1123 replies to this topic

[Rebas Kradd]

Kensaisama, on 02 January 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Hard point restrictions has been brought up time and again all the way back to closed beta. As you can see they are hard at work implementing it

Hard point restrictions would take away a lot of already-created builds, undo a lot of hard work, and remove half the sandbox fun of this game. They'd be far more frustrating than Ghost Heat and wouldn't lead to any more variety than we already have.

[RG Notch]

Kensaisama, on 02 January 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Hard point restrictions has been brought up time and again all the way back to closed beta. As you can see they are hard at work implementing it

It's ******* hilarious to me that these hardpoint size people are still pushing for this. Not going to happen, quirks officially put the nail in the coffin of that terrible idea. Just remove the mechlab is really what these folks want. Fortunately they won't get it. Nor are you likely to get stock mode, as much as I would like to see it so we wouldn't need to hear from this segment. There isn't enough population to split with CW, group and solo. Dream on about seeing another split. Plus, despite what you see on the forums, there simply isn't enough people who want it. Plus those who are really into it have a way to do it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kaeb Odellas, on 02 January 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

My only issue with the TDR-9S is that it completely invalidates the PPC Awesomes. Why bring an 8Q or 9M when a Thunderbolt can do it better?

That said, I'd much rather see more Awesome buffs than a TDR nerf.

agree with the top half.

That said, people say "nerf" like it's a bad thing, because of Paul's insane yoyo nerf history. Thing is, if the majority of the options are pretty good where they are at, and a few are vastly superior, you don't buff the rest of the options up, you flatten the curve by bringing the outliers down the a similar level as the average.

Everyone hears "nerf" and thinks about what happened to the poor Victor and Highlander. Doesn't have to be that way. Buff or nerf, it should be about small increments in all but the mos textremem cases.

Giving the AWS Thud level quirks to the PPCs doesn't fix the underlying issue, it actually reinforces it.

Drop the THUDs cooling down a bit, like Aresye said, 35 instead of 50, and it's still dang good, in fact you might still need to reduce one of the other quirks a bit. But it isn't fully stupid anymore like it is now.

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

This is like two minutes into the game, Torso blown off, making me useless. The 9S is far from OP. Specially in a competitive scene where the entire team will just focus fire off it's torsos. It's still just a thunderbolt, scary in pugs maybe.

and again Isp, huge difference between Public Queue, and CW.

[AlmightyAeng]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

and again Isp, huge difference between Public Queue, and CW.

A large part of that being due to delayed CQB in CW. In a public match you can ID a 9S, get close and pimp-hand it.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 02 January 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Mergatroid Skittle]

Sarlic, on 02 January 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Lot of pilots in this community have no clue of sportmanship. I find this whole customizjng is getting out of hand. Sure it's fun to customize, but i think there should be small requirements.

Example of bad sportmanship builds: FS with SMPL, Streakcrows, Dual Gauss Crabs, the PPC debacle, Timberwolfs with heavy meta, AC20 or Gauss Cicada and many more.

We all have experienced these builds before. Pilots with these builds dont rolewarfare, they do it for the damage.

I say we need to implent small hardcoded hardpoints in order to weer out this kind of builds.
For example a Direwolf cannot be played without atleast one LRM rack. And a FS with atleast one medium laser point as per excisting lore.

I rather see stock matches then fully customized vomiting laser boats. Meaning: i f-king want clear rolewarfare pilots. Not a e-peen pilot.

This is a joke right? You want to limit customization? <cough> MWO {Godwin's Law} <cough>

[Navid A1]

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

This is like two minutes into the game, Torso blown off, making me useless. The 9S is far from OP. Specially in a competitive scene where the entire team will just focus fire off it's torsos. It's still just a thunderbolt, scary in pugs maybe.

Spoiler

I didn't know timber side torsos could not be taken out... maybe i am mistaken but i'm sure i saw timbers loosing a torso.... from a million miles away.

btw.. your arms are healthy... you are doing it wrong.

Edited by Navid A1, 02 January 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[Jetfire]

Honestly it is a decent build, but mostly just a FOTM. It is effective and might need some tuning but it is basically a dual gauss Jager with less articulation but no ammo needs, but more heat. It is a solid build, but not a miracle. It feels unique and interesting to drive. The Mplas one puts out higher sustained damage though.

[Kensaisama]

RG Notch, on 02 January 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

It's ******* hilarious to me that these hardpoint size people are still pushing for this. Not going to happen, quirks officially put the nail in the coffin of that terrible idea. Just remove the mechlab is really what these folks want. Fortunately they won't get it. Nor are you likely to get stock mode, as much as I would like to see it so we wouldn't need to hear from this segment. There isn't enough population to split with CW, group and solo. Dream on about seeing another split. Plus, despite what you see on the forums, there simply isn't enough people who want it. Plus those who are really into it have a way to do it.

Well just to be clear, I am in favor of hardpoint restrictions in some form. However I just don't go around spouting it all the time, I usually keep my own counsel and just poke fun at others or attempt to steer conversations into more realisitic and common sense solutions.

Yes I know common sense is uncommonly rare, it's so rare it should be a superpower.

Edited by Kensaisama, 02 January 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

A large part of that being due to delayed CQB in CW. In a public match you can ID a 9S, get close and pimp-hand it.

because he hasn't brought 8 of his closest 9S friend to spamfire you to oblivion if you try.

[Murphy7]

Kaeb Odellas, on 02 January 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

My only issue with the TDR-9S is that it completely invalidates the PPC Awesomes. Why bring an 8Q or 9M when a Thunderbolt can do it better?

That said, I'd much rather see more Awesome buffs than a TDR nerf.

I would feel much better if the TDR-9S quirks were toned down, and the Awesome's PPC and ER PPC quirks were pumped up a bit. I expect the Awesome to be a fearsome PPC / ER PPC boat, and between the tonnage cost and hitboxes of the Awesomes the clanners were still complaining in CW they should be laughed back into exile.

[Kuritaclan]

To bring the thunder into a line - it could be worked out that way. First weaponsecific tonnage reduce. Thunderbolt 9s for instance have a PPC tonnage quirk, what will make them 5 to 6 tons instead of 7. Second quirk is a splat quirk. So with the combination of higher velocity and range it should add splash damage to the ppc. If you then bring down the heat quirk into a normal area lets say 25% and add in those other two quirks the TDR wouldn't be that crazy like it is right now, and it has a bit space for other weapons, didn't make it usless when sidetorso gets blown up.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 02 January 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The reason that we're having Thunderbolt problems is NOT that they have massive ERPPC quirks, but rather because PGI assigns quirks to the entire Mech instead of their compartments.

By giving Thunderbolts the quirks in every component, instead of just their right arm, they created a situation where people are removing the Flamers from their Right Torso and replacing them with ERPPCs.

This critical flaw in the Quirk System is why we are having problems with "overly-quirked" Mechs. It's not the massive ERPPC quirks' fault; it's the fact that components without ERPPCs are getting ERPPC quirks.


*discuss

[Yokaiko]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

because he hasn't brought 8 of his closest 9S friend to spamfire you to oblivion if you try.

That is different from any other mech?

[Alienized]

it would be fine if the TDR could boat 2 er ppc just fine + additional med lasers or srms or whatever.
that would be a loadout someone would fit into the battletech world.

[Kensaisama]

Prosperity Park, on 02 January 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

The reason that we're having Thunderbolt problems is NOT that they have massive ERPPC quirks, but rather because PGI assigns quirks to the entire Mech instead of their compartments.

By giving Thunderbolts the quirks in every component, instead of just their right arm, they created a situation where people are removing the Flamers from their Right Torso and replacing them with ERPPCs.

This critical flaw in the Quirk System is why we are having problems with "overly-quirked" Mechs. It's not the massive ERPPC quirks' fault; it's the fact that components without ERPPCs are getting ERPPC quirks.


*discuss

Interesting...... quirks per location instead of overall. There is some merit here.

[Navid A1]

Prosperity Park, on 02 January 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

The reason that we're having Thunderbolt problems is NOT that they have massive ERPPC quirks, but rather because PGI assigns quirks to the entire Mech instead of their compartments.

By giving Thunderbolts the quirks in every component, instead of just their right arm, they created a situation where people are removing the Flamers from their Right Torso and replacing them with ERPPCs.

This critical flaw in the Quirk System is why we are having problems with "overly-quirked" Mechs. It's not the massive ERPPC quirks' fault; it's the fact that components without ERPPCs are getting ERPPC quirks.


*discuss

This can actually work.!

[AlmightyAeng]

Kuritaclan, on 02 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

To bring the thunder into a line - it could be worked out that way. First weaponsecific tonnage reduce. Thunderbolt 9s for instance have a PPC tonnage quirk, what will make them 5 to 6 tons instead of 7. Second quirk is a splat quirk. So with the combination of higher velocity and range it should add splash damage to the ppc. If you then bring down the heat quirk into a normal area lets say 25% and add in those other two quirks the TDR wouldn't be that crazy like it is right now, and it has a bit space for other weapons, didn't make it usless when sidetorso gets blown up.

That's so unnecessarily complicated...are you sure you aren't a Paul alt?

[Mirumoto Izanami]

+1 for reducing 9s heat quirk from 25/25 to 20/20.

I run mine with 2x ERPPCs and 3xSPL, double AMS, and STD 300. I'd still manage just fine with that drop, and it would induce people to lower the PPC count from 3 to 2.

That said, /Removing/ the TBOLT from the ER PPC picture won't change the PPC spam in CW. Its a tactic that works, to an extent, and teams will find other ways of delivering it.

[Degalus]

Degalus, on 02 January 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

... all the crying ... IS cry Timbers and Crows Op and Clan cry IS Quirkmechs are OP... srly both have &quot;advantages&quot; but also both have downsides.
The new Mechboating from 8-12 Group drops are the Problem.
Im a little more on the Clan side because quirked mechs gets more advantage if they boat Mechs.

Stats talk for themself:
Clan ErPPC 15 Heat vs IS Thunderbolt Quirk ErPPCs 7,5 Heat
Rangebuff makes them equal to Clan = 810
Then they get also a 15% Velocity buff and 25% Cooldown buff
IS Quirks dont Balance a Weapon against Clans, they make it better then Clanstuff.
I tryed the Thundebolt in non CW Matches with my Unit... DAMN this thing makes FUN! You can nearly vomit ErPPCs.

A Thunderbolt alone with this quirks? No Problem at all. I can brawl it with the Clan Heavys. But more of them ... ouchtime

Some Matches ago we droped against a team that used 8 Thunderbolts (4xErppcs) 2 Wubverines (3-4 LPL) and 2 DDC Atlas in the first Wave.
We had around 6 Timbers and 4 Crows 1 Hellbringer 1 Warhawk
.... they just camped the Gates (As CounterAttacker...) and killed everything that got near the Gates (No Clanmech can realy deal with 8+ ERPPC Hits in 3 Sec.) even a push of 10 Clanmechs got stomped in some seconds. The push was a bad idea because they used the downtime and pushed hard and nearly killed omega.
We got back in position... and guess what ... thunderbolts again ...
We could hold them back with ... no fighting at all... just wait until they come in. Then they just rushed in dealed some dmg and died ... &quot;wtf was that?&quot;
But then ... 10 Firestarter Rush ... Game Over...

L2P? not realy. They just had an extrem amount of Er PPCs with same Range but 50% less heat and better Velocity and Cooldown and its only possible with the Quirks and no Class Restriction.
(and plz dont say counter it with your clanlaservomiting .... that just doesnt work)

So all in all, even 3 Thunderbolts with ERPPCs are not Gamebreaking, but 8 or more of them.
And no, not only the Thunderboltboating also Wubverines are incredible in mass. (50% more range = nearly equal to Clan + 25% less heat = Clan 10 vs 5,25 + 25% less cooldown on LPLs)

*ps.: Thunderbolts can alpha 4 Erppcs on Forrest Colony

We dont need more Nerfs, we need Class Restriction while we Drop in CW... and no i dont know how with the current 4 Mech dropsystem.

Just my 2 Cent

Come on guys. I want some Feedback for my wall of text. ^^

[AlmightyAeng]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 02 January 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

+1 for reducing 9s heat quirk from 25/25 to 20/20.

I run mine with 2x ERPPCs and 3xSPL, double AMS, and STD 300. I'd still manage just fine with that drop, and it would induce people to lower the PPC count from 3 to 2.

That said, /Removing/ the TBOLT from the ER PPC picture won't change the PPC spam in CW. Its a tactic that works, to an extent, and teams will find other ways of delivering it.

Yup...though then at a reduced rate/increased heat ratio.