1236 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 08 January 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

I'm not trying to poke at you because I think we are on the same page at this point with the Summoner.

To be fair, the Summoner can take one big freaking gun. The trouble is when you try to load 2 big freaking guns plus more stuff (read: missiles).



Otherwise the Summoner can run

Gauss + CERPPC
LB20 + CERPPC (While not a great build, this is actually pretty fun if you can get into brawl ranges)
LB 10 + CERPPC
2x CERPPC (This build would be amazing if the damned thing had high Torso E mounts - because the Summoner jumps like a champ at the moment)




I like the halfweight JJ idea for SMN & NVA, I even championed it early on.

2.5 tons, but the mech gets to keep all of its crit slots and the devs don't have to touch the locked endo/ferro hot button issue.

Hey, I'll freely admit, I just really want the Summoner Prime, stock to have HALF the effectiveness it had in TT or other MW titles.

It's really close, and with just a bit less heat from the PPC, a little more ammo and faster fire rate from the LB-X it could be the skirmisher it's meant to be.

I really don't care what Meta builds people do with it after, lol. I like the Summoner because it's supposed to be that bridge between the Shadowhawk and Victor, for mobile ambushers and harassers. And because of double armor and such, it just doesn't quite make it.

The halfweight JJs are not a terrible idea, but I still feel that "Endo 4 the Poor" achieves it better, and benefits more unprivileged chassis than anything else.

[FupDup]

As an interesting note, CGL actually already power-creeped the Thor in Tabletop by introducing the Thor II (proper name Grand Summoner).



The torso is kinda fugly, but the stats are pretty damn good.

Tonnage: 70 (no changes)
Engine: XL350 (no changes)
Armor Type: FF (no changes)
Structure Type: Endo (improvement)
Hardwired Equipment: None (improvement)
Pod Space with roughly max armor: 29.5 (huge improvement, superior to the TBR)

Prime: 4E + 2B + 1M (like my Hellbringer, but on steroids)
Alt A: 1E + 1B + 2M + 5JJ (basically stock Summoner Prime 2.0)
Alt B: 6M + 2E (missile boat god)
Alt C: 1B + 3E + 1M (not amazing, but workable and good)
Alt D: 4E + 1M (fairly decent but not amazing, obsolete to the Prime)


The only flaw is that it isn't available until 3118...

Edited by FupDup, 08 January 2015 - 10:52 AM.

[Brody319]

FupDup, on 08 January 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

As an interesting note, CGL actually already power-creeped the Thor in Tabletop by introducing the Thor II (proper name Grand Summoner).



The torso is kinda fugly, but the stats are pretty damn good.

Tonnage: 70 (no changes)
Engine: XL350 (no changes)
Armor Type: FF (no changes)
Structure Type: Endo (improvement)
Hardwired Equipment: None (improvement)
Pod Space with roughly max armor: 29.5 (huge improvement, superior to the TBR)

Prime: 4E + 2B + 1M (like my Hellbringer, but on steroids)
Alt A: 1E + 1B + 2M + 5JJ (basically stock Summoner Prime 2.0)
Alt B: 6M + 2E (missile boat god)
Alt C: 1B + 3E + 1M (not amazing, but workable and good)
Alt D: 4E + 1M (fairly decent but not amazing, obsolete to the Prime)


The only flaw is that it isn't available until 3118...

Remove the JJs, add some omnipods and the Summoner can be the Grand Summoner.

[Kain Demos]

Brody319, on 08 January 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

Remove the JJs, add some omnipods and the Summoner can be the Grand Summoner.

It has Endo.

[Brody319]

Kain Thul, on 08 January 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

It has Endo.

I meant spiritually.

[Kain Demos]

Kuritaclan, on 08 January 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Hell i would like to run such a build. As it stands dual gauss is no option for clans untill you are in DWF. I think tears would rain on IS side if we had a hbr running dual gauss or smn doing so and ofc TBRs. Since is can do it with a 65 ton mech using xls and and get killed fast for this kind of play, on clan side it would be devastating.



I do not need the 20kph when i can damage @ a mile away everything heavly without overheating using lls/ppcs and than go clean up on 400 to 500m. Gauss is a damn good thing on clan mechs, since it is so heat efficient/has no splash or crazy long durations and you get 30rounds of ammo for the same weight it cost the IS Players having no downsides but a pretty great upside utilize it with the hot E/M wepons on clan mechs.

Warhawk does dual gauss and makes it look easy. Timberwolf can do it too, but you must strip armor from the "shield side" and run both gauss on the same side.

There is a Mad Dog variant that does it as well but its not in game yet--we can't make it with the pods we have available either.

Edited by Kain Thul, 08 January 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 08 January 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

I meant spiritually.

Add endo, and it IS the Grand Summoner, where it counts, physically. I'm not a Nova Cat. Spiritually doesn't do it for me.

Also, the Grand Summoner is UGLY.

[Brody319]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

Add endo, and it IS the Grand Summoner, where it counts, physically. I'm not a Nova Cat. Spiritually doesn't do it for me.

Also, the Grand Summoner is UGLY.

most of the early art for this series is ugly as sin.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 08 January 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

most of the early art for this series is ugly as sin.

Grand Summoner was not early art. It was part of the MW:DA designs form 2003.

[Brody319]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Grand Summoner was not early art. It was part of the MW:DA designs form 2003.

well..it could be the firemoth...so I think it looks fantastic!.

[Kuritaclan]

Kain Thul, on 08 January 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

Warhawk does dual gauss and makes it look easy. Timberwolf can do it too, but you must strip armor from the "shield side" and run both gauss on the same side.

There is a Mad Dog variant that does it as well but its not in game yet--we can't make it with the pods we have available either.

Yes, but the WHK have flaws because of the hard coded DHSs which you would not need and only 1 E slot doing dualgauss with bad convergancy and only 8,5t space for ammo/weapons on full armor. The TBR has Shield side, but you are poorly only running those two gauss and have no backup weapons since without JJs you have 3,5t space for ammo/other weapons and full armor. MDD could do it, and has same problems with ammo and no backup weapons to make a use of the heat efficency coming along with gauss. SMN/HBR cant equip 2 gauss without stripping armor and then he have no free tonnage left for ammo and/or backup weapons. So in the end your argument is ok, but the gauss heat neutral effect can't be used proper to full effect on the given Clan Mechs beside of the Dire.

And therefor running lighter XL Engines in all Clan Mechs would make a big impact for the use of dual gauss. I won't complain to do so. I would like it. With the highspeed Engines clans are forced into the srm/laser vomit loadouts. Well IS Players complainingn about the range of laser, but they would really be upset if clans could use even more of their equipment. A 75kp/h TBR is not slow but would have much better Speed/Punch/Heat relations as it stand with the hardcoded XL 375. Other clanmechs would step up too with free engine choice.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 January 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Brody319, on 08 January 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

well..it could be the firemoth...so I think it looks fantastic!.

[ArchSight]

I recently made a high DPS load out for the summoner and it doesn't involve the quirked arms. The Quirked arms if used would lower the DPS of the mech due to taking away hard points the mech can run. More weapons = Higher DPS, This makes the disconnect between quirks and the mech true because cool down reduction quirks would only help high DPS loadouts.

The two Cool Down Quirks either need to be moved to the torsos, heavily buffed, or changed to make up for loosing a hard point.
A increase in hard point's in the torso will only further the fact it doesn't need the quirked arms to reach it's highest DPS load out.
Also a Hero summoner Clan mech would open up the pay to win discussion. Should it be allowed to freely change hard points still when those hero hard points could be apart of a winning build that does flat out better than other builds? Hopefully new releases of clan mech variant's are not hero mechs yet.

For the lrm jumper in CW I don't know yet if it's possible to narc a generator for missile lock. For dumb firing lrms at the generator I do know that the angle is going to be about the same as with direct fire weapons.

Edited by ArchSight, 08 January 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

http://mwomercs.com/...-or-storm-crow/

[Bishop Steiner]

well over 100 matches bone stock now. (183 total in the Prime now)

1.75 KDr (actually went up, from the 1.4 I was running after 70 matches)
.98 W/L

avg damage has gone done, was at 352 per match, now at 312.

It's very difficult to break 600 damage with only 1 ton LB-10X ammo, and 2 tons of reloads for your LRM15. And in less than a half dozen shots, especially if I jump any, my ER-PPC by itself has me in constant shutdown danger.

103 total deaths, but only 41 in the last 100 matches. 180 total kills, 101 in the last 100 matches. On my "high" damage matches (5-700 dmg range) it seems to be when I get no kills at all, lol. And in the mandatory 25-30% facerolling stomps the MM dictates you have to have, and it's not a stat machine.

What it is?

Unbelievably tough, in most cases. I run the stock armor, and it sheds damage like a boss. Love how solid it is. And the agility and jumping feel real good on it. And even the limited 3 gun arsenal? Not bad. The limiting factor is that ammo and heat. You have to run it like a big shadowhawk, but that keeps it hot.

If I was able to simply add more ammo to the stock weapons? breaking 1000 dmg with some degree of regularity would not be too difficult.

I think for me the most frustrating thing with the Summoner..... is it's so close to being GOOD, that you can see and taste it..... but keep falling just short of achieving it.

[Scout Derek]

Stats of my Summoner:
SUMMONER SMN-PRIME(I)
Total games: 569
Won:269
Lost:232
Win loss ratio:1.16
Kills :564
Loss :320
KDR Ratio:1.76
Damage done:191,948
Total experience earned :08,328
Total time played:2 days 01:10:48
You tell me that the summoner isn't a good mech, or simply not piloted correctly(by the way, haven't touched it for 3 months. No other mech that I have has that kind of time put into it.)

[Bishop Steiner]

Scout Derek, on 09 January 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Stats of my Summoner:
SUMMONER SMN-PRIME(I)
Total games: 569
Won:269
Lost:232
Win loss ratio:1.16
Kills :564
Loss :320
KDR Ratio:1.76
Damage done:191,948
Total experience earned :08,328
Total time played:2 days 01:10:48
You tell me that the summoner isn't a good mech, or simply not piloted correctly(by the way, haven't touched it for 3 months. No other mech that I have has that kind of time put into it.)

My good mechs have about 3x the KDr either of us listed.

It's not a bad mech, but it's certainly not a good one, either.

[Metus regem]

At the moment it is average. But I do enjoy rocking a UAC 20, ERLL and a SRM 6. It is fun when you can go unnoticed.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 09 January 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

At the moment it is average. But I do enjoy rocking a UAC 20, ERLL and a SRM 6. It is fun when you can go unnoticed.

and that's the devil in the details.

Any mech is good if it's not noticed. Mind you, for a heavy, the Summoner has the goods to maneuver well enough to avoid a lot of head on fights, but there are a lot of Medium Mechs , Clan and IS, that can do that, and do it better, and without costing your team/unit a heavy slot.

[Scout Derek]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

My good mechs have about 3x the KDr either of us listed.

It's not a bad mech, but it's certainly not a good one, either.

You know what's funny about what you said? You're a full time player, while I'm a part time. For you to say that you have mechs 3x my summoners stats.... that's sort of pitiful in a way, is it not?