1123 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Oh no, the blunderkeg, which was worthless between july 2013, to december 2014, is now almost useful.

Please nerf.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

MarineTech, on 02 January 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

This is as far as I got in reading this threadnaught! 26 Pages to my post!

---

I have some thoughts on the matter, but my main for now is give us 30 Heat Cap for all mechs. And then go from there!

[Golden Vulf]

Zibmo, on 02 January 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

You lost me right there. Can't do what you say it does. Hyperbole does not help your cause.

As for Baby Steps, agree completely.

Okay, it can do it "nearly" non stop.

Obfuscating and omission are the same as a lie!


He's a question for all of you, Summoner is 5 tons heavier and has superior Clan Weaponry and jump jets. It also has the cheat mode clan XL engine. Now, for ANY configuration of the Summoner,

Is it better in CW than the Thunderbolt 9s with 3 er PPCs and a std engine?

Edited by Golden Vulf, 02 January 2015 - 10:32 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Serpieri, on 02 January 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

Custom Builds need to be limited - simply because of us the players. We will do what ever we can when giving the freedom to do so. Stock mecks like the nova and the warhawk shoul dhave the capacity to fire their ppcs/las without shutting down - they have the heatsinks for them but in this game - they are penalized because of the freedom we have in completely rebuilding a mech from ground up to out surpass the stock mechs.The Clans have a lot less freedom in this area.

They are more penalized cuz PGI gave us 1.4 instead of 2.0 DHS....WHK heat with just its stock 1.4s is 28. that goes up to 40 if we got true 2.0 DHS. A little over 25% increase to heat dissipation? This before we even think of adding in the 7 more DHS to get like 27 that I know I run on mine.. Pretty hefty increase in heat dissipation. Give the Nova and WHK a 25% heat dissipation quirk, and they are both golden.

But as it stands now, with 27DHS, we dont even have the same heat dissipation as 20 2.0s using this odd ass 1.4 mechanic...37.8 with 27 1.4s.....vs what should be 54 with 27 2.0s

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 02 January 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Golden Vulf, on 02 January 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

Okay, it can do it "nearly" non stop.

Obfuscating and omission are the same as a lie!


He's a question for all of you, Summoner is 5 tons heavier and has superior Clan Weaponry and jump jets. It also has the cheat mode clan XL engine. Now, for ANY configuration of the Summoner,

Is it better in CW than the Thunderbolt 9s with 3 er PPCs and a std engine?

Blunderbolt has way more tonnage to play with than the suckoner.

[Allen Ward]

Ripnfly, on 02 January 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Thunderbolts with ERPPCS only.

There is little to no varience in builds now. Its all ERPPCs on thunderbolts.

I would like to see a change to thunderbolts.This "Meta" is not enjoyable especially in PUG matches.


You have said you didnt want players boating long range weapons especially PPCs yet this is what players are currently doing. AGAIN

Double heat quircks are far to powerful.


In CW the problem is even worse with most cordinated groups only droping thunderboltz.

I also see more Awsome Q's daily with 4 ppc builds.

Yes, and please do away with those 4 ERPPC Warhawks. You know what made me change my PUG Thunderbolt 9S into a 3 ERPPC build? the current CW situation where you have to storm a gate being defended by a Clan team that sends a lightning storm over the gate along with a never ending stream of LRMs. You can not make step before being ripped through by a multitude of C-ER PPCs or C-ER Large Lasers, if you jump for cover you still get hit by LRMs following you. The maps on CW, especially Boreal, make people change their playstyle and builds. Russ wanted us to have more brawling but it is obvious that he took the wring road here. All we see is: artillery strikes followed by a storm of PPC fire and LRMs. If a mech get's through it immediately get's pulverized by 3-4 Storm Crows with SRMs that hide and shoot anyone in the back that tries to push through.

Now that is a variable and innovative gameplay...yes, I do not make it better by mounting 3 ERPPCs like anyone else, but hey, I want to be able to hit something after all, why should I bring Med Lasers? Why Large Lasers, even ER LL are lame with 4.5 damage at the required ranges (horrible face time). Try to play as IS counter attacker on Boreal against a Clan team. Just pop-tart the gate once. You will see 4-6 PPC bolts flying at you immediately.

Edit: And actually I found the 3 ERPPC Bolt weak in Pulic games. Many maps are way too hot even for the 9S to use 3 ERPPCs. You see much more close quarter brawls here, than in CW. The 3 ERPPC Bolt actually sucks in public PUG games. It is purely a CW meta build.

Edited by Allen Ward, 02 January 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

your lack of faction tag indicates either you are between contracts, or not playing CW. I don't want to assume one or the other, so feel free to correct any misinterpretations. But the impact of the mech in Public Queue where there can be no more than 3, overall, and CW is vastly different.

Moving from the smash fest the jadeFalcons have been to the Ghostbears

[Allen Ward]

Golden Vulf, on 02 January 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

Okay, it can do it "nearly" non stop.

Obfuscating and omission are the same as a lie!


He's a question for all of you, Summoner is 5 tons heavier and has superior Clan Weaponry and jump jets. It also has the cheat mode clan XL engine. Now, for ANY configuration of the Summoner,

Is it better in CW than the Thunderbolt 9s with 3 er PPCs and a std engine?

Summoner is non-existant in CW. That says it all.

[pwnface]

As I've stated multiple times, various IS mechs have quirks that drastically improve the range of erll. Look at the damn quirks list and stop complaining.

[Allen Ward]

pwnface, on 02 January 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

There are several chassis that have ERLL quirks as well as several dual gauss platforms that work great.

ER LL take too long to deliver damage and make it easier to show your actual current position. And they spread damage especially at long ranges. PPC is all or nothing. Most players now can hit your center at 1000m if you are not running with aiming time under a second. Even Lights armed with ER PPCs can move over a ridge, use the short moment of shifting into reverse for aiming, CT you and move out of sight before you can bring your weapons on them...

Edit: I use ERLL a lot and many meta builds, too. ER LL are very good weapons.

Edited by Allen Ward, 02 January 2015 - 11:01 PM.

[pwnface]

Tdr with erppc still has pretty slow projectile velocity. Erll is instant and much more effective at long range imo. IS ERLL beam duration is not that long dude..

[Deathlike]

I'll leave this thread tonight with this..

I don't remember the last time an "at best" mediocre mech got buffed so much that it induced random fearmongering complaints and yet we have counter threads about Clans being OP.

It's almost as if people were playing a very different game...

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 02 January 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

I'll leave this thread tonight with this..

I don't remember the last time an "at best" mediocre mech got buffed so much that it induced random fearmongering complaints and yet we have counter threads about Clans being OP.

It's almost as if people were playing a very different game...

Honestly I'm not sure it's even the Thunderbolt or just PPCs of some form actually being used.

These forums hate PPCs, and generally aren't quiet about them unless they are completely unused weapons.

[Gyrok]

Kdogg788, on 02 January 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

I have seen many a Cataphract, Stalker, King Crab, Thunderbolt, Timberwolf, and Dire Wolf boating weapons of various types. It's been an issue since the first iteration of this game as you know as a founder. The only solution they've had thusfar is ghost heat. Seems the issue you have is with boating in general. You can't stop one mech from boating and then allow all the others to do it. Boating in one form or another has been in this game since the 80's.

-k

Not against top teams...

You see 3x 9S tbolts and 1 BJ with AC20.

The occasional KGC and DRG are mixed in with the occasional wolverine or 4-6 LL Stalkers.

However, in the top end, the variance is virtually none.

9S needs dialed back. I would be ok if they just took the heat reduction off...leave the rest the same...

[Serpieri]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 January 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

They are more penalized cuz PGI gave us 1.4 instead of 2.0 DHS....WHK heat with just its stock 1.4s is 28. that goes up to 40 if we got true 2.0 DHS. A little over 25% increase to heat dissipation? This before we even think of adding in the 7 more DHS to get like 27 that I know I run on mine.. Pretty hefty increase in heat dissipation. Give the Nova and WHK a 25% heat dissipation quirk, and they are both golden.

But as it stands now, with 27DHS, we dont even have the same heat dissipation as 20 2.0s using this odd ass 1.4 mechanic...37.8 with 27 1.4s.....vs what should be 54 with 27 2.0s

And on top of that - ghost heat - so the question is why is PGI limiting heat dissipation quirks - and trying to make mechs like the Thunderbolt superior to the stock mechs that were designed to use 2-4ppcs? I'm sure PGI will give the Warhawk missile quriks - cause we all fondly remember it as a missile platform in all the books, tabletop games etc...

Oh Well, time for some more Band-Aid's PGI.

Edited by Serpieri, 02 January 2015 - 11:48 PM.

[Gyrok]

Deathlike, on 02 January 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

I'll leave this thread tonight with this..

I don't remember the last time an "at best" mediocre mech got buffed so much that it induced random fearmongering complaints and yet we have counter threads about Clans being OP.

It's almost as if people were playing a very different game...

Because only people with their head in the sand still think clans are OP.

The reality is a 9S t-bolt will smoke a TW at any range.

The TW cannot even bother to field ERPPCs to hit back because CERPPCs are complete garbage.

[Wolfwood592]

Nerf it!!!???!!!

Nerf it into the ground!!!!!!

400M Range MAX

[Gyrok]

pwnface, on 02 January 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

Tdr with erppc still has pretty slow projectile velocity. Erll is instant and much more effective at long range imo. IS ERLL beam duration is not that long dude..

Not with speed buffs...

Under 600m you get hit...no dodging, at about 800m you get hit...mostly.

At about 1000m you start to have enough reaction time to actually dodge a shot if you are rocking while firing and they mistime it.

[Allen Ward]

Gyrok, on 02 January 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Because only people with their head in the sand still think clans are OP.

The reality is a 9S t-bolt will smoke a TW at any range.

The TW cannot even bother to field ERPPCs to hit back because CERPPCs are complete garbage.

No, your TW will field 4 ERLLs and LRMs to hit back perfectly well. And CERPPCs are far from being complete garbage. Just because a single weapon is not the Hammer of God doesn't mean you cant use it effectively.

The Bolt-Boat is a short lived special variant, that is only viable on a single map (ok, it helps on Alpine, too). If CW ever get's more maps and modes, this variant will become one of many others that work well on some maps and suck on others. I think we all can agree that the Boreal Vault map itself is the problem, not the builds and playstyles that people create to get at least some fun out of this map.

[Gyrok]

Wolfwood592, on 02 January 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Nerf it!!!???!!!

Nerf it into the ground!!!!!!

400M Range MAX

No...I could care less about PPCs, I used to use them a LOT! I like the weapon system, but they should not be able to be fired continually...HEAT reduction quirks need to go...leave the rest of it on there...

Allen Ward, on 02 January 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

No, your TW will field 4 ERLLs and LRMs to hit back perfectly well. And CERPPCs are far from being complete garbage. Just because a single weapon is not the Hammer of God doesn't mean you cant use it effectively.

The Bolt-Boat is a short lived special variant, that is only viable on a single map (ok, it helps on Alpine, too). If CW ever get's more maps and modes, this variant will become one of many others that work well on some maps and suck on others. I think we all can agree that the Boreal Vault map itself is the problem, not the builds and playstyles that people create to get at least some fun out of this map.

LRMs < cover.

Sorry...

Let me break this down since you do not grasp it.

ERPPC 9S peaks, fires, back to cover.

CERLL mech fires 2 then 2 and requires 2 seconds to hit full burn for 44 damage.

So you take 30 damage PINPOINT, while the enemy mech takes 1/3 of the damage from 2 CERLL.

That means you are trading at a rate of 30 to 4.

In case you are terribad at math, 30 is MUCH higher than 4.