REAL problem. In an attempt to give members of the southern houses (Davion, Marik, Liao) the ability the fight clans, PGI has setup the matchmaker to allow coordinated clan groups to play mismatched batches of IS pugs from differing houses. You cannot even setup a house defense because at least half the team could be assorted from completely different houses. This matchmaking imbalance equals an auto clan win almost every time it happens.

-k

[charov]

Conduitx, on 22 December 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Is it just irony that every post I see on the forum claiming Clans are balanced, is from a clanner?

'cause I'm a founder, I play since closed beta and had good results with my team playing IS mechs in several tournaments.
I choose the clans just a few days ago for their lore, nothing else. Many other old players want to try something different from what they have played in the last 2 years.

Fact is that most of IS PUG players are quite bad players. Really, you can se tons of guys running with embarassing builds, without focusing their fire, forgetting about covers and without playing as a team.
Even if I play as a solo, I always ask for people to join in Teamspeak or I use the chat to coordinate with my team. However, quite often you see some IS players complaining because their team is made of 12 rambos and do not talk or collaborate. Guess what happens then.

You IS players do have some of the best mechs ATM. Tbolts are really good as PPC boats or wub boats. You have the best lights and best brawlers. However, when you see and Atlas with Gauss and XL complaining that the Clans are OP, well..

[Rhaythe]

I'm not convinced that ClanTech is OP. Though I might be convinced that the Timberwolf and Stormcrow are insanely good for their weight classes. Take those two mechs away, and I have to wonder if we'd still be having these discussions.

[Kdogg788]

Well it would help if they only allowed the faction defending to actually defend. When the team is made up of half Davion, Liao, Marik, Steiner, et. all, it is impossible to coordinate much. This is also why you don't have many IS/IS matches. Everyone is tied up on the clan front because they are allowed to drop on fronts not of their own.

-k

[Scratx]

Conduitx, on 22 December 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Is it just irony that every post I see on the forum claiming Clans are balanced, is from a clanner?

I'm all for the lore, but when it comes to online gaming people want to have fun, not feel frustrated. And when it comes to competitive online gaming, players don't want to be at a disadvantage versus other players. Let's be honest, Clan mechs are on a slightly higher tier then most IS mechs at the moment, especially with energy weapons... the level of laser vomit is making me dizzy.

If you want to scream lore! then yes, Clan mechs are suppose to be OP in lore, but like another person posted they are suppose to have a numerical disadvantage and an honor system, something I don't see in any of the Clans at the moment

It takes playing clan mechs for a non-trivial amount of time to realise their shortcomings. Too many times clan detractors cherry-pick what clan mechs are good as the reasons why they're OP while forgetting that they're not as good in other things, or that there are IS mechs that can do the same thing but better.

Seriously, name me a clan mech that can outrange a Locust 1V. That's right, there isn't any. How about a Thunderbolt with triple ERPPC? Half heat ERPPC... that alone forgives for most of the chassis' faults and lacking splash damage. Ammo-less 30 PPFLD with very long range and almost ridiculously low heat, what's not to like? Thunderwub? Oh god get that thing out of my face KILL IT WITH FIRE BEFORE IT GETS CLOSE TO ME OH GOD I'M MELTING... Dragon 1N, more DPS (especially sustained) than a f***ing Dire Wolf. Yeah, it's a Dragon, but if you can't see uses for something with that much sheer firepower at a mere 60 tons in a CW dropdeck then you're unimaginative. GaussJager? High mounted dual gauss, still very good. Name me a clan mech with high mounted ballistic guns? None except the Kit Fox (no tonnage for dual gauss) or the Summoner (... no tonnage for dual gauss either! ). Wolverines? See Fantastic Tuesday on Youtube. Firestarters? ... still the best dang light mechs in the game, making a mockery of clan lights.

Etc...

Seriously, the only thing clan mechs are "OP" in is that they're hard to f*** up when configuring their podspace. They're almost newbie proof because you can't do stupid s*** like putting XL in Stalkers or Atlases. Their base performance level is consistent and even their stock configs are rarely useless. Not optimal but you can fight credibly with all of them. And they play well with each other because the majority of the mechs have similar speeds.

You can make a clanbuster drop-deck using just the IS mechs that already exist. All it takes is doing your research.

Now, actually beating the other team in a CW match, IS or Clan? That takes Teamwork, which is the only truly OP thing in Mechwarrior Online.

Perhaps those who complain about Clans should try Teamwork first.

[Demuder]

Conduitx, on 22 December 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Is it just irony that every post I see on the forum claiming Clans are balanced, is from a clanner?

I'm all for the lore, but when it comes to online gaming people want to have fun, not feel frustrated. And when it comes to competitive online gaming, players don't want to be at a disadvantage versus other players. Let's be honest, Clan mechs are on a slightly higher tier then most IS mechs at the moment, especially with energy weapons... the level of laser vomit is making me dizzy.

If you want to scream lore! then yes, Clan mechs are suppose to be OP in lore, but like another person posted they are suppose to have a numerical disadvantage and an honor system, something I don't see in any of the Clans at the moment

Or maybe it's because they actually play Clan mechs, and they have also played IS mechs in the past until mechs got released and are able to compare the two. Or maybe because in their OP Clan mechs they really have a hard time even going 100m from the gates when the IS opposition knows what they are doing. That comment alone shows that you have not played Clan mechs at all, at least in CW environment.

There's also several people playing IS mechs atm that say that Clans are pretty much ok, you just have to look for them.

And sure, we are not following Lore. There's reasons for that and reasons for the opposite, PGI is trying to walk a very thin line here.

[Red Legs Greaves]

Kdogg788, on 22 December 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Well it would help if they only allowed the faction defending to actually defend. When the team is made up of half Davion, Liao, Marik, Steiner, et. all, it is impossible to coordinate much. This is also why you don't have many IS/IS matches. Everyone is tied up on the clan front because they are allowed to drop on fronts not of their own.

-k

The defending faction can have a full 12man defend, we've ran into a few. The problem is the good units don't usually defend because it is much easier to attack a bunch of pugs somewhere else. Like you said if they just had a faction defend its own planets it might be different, but then you into population problems with not getting enough people to properly attack and defend.