236 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Keep the short range, reduce CoF (but do not eliminate entirely) and remove hit-scan. Heat would be ridiculous for something that is still so weak and also has an ammo requirement. We don't need AC/2: Electric Boogaloo.

If you buff RoF to make it 1 DPS, the ammo requirement becomes an even better check against its potency because it will penalize missed or excessive shots to a greater extent.

[Burktross]

Wish they acted more like they do in TT. Actually moderately useful vs. armor.
I also wish we had through armor crits, but you know.
We can dream.

Or... you know...
Non lethal crits...
Gyro hits...
actuator destruction...
*Sob*

[wanderer]

MG's won't generally show up as a "primary anti-Mech" weapon because they weren't. in the 3025 era, they were secondary weapons that also had the useful ability to mow down dozens of infantry without wasting precious cooling capacity on much less efficient methods.

PPCs wreck a 'Mech. They kill 1-2 infantry per shot (and only 2 if they catch the infantry out in the open!). An MG may only do 2 damage to a 'Mech- but it kills a dozen or so infantry and you don't have to discharge your heat-hungry main gun to do it- and they'll contribute in close combat to killing a 'Mech as well.

Infantry tends to come in packs of 21-28 per. Needless to say, a 'Mech without MG's or a flamer is slowly whittling down infantry units....while it's generally chewing on the 'Mech with alacrity like a pack of fire ants. MG's aren't the most efficient 'Mech killer in terms of damage, but they're certainly quite capable of killing them- it just takes either time or plentiful numbers of MGs to deliver that kind of damage, which is why you see the later MG arrays (focused, multiple MGs that fire on a single hit location) or other later options like the small pulse laser/micro pulse laser as heat becomes less of a drawback for swatting many small targets at once.

They are likely the least efficient anti-Mech weapon, but they are most certainly capable of killing a 'Mech (and you get examples of it as early as Decision at Thunder Rift in fluff terms), trading the comparative effectiveness of an SRM or laser for the ability to wipe other units off the field with superior ability and an utter disdain for jacking up your heat scale.

Edited by wanderer, 06 January 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[Burktross]

wanderer, on 06 January 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

MG's won't generally show up as a "primary anti-Mech" weapon because they weren't. in the 3025 era, they were secondary weapons that also had the useful ability to mow down dozens of infantry without wasting precious cooling capacity on much less efficient methods.

PPCs wreck a 'Mech. They kill 1-2 infantry per shot (and only 2 if they catch the infantry out in the open!). An MG may only do 2 damage to a 'Mech- but it kills a dozen or so infantry and you don't have to discharge your heat-hungry main gun to do it- and they'll contribute in close combat to killing a 'Mech as well.

Infantry tends to come in packs of 21-28 per. Needless to say, a 'Mech without MG's or a flamer is slowly whittling down infantry units....while it's generally chewing on the 'Mech with alacrity like a pack of fire ants. MG's aren't the most efficient 'Mech killer in terms of damage, but they're certainly quite capable of killing them- it just takes either time or plentiful numbers of MGs to deliver that kind of damage, which is why you see the later MG arrays (focused, multiple MGs that fire on a single hit location) or other later options like the small pulse laser/micro pulse laser as heat becomes less of a drawback for swatting many small targets at once.

They are likely the least efficient anti-Mech weapon, but they are most certainly capable of killing a 'Mech (and you get examples of it as early as Decision at Thunder Rift in fluff terms), trading the comparative effectiveness of an SRM or laser for the ability to wipe other units off the field with superior ability and an utter disdain for jacking up your heat scale.

The problem is... MGs are even worse in this game than vs mechs on TT!

[CDLord HHGD]

Davegt27, on 24 December 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

what is really needed is a weapon in between the MG and the AC2/Cac2 and UAC2

one or two ton weight double the pwr of the MG

Not timeline appropriate. No thanks.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Techorse, on 24 December 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Here's my proposal based on this thread:

- Return the Machine Gun to 1 DPS
- Buff the Flamer to 1 DPS, effectively make it an energy machine gun
- Reduce AC/2 heat to .6 per round, and return the firing rate to .52
- Reduce the ghost heat threshold from AC/2's by 1 cannon
- Increase damage done by LB-X autocannons to internal structure to 1.25 per pellet. (Not as relevant to the thread, but I hear the IS LB-X 10 is rather pitiful outside of the Centurion that can spam the weapon)

Every single one of these is a damn good idea, except the bolded and underlined. If you return the fire rate to 0.52 but only reduce ghost heat threshold by 1, you'll still easily get ghost heat on 4xAC2 mechs with ballistic cooldown quirks, as you'll fire your second salvo in less than .5 seconds and the game will count that as 8 AC2s. If you want to reduce the cooldown to that level, you have to eliminate ghost heat fro AC2s entirely.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 06 January 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[BourbonFaucet]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 January 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

Every single one of these is a damn good idea, except the bolded and underlined. If you return the fire rate to 0.52 but only reduce ghost heat threshold by 1, you'll still easily get ghost heat on 4xAC2 mechs with ballistic cooldown quirks, as you'll fire your second salvo in less than .5 seconds and the game will count that as 8 AC2s. If you want to reduce the cooldown to that level, you have to eliminate ghost heat fro AC2s entirely.

Thanks, I wasn't quite sure how AC/2 ghost heat worked, since I heard it was bizarre. I'll edit my post.

[Brody319]

Best way to overcome the greatest weakness of the machine guns is to carry 12 of them. Piranha!

[wanderer]

Quote

The problem is... MGs are even worse in this game than vs mechs on TT!

As an incidental note, if you made MG DPS match what it does in TT, it'd be 0.8/second.

MWO MG's have a DPS of... 0.8.


(Regarding alternative low-tonnage ballistics)

Quote

Not timeline appropriate. No thanks.

Rifles are not only timeline appropriate, they're Periphery retrotech that got put in later in the TT's game stuff in part to give some interesting options. I'd be heartily amused to see them and rocket launchers get a chance to shine.

[Greenjulius]

I think anyone who uses and understands MGs should be able to figure out that MGs are woefully under powered. They require you to face tank from under 150m to do any meaningful damage, have poor hitreg, and do very low damage.

I run the Arrow with 6xMGs, and I find it laughable that anyone would think MGs are anywhere near acceptable. They either need a dramatic increase in range, or a dramatic increase in damage. SPLs and even SLs are 100% more useful per ton. Even flamers are more useful for the blinding effect.

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[CocoaJin]

Brody319, on 06 January 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Best way to overcome the greatest weakness of the machine guns is to carry 12 of them. Piranha!

And that's how it should be.

[CocoaJin]

wanderer, on 06 January 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

As an incidental note, if you made MG DPS match what it does in TT, it'd be 0.8/second.

MWO MG's have a DPS of... 0.8.

Hmmm...

[Burktross]

wanderer, on 06 January 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

As an incidental note, if you made MG DPS match what it does in TT, it'd be 0.8/second.

MWO MG's have a DPS of... 0.8.

Except it is spread so much as to be borderline useless.
Couple this with a lack of what might as well be less than half of the crit opportunities, MGs are **** tier unless boated, in which case their only crap tier! XD

Edited by Burktross, 06 January 2015 - 06:10 PM.

[kosmos1214]

wanderer, on 06 January 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

As an incidental note, if you made MG DPS match what it does in TT, it'd be 0.8/second.

MWO MG's have a DPS of... 0.8.


(Regarding alternative low-tonnage ballistics)


Rifles are not only timeline appropriate, they're Periphery retrotech that got put in later in the TT's game stuff in part to give some interesting options. I'd be heartily amused to see them and rocket launchers get a chance to shine.

yes but we do know that the fireing phase takes less then the full 10 second turn beleave it or not

[MauttyKoray]

The Boz, on 24 December 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

You do realize that is over THREE TIMES the DPS it has now, right?

and whats wrong with that? The MGs have the smallest ballistic range in the game. I see no issue with an increased DPS on them.

[Mcgral18]

MauttyKoray, on 08 January 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

and whats wrong with that? The MGs have the smallest ballistic range in the game. I see no issue with an increased DPS on them.

With a CoF. Never forget that very important factor, it cuts most damage across multiple components until you reach sub 50M.

[Y E O N N E]

CoF doesn't hurt damage on a single component too much until you are out past 100 meters, though. At 100 meters, the vast majority of the damage still falls where you are aiming, but it drops off quickly from there.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

[Mcgral18]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 08 January 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

I'd settle for this:


Or this, complete with Jesus Box




Note: These are photoshops/copy pasted MGs, not actually in the game files.....unfortunately. They are the Nova-U.

[Brody319]

Mcgral18, on 08 January 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

I'd settle for this:


Or this, complete with Jesus Box




Note: These are photoshops/copy pasted MGs, not actually in the game files.....unfortunately. They are the Nova-U.

It doesn't have 12 machine guns! only 8