1453 R, on 22 December 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:
There is indeed, and I would love nothing more than to see other ‘Mechs be able to compete against the Timber Wolf. What I don’t want is to see the Timber Wolf horribly nerfhammered because people feel that bringing the Wolf down to the Summoner’s level is the way to go, because CORERULE IGNORE.
Buffing the Summoner would also require the ignoring of core rules.
1453 R, on 22 December 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:
You misunderstand me, Fup. Totally understandable as I wasn’t entirely clear before, my mistake. What I want isn’t for the current imbalance to remain, but for the Timber Wolf to remain a Tier 1 top threat. Even in an ideal tierless world, the Timber Wolf should be one of those ‘Mechs that make you sit up and pay attention when you spot it on the other side. As should the Fatlas, and in fact it kinda depresses me a bi that the Fatlas is as mediocre as it is. I suppose it’s simply that I’m enough of an old lore hound that it makes me a little upset to see people arguing that things like the GOD DAMNED CATAPHRACT (I can’t begin to tell you how much it absolutely infuriates me that the Cataphract of all things is the top end of IS heavy ‘Mechs) should represent the absolute top of the heavy ‘Mech curve and nothing else should ever be better than the Cataphract is at anything, except maybe being fast like the Dragon or Quickdraw but those suck anyways so let them have that one thing.
The Timber Wolf is known as a nearly ideal blend of durability, mobility, and firepower. Other Clan heavies can alter that blend as needed to carve out their own niche – I’d love to see the Summoner graced with extra agility both on the ground and in the air to make it a better hit-and-hide raider, the Hellbringer’s already a boxful of crazy that appeals to whackos, even without the Jesus Box, and the Mad Dog’s A shoulder pods make it pretty much the undisputed king of Clan missile boating – but I also would like to see the Timber Wolf retain its smoothly blended perfection if at all possible. Unlike the folks who want to remove the mobility part of the equation and make it turn like a Banshee, a’la the old Victor Giganerf.
Again, I’d love a game where more specialized pilots gravitate naturally towards one of the other chassis, but in which the Timber Wolf remains an excellent all-rounder choice for pilots who want to cover as many bases as possible in the interim. I’d probably do a lot more work in the Summoner myself if it were configured more as a raider-skirmisher, rather than trying to make it a weirdly shaped Timber Wolf on a five-ton diet. Wider twist arcs, faster twist and turn, better jump performance, better accel/decal. Make it dance, since it can’t really shoot worth much of a damn.
The distinction is that a mech doesn't need to be better than the rest to be "feared" or worthy of being cautious around. It just has to pose a worthwhile threat. A Hunchback ain't no Doomcrow but I still tend to have caution if I see them aiming that shoulder cannon my way...
In regards to specific nerfing ideas, I've long been opposed to specific things like agility reductions because I still have a sad from when they did that to the Victor.
My own nerfs, if they ever happened, would be a set of smaller "general" nerfs that don't try to push it in one direction or the other (don't drastically reduce effectiveness in one area, rather slightly reduce effectiveness in multiple areas). My goal would be the keep the overall "shape" or distribution (ratios) of the power triangle about the same, while pulling in each corner somewhat. Sort of like reducing the fraction of 2/4 to 1/2 (same ratio, smaller numbers...but not exactly a good arbitrary example because I wouldn't cut the mech's effectiveness by half).
Or, as per this thread, skip that entirely and buff up everything else (i.e. more Thor agility/mobility). Or some of both, or whatever.
1453 R, on 22 December 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:
Heh…I’m going to commit a grave, grave Internet Gaming Guy sin here.
I hate TF2.
I hate it specifically because there is no Timber Wolf. There’s no generalist class where you can learn the ropes of the game and figure out where you want to differentiate from. Each and every TF2 class is a quirky, crazy mess with serious drawbacks, usually more than one, to offset its one given gimmick. The entire game is a pile of gimmicks that proved too difficult and bound up in its own crap for me to pick up when a few friends told me to pick it up.
A game needs its generalist set-ups for people who prefer generalists, or as platforms to learn the game on. The Mario is a thing (on TVTropes, at least) for a reason, and the Timber Wolf manages to pull off The Mario in an absolutely beautiful manner. Yes, it could probably use some toning down, and things like the Summoner could definitely use some toning up, but I don’t see why that means we have to knock the Wolf on the head and overdo everything else such that the differences between ‘Mechs are comically, tragically over exaggerated, a’la the IS Quirkening. Or TF2.
I'd say that the closest thing to a TBR in TF2 would be the Soldier, given that he has good health, mobility (rocket jumping), and damage output at all ranges (rocket launcher), and a somewhat low skill floor while having a very high skill ceiling.
A well played Demoman (with his stickybombs and grenades equipped instead of swords and shields) is also pretty versatile but has a much higher skill floor.
Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:
which is my point. SO take the Nova. How do you extend or move the hitboxes? You literally can hit every location desired form any place around the mech. Want an arm? Go ahead! ST? Sure, why not!!!!! CT? Go for it!
No matter how you gumby it, it can't tank like a Shadowhawk or Centurion.
It doesn't need to be as tanky as a Shad or Cent, it could just be nice to have it a bit tougher than it presently is. In fact, given its abundance of hardpoints, it would be good for it to NOT be as tanky because having high firepower and high durability might be crazy.
Edited by FupDup, 22 December 2014 - 01:40 PM.
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