Jump to content

Thunderbolts Creating Bad Gameplay


1123 replies to this topic

#361 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:28 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

for one thing it overlooks things like RoF and Projectile Speed, two other factors of import.


I didn't ignore those at all, which is the post Ghost Badger was referring to.


View PostUltimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

The 9S
  • has better pinpoint
  • has slightly better velocity
  • has higher RoF for more DPS
The HBR
  • has better cooling
  • is significantly faster (+18kph, or roughly 25% faster)
  • is much more maneuverable with better agility, torso twist speeds, etc
  • has ECM
  • has a full shield side
  • has a higher heat cap for more alphas before shutting down






View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

nice try at a dig, though.



Did I refer to you?

Or did you just see yourself in that profile?

#362 Davers

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,886 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationCanada

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:31 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:


Jedi player...both are OP outliers, address them one way or another, and return balance to the Force.



Unfortunately PGI brings balance to the game like Anakin Skywalker.



#363 Navid A1

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2022 Gold Champ
  • CS 2022 Gold Champ
  • 4,954 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:31 PM

Couldn't find one for a tdr-9s... but i doubt the reaction for 9S was any different by IS players.


#364 HARDKOR

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 1,309 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:32 PM

If you are getting hit a lot by er ppc's you need to move more.

#365 LordBraxton

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,585 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:32 PM

View PostNavid A1, on 02 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Couldn't find one for a tdr-9s... but i doubt the reaction for 9S was any different by IS players.



turns out I never even see that variant

I see all 9ss and 9s

#366 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:33 PM

View PostKeira RAVEN McKenna, on 02 January 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

I dont get it... the Tbolt ERPPC isnt uber powerful... if at long range and you are in a sniper dule with them, stand side on and keep moving forward and back (side to side from their point of aim) and they usually miss...

your lack of faction tag indicates either you are between contracts, or not playing CW. I don't want to assume one or the other, so feel free to correct any misinterpretations. But the impact of the mech in Public Queue where there can be no more than 3, overall, and CW is vastly different.

View PostDavers, on 02 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:


Unfortunately PGI brings balance to the game like Anakin Skywalker.



Thats because we have Emperor Bullock and Darth Inouye. (And JarJar Eckman)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 January 2015 - 02:33 PM.


#367 Shevy

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 49 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:33 PM

in the firs wave of quirks still NO ONE used the thud and it had 25% erppc quirks they wernt enough to make it viable vs dual gauss and other options

how about just raising the ghost heat on more than 2 erppc enough that the 3-4 erppc thunderbolt cant fire more than once without overheating not that they should be alpha striking anyway

Edited by Shevy, 02 January 2015 - 02:34 PM.


#368 Pjwned

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 4,731 posts
  • LocationDancing on the grave of Energy Draw LOL

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:37 PM

This wouldn't be such a problem if the quirks were given to mechs that are not capable of heavily boating such weapons, and/or if sized hardpoints were implemented in a way that makes sense.

The -50% heat generation quirks for energy weapons is completely out of line either way though, it clearly needs to be toned down a lot.

#369 Brody319

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ominous
  • The Ominous
  • 6,273 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:42 PM

View PostLordBraxton, on 02 January 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:


my bad

*giving one faction a serious advantage*

Game breaking is too strong of a phrase, as it implies victory is impossible for IS, which isnt true at all.

Clan XLs are the factor that makes Clans so much more powerful than IS however.

I'd sell my soul for a Clan XL in my Banshee


Light Fusion Engines.

Get back to me when I can change my engine at all.

#370 cSand

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,589 posts
  • LocationCanada, eh

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:43 PM

See TDR.... shoot off of the right torso

problem solved!

Edited by cSand, 02 January 2015 - 02:43 PM.


#371 KuroNyra

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 2,990 posts
  • LocationIdiot's Crater.

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:54 PM

View PostLordBraxton, on 02 January 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:


my bad

*giving one faction a serious advantage*

Game breaking is too strong of a phrase, as it implies victory is impossible for IS, which isnt true at all.

Clan XLs are the factor that makes Clans so much more powerful than IS however.

I'd sell my soul for a Clan XL in my Banshee

And we'd seel our sould for IS weapons on our Clans Mech. And the ability to change engine size and the type of armure.
When speaking about advantage of a side. Don't forget the advantage of the other side.

#372 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 02:59 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

lol. Ah, yeah St Ultimatum, always the high road for you. My bad.


You can see what you want to see man, I'm not the one in threads tossing out "ggclose" every time I think I've made a good point.


I've laid out my breakdown on the HBR vs. 9S, I've outlined their advantages and drawbacks to each other.



You decided to ignore all of that and respond to an off-hand comment about "posters" that doesn't even have your name in it.

#373 J0anna

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Merciless
  • The Merciless
  • 939 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:10 PM

View PostLordBraxton, on 02 January 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:


my bad

*giving one faction a serious advantage*

Game breaking is too strong of a phrase, as it implies victory is impossible for IS, which isnt true at all.

Clan XLs are the factor that makes Clans so much more powerful than IS however.

I'd sell my soul for a Clan XL in my Banshee


Perhaps you would be so kind as to list the Gargoyle build that is "so much more powerful" than this Victor...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5e04b9f52dd3a47

Or maybe the Adder build that is "so much more powerful" than this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c019feec683fdf

Ok, what about the Summoner build that is "so much more powerful" than:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e28582f5f9fdda4

Oh, I know, I'm only picking top of the line freebirth mechs. OK how about a Ice Ferret build that is "so much more powerful" than:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0570faa161b4c70

That's hardly a top tier mech....

After all, those are all freebirth xl builds, so the equivalent true descendants of the Star League must be "so much more powerful" as YOU said.....Sadly, I haven't found the equivalent builds to compete with those, so I must be missing something.....

Edited by Moenrg, 02 January 2015 - 03:11 PM.


#374 LordBraxton

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,585 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:13 PM

View PostKuroNyra, on 02 January 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

And we'd seel our sould for IS weapons on our Clans Mech. And the ability to change engine size and the type of armure.
When speaking about advantage of a side. Don't forget the advantage of the other side.


When it comes to customization, both sides have limitations. omnipods vs engine options etc.

The Clan XL, even if it isn't the size you want for YOUR ideal build, is still far superior to any engine option the IS have.

The speed+ surviveability is insane.

Edited by LordBraxton, 02 January 2015 - 03:13 PM.


#375 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:13 PM

View PostcSand, on 02 January 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

See TDR.... shoot off of the right torso

problem solved!

what a great idea! Why didn't I think of that.......
Posted Image
so, how about you FIND the Thunderbolt hiding in this picture.....and I did you a solid, I made it TWICE the size it actually would be at this range.































So, where's Waldo? Give up?
Posted Image
follow the red dorito.

And yeah, he's still double the size he would be....but when all you have to expose is this
Posted Image
and do a "Kilroy was here"....a fair part of the time even if you could spot him to shoot him, you end up hitting the invisible wall effect with return fire.

#376 Davers

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,886 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationCanada

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:15 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

what a great idea! Why didn't I think of that.......
Posted Image
so, how about you FIND the Thunderbolt hiding in this picture.....and I did you a solid, I made it TWICE the size it actually would be at this range.































So, where's Waldo? Give up?
Posted Image
follow the red dorito.

And yeah, he's still double the size he would be....but when all you have to expose is this
Posted Image
and do a "Kilroy was here"....a fair part of the time even if you could spot him to shoot him, you end up hitting the invisible wall effect with return fire.

Nerf positioning?

#377 MechaBattler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 5,122 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:15 PM

Stormcrow dominating the Clan medium slots creating bad gameplay!

The Timberwolf's ability to fill almost every role better then other Clan mechs creates bad gameplay!

With that said. I do think they went a little overboard on the heat reduction. They should reduce the heat generation by 10% and cooldown by 5%. Give that total 15% reduction to ballistics, since that's still an option on the 9S.

It would also balance quirks if Ghost Heat is not affected by them.

#378 Brody319

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ominous
  • The Ominous
  • 6,273 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:16 PM

View PostLordBraxton, on 02 January 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:


When it comes to customization, both sides have limitations. omnipods vs engine options etc.

The Clan XL, even if it isn't the size you want for YOUR ideal build, is still far superior to any engine option the IS have.

The speed+ surviveability is insane.


wait...IS has customization limitations?!
I mean they can change the engine not just the size but the type, the armor type, the internal skeleton type, the weapons (I refer you to the Adder's locked Flamer), their equipment (no locked JJs or BAPs), and heat sinks, but yea I guess you are right, it must be crushing to not be able to change your hard points.

Edited by Brody319, 02 January 2015 - 03:17 PM.


#379 Kuritaclan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,838 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:17 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:


9S (65T)

Fires 3x ER PPCs

Ghost heat total = 63.9
- 50% = 31.95 heat

Result = 31.95 heat for 30 damage
Cost = 21 Tons of weapons (& 8 tons of extra heatsinks)

9S has 18 DHS and dissipates at 3.59 H/S with a heat cap of 73.4

STD 260 Engine for 71 KPH


Hellbringer (65T)

Fires 2x CERPPCs

Total Heat = 30

Result = 30 heat for 30 damage
Cost = 14 Tons of weapons (& space for 14 T of extra DHS)

Has 24 DHS (and ECM) and dissipates 4.55 H/S with a heat cap of 83.5

Clan XL 325 for 89 kph



The 9S
  • has better pinpoint
  • has slightly better velocity
  • has higher RoF for more DPS
The HBR
  • has better cooling
  • is significantly faster (+18kph, or roughly 25% faster)
  • is much more maneuverable with better agility, torso twist speeds, etc
  • has ECM
  • has a full shield side
  • has a higher heat cap for more alphas before shutting down
These two mechs & builds are roughly comparable & the HBR has more options to add things like a targeting computer or back up weapons for close range.


The 9S has a few edges over the HBR here, but the HBR has several more over the 9S.

And pretty much there is Problem - with ER PPC and this Quirk - Balanced weapons with Ghostheat in mind are more likly unbalanced without going for the ghost heat.

9S (65T)

Fire 2x ERPPC worth of 20 Damage for 30 Heat quirked down by 50% so in the end DPH is 20/15=1,333

Hellbringer (65T)

Fire 2x ERPPC worth of 30 Damage (20 Pin Point and 10 Splash!) for 30 Heat quirked down by 50% so in the end DPH is 30/30=1,0

if used propparly the 9S have much more Damage output in a couple minutes not counting a slightly better hit accuracy caused by velocity quirk. Since you have a shorter cd on the ERPPCs with the Thunderbolt, you can up the DPS in the moment of exposure - and if you have a couple of 9s friends standing near you making barrage fire you can develop your DPS in full way. And if the need is up, you can just use the 3rd PPC to finish the job with the full 30 pinpoint damage on a mechpart. This make TDR9s so appealing.

You set up a false point of view how to play out the advantage of the erppc quirk. - This high number (showcased by you to let the 9s look like a trash bag vs the hellbringer) is a product of ghostheat to equal this problem out - but it raise a problme fireing the erppcs avoiding Ghostheat. So if you are fire the 3 PPCs everytime in one salvo you do not use the the advantage the quirk gives!

Edited by Kuritaclan, 02 January 2015 - 03:34 PM.


#380 KuroNyra

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 2,990 posts
  • LocationIdiot's Crater.

Posted 02 January 2015 - 03:19 PM

View PostLordBraxton, on 02 January 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:


When it comes to customization, both sides have limitations. omnipods vs engine options etc.

The Clan XL, even if it isn't the size you want for YOUR ideal build, is still far superior to any engine option the IS have.

The speed+ surviveability is insane.

And what about the Locked component like Jumpjets and Heat sink?
The Warhawk for example got a full side torso of Heat Sink. And we can't even free some tonnage here, but no. Clans are OP. :rolleyes:





4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users