399 replies to this topic

[Basilisk222]

Vassago Rain, on 09 January 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

Bro, the blunderbolt's been this way for over a month, and it was handed out for free to everybody middle of last year.

I know, I got one. Doesn't mean I didn't totally need the C-bills at the time. I'm just saying it's smart for them to put a "meta" mech on sale so people buy it who are new or unimaginative.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 09 January 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 January 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Not sure I'd really agree with that kind of business model. Deliberate meddling with a mech to make it really good, capitalize on that by lowering the price on it for MC or C-bills, and then nerfing it into the ground when the sales drop off is a pay to win model, and a very ugly one at that.

"TIN FOIL Hats for Sale" Tin Foil hats...

[Mott]

Almond Brown, on 09 January 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

"TIN FOIL Hats for Sale" Tin Foil hats...

Are you saying that the TDR-9S WON'T be nerfed into the ground, 1 or 2 patches after this sale is complete?

[Basilisk222]

Almond Brown, on 09 January 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

"TIN FOIL Hats for Sale" Tin Foil hats...

Hey R Razor said it initially I just said that'd suck.

[beerandasmoke]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 January 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Not sure I'd really agree with that kind of business model. Deliberate meddling with a mech to make it really good, capitalize on that by lowering the price on it for MC or C-bills, and then nerfing it into the ground when the sales drop off is a pay to win model, and a very ugly one at that.

I see you have never played World of Tanks before.

[Alexander Steel]

T-Bolt 9S... get your T-Bolt 9S here.... Ice Cold Refreshing T-Bolt 9S here!

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 09 January 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

"TIN FOIL Hats for Sale" Tin Foil hats...

LOL I have a Chrome Dome. Why would I wanna use yesterday's Tech?

[Steinar Bergstol]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

LOL I have a Chrome Dome. Why would I wanna use yesterday's Tech?

Ah. The natural "chrome dome" of the male human. Baldness is a weapon in the ageing male's arsenal against younger rivals. See, we haven't got the reflexes of the younger specimens, but with the loss of hair from our scalps the glare of light off our foreheads blind the younger aggressor, allowing us to strike first and strike dirty!

[Kin3ticX]

Slight tangent here, but, I am against velocity quirks and extreme quirks. I think weapon velocity should always be completely standardized so that I can switch 'mechs without lead time changing.

I think 50% heat quirks are crazy high and velocity quirks are highly flawed. Many quirk types should have a 25% ceiling unless its something hopelessly bad like a Locust. PPC velocity quirks should be completely removed. Just buff the velocity to a speed which makes the weapon competitive with laser vomit. I'm guessing it is somewhere around 1250m/s for all PPCs and 14 heat for the IS ERPPC.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 10 January 2015 - 07:50 AM.

[jajsamurai]

Reality check time:

Nightshade24, on 07 January 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

let's compare this mech to the warhawk statistically.
non stop chain fire = 20 seconds till it over heats. (heat neutral map)
Warhawk non stop chain fire = 6 seconds till it over heats.

When I played CW in from day 1 I never saw the clans have this 'dominance' over the inner sphere and preventing them from opening the gates. half the time we had issues keeping them from destroying the gates before our first person died.

In CW now. I'm seeing 8+ thunderbolt 9S's.
I never seen 8+ timberwolfs/stormcrows in CW have you?

I fail to see the point you made. You say this if like it's revenge but for what? this never happened to the inner sphere when fighting clans, at least not to THIS degree.

1. yes, it did happen to us, even worse than what you are seeing. I was in a game, Jade falcon killed 24 of us before we even got the gates open. they killed all 48 of us for 2 losses. enemy team was a 12 man drop, and all of them had this after their name [LORD]
Was the problem that the clan mechs are just too OP? no. teamwork is OP. I've never seen slaughters as bad as what the clans did to us early on. even the worst tdr-9s slaughter fest I've seen never beat the clans that badly. I've seen an IS team running TDR-9s go 48 kills for 7 loses, but that's as close as I've seen it get. That was also LORD, after they switched to FRR. Having said that, clan mechs are statistically better. PGI has admitted that clan mechs were getting 90% win ratios against IS. quirks reversed some of that.

2. the TDR-9s cannot fire for 20 seconds constantly. It can cycle each weapon 4 times at max fire rate before over heating. (stagger the fire so you don't get ghost heat.) 4 cycles takes 10 seconds. I own one and I just tested it. 4 cycles of 3 PPC's is 120 damage.

3. clan ppc's actually do more damage than inner sphere. they do 10 damage to the primary location but they also do splash damage to one adjacent location. you can test this using a warhawk. I have. Your calculation that the 9s can out damage 3 warhawks is totally bogus. the warhawk does as much damage in a single shot with 2 ppc's that the 9S does with 3.
a WHK with 3 ppc's does 45 damage per alpha, 30 to the primary location and 15 splash damage to the next location.
Does the 9S out DPS the warhawk due to the reduced heat and cooldown? yes, by a small amount. but it is not even close to 3 to 1.

4. yes I have seen 8+ TBR or SCR's. and it is incredibly hard to stop.

several others have mentioned that IS vs IS have had to learn how to counter the TDR-9s spam since day one because [228] was using it in house kurita.
here is one way to do it with clans.

take 12 man TBR's with some jump jets and 4 SRM6's. For the rest of the weapons, one ppc, or 2 er large is fine, or just go medium lasers or something. its a brawler build with maybe some range added on as an after thought. now run up the ramp in a lemming line, and jump the gate. don't bother opening the gate, use your single ppc to lay down cover fire just before you jump. once over the gate, you are a lot faster than the TDR's and can out brawl them. you are also concentrated, and they are spread out on the map. they are too slow to get concentrated quickly. Slaughter the stupid 9s's for being too stupid to bring some brawlers to save their bacon in a brawl. once you have wiped out the 9S's, go back and open the gate.

basically the 9s 12 man drops are a one trick pony, and if you refuse to play their game their way they will lose.

does the 9s need a nerf? perhaps it does, but if so, then so do all the other top tier mechs, which include the TBR, SCR and Daishi.

Recently most teams seam to have stopped using the 9s spam. I haven't seen one for a while. you still see 9s's, but usually only a few. the reason is that the good clan teams counter it, and a 12 man 9s team has serious weaknesses.

should the 9S be nerfed? yes, because I don't think a 65 ton PPC mech should be able to out DPS an 80 or 85 ton ppc mech whether it's IS or clan. reduce the cooldown, and the heat reduction by a bit. it doesn't need to be a huge nerf. 5 or 10% would be plenty.

the main problem here is that the IS groups were innovating new tactics to counter the nasty things the clans were doing to us, but now that some comp teams switched sides you don't think you should have to do the same.

its not the mech, its the tactics and organization that are messing you up. I've fought against clan teams that easily countered massed 9S tactics. They didn't give us a chance to make use of our massed ranged firepower, and they got in close and forced us to brawl, where we lost badly.

learn to do the same, instead of crying for a nerf to one mech.

Edited by jajsamurai, 10 January 2015 - 11:27 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Spam

Steinar Bergstol, on 10 January 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Ah. The natural "chrome dome" of the male human. Baldness is a weapon in the ageing male's arsenal against younger rivals. See, we haven't got the reflexes of the younger specimens, but with the loss of hair from our scalps the glare of light off our foreheads blind the younger aggressor, allowing us to strike first and strike dirty!

Shut up. I took that reflex test posted on the forum and my almost 49 year old reflexes are right in line with the average 30 year old!

[Blacksoul1987]

Kin3ticX, on 10 January 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

Slight tangent here, but, I am against velocity quirks and extreme quirks. I think weapon velocity should always be completely standardized so that I can switch 'mechs without lead time changing.

I think 50% heat quirks are crazy high and velocity quirks are highly flawed. Many quirk types should have a 25% ceiling unless its something hopelessly bad like a Locust. PPC velocity quirks should be completely removed. Just buff the velocity to a speed which makes the weapon competitive with laser vomit. I'm guessing it is somewhere around 1250m/s for all PPCs and 14 heat for the IS ERPPC.

I cannot agree with this enough. PPC's are trash its so sad. Thunderbutts are only mech I enjoy using them on and the velocity that the thunderbutt has feels right.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Davoke, on 06 January 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Taking a contract with the Clans was a terrible idea. The total non-canonicity of it is being punished by a terror filled reign of Thunderbolts equipped with ERPPC's. Everywhere. Gone are the days of hope for CW, gone is the fun. Now, we just have these ERPPC wielding maniacs running around, spotting for missile barrages while calling in artillery support. I lovingly pet my Daishi and tell it not to cry as we come in hot for the assault drop. It'll be over soon, too soon.

I know it's a bit late to comment on the Opening Post...

... but I thought ERPPC-TDRs weren't spamming LRMs.

[Coolant]

although i think the ERPPC quirks are a little ridiculous, I feel zero sympathy for the clans. You clans agree not to use ER Large lasers (or hiding behind them), and I'll more than agree to not use ERPPC quirks...

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

LOL I have a Chrome Dome. Why would I wanna use yesterday's Tech?

Steinar Bergstol, on 10 January 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Ah. The natural "chrome dome" of the male human. Baldness is a weapon in the ageing male's arsenal against younger rivals. See, we haven't got the reflexes of the younger specimens, but with the loss of hair from our scalps the glare of light off our foreheads blind the younger aggressor, allowing us to strike first and strike dirty!

Suit yourselves. I love my curly dark brown locks.

[Zerex]

Mott, on 09 January 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Are you saying that the TDR-9S WON'T be nerfed into the ground, 1 or 2 patches after this sale is complete?

Russ already said the 9S will be toned down a little well in advance of this sale being announced, so yea its a bit easy to "predict" whats going to happen when the people in control tell you whats going to happen.
Don't act all smart and all knowing while screaming its all a marketing ploy to steal your money under the old guise of P2W, only for the them to Nerf it.

just remember that the Nerf was announced before the sale was announced, and if you bought the 9S in the sale you bought it knowing the hammer was coming down on it.

There is no conspiracy, just people that want to rage about nothing to make noise or people who who find it easier to rage not bothering to read the truth or both.

[Budor]

Zerex, on 11 January 2015 - 02:47 AM, said:

Russ already said the 9S will be toned down a little well in advance of this sale being announced, so yea its a bit easy to "predict" whats going to happen when the people in control tell you whats going to happen.

No he didnt, he said that the 5SS has been toned down in the past and thats it:

Twitter User Jan 6
Russ Bullock @russ_bullock · Jan 6
"I never said that at this point I have no planned nerfs"

Russ Bullock @russ_bullock · Jan 6
"I only said I reduced some in the past and I am not adverse to doing that again"

Edited by Budor, 11 January 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[Zerex]

I guess i was listening to the rumor mill a bit too much then.
As a great lover of the ThunderBolts even well before the quirks i can say that the 9S does need toning down a touch, no mech is that bad it needs a 50% heat reduction for a weapon, let alone when it has 6 hard points to mount that kind of weapon.

On the flip of that tho, it is the only IS Mech that can trade with Clans, so i doubt it will be a massive nerf if it ever comes

[Nightshade24]

MischiefSC, on 08 January 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

It's not broken. It is Best in Class.

Think of it like the Timber Wolf of PPC Snipers. Is it broken and OP? No. Is it very effective at what it does? Yes.

Best of it's class?

Yea... it is the best of it's weight class...
It's also the best of all the other classes.
(Ultra light mech (mathmatically, using MW: O rules) , Light mech, Medium mech, Heavy mech, Assault mech, Colossus mech, Super Heavy Mech (mathmatically, using MW: O rules) )

so... you agree that 1 Thunderbolt is equal to 3 Warhawks or 2 and a half awesomes?

Do you really think a 65 ton is better then 200 to 255 tons of mechs.

Key number, 255 tons. Even with a line up of 3 warhawks (which breaks the 240 ton limit) it is still barely better then just 1 thunderbolt...

We can't even carry enough tonnage of mechs to combat the thunderbolt in ER PPC boats...
It may be BS that the Thunderbolt 9S is better then a Catapult K2 at PPC boating at Heavies but I can let that slide.
BUT when the Thunderbolt 9S is better then any assault mech at the role+ ... that's when I call BS...

Zerex, on 11 January 2015 - 03:34 AM, said:

I guess i was listening to the rumor mill a bit too much then.
As a great lover of the ThunderBolts even well before the quirks i can say that the 9S does need toning down a touch, no mech is that bad it needs a 50% heat reduction for a weapon, let alone when it has 6 hard points to mount that kind of weapon.

On the flip of that tho, it is the only IS Mech that can trade with Clans, so i doubt it will be a massive nerf if it ever comes

IS have a strong advantage in the Assault and light area.
Locust 1V has quirks so powerful that it can out DPS a thimberwolf at range...

and if you look at the post above. I really agree it needs 'nerfing'. It makes every mech of it's role obsolete.
This is why you do not see many direwolfs or warhawks anymore. Because why take a warhawk when you can take a IS 65 ton mech that performs like 3 warhawks that run instead of walk?

[Nightshade24]

Coolant, on 10 January 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

although i think the ERPPC quirks are a little ridiculous, I feel zero sympathy for the clans. You clans agree not to use ER Large lasers (or hiding behind them), and I'll more than agree to not use ERPPC quirks...

IS ER large =

Heat: 8
Damage: 9
Range: 675
Max Range: 1,350
Reload: 3.25
Duration: 1.25

Clan ER large =

Heat: 10
Damage: 11
Range: 740
Max Range: 1,480
Reload: 3.25
Duration: 1.5

IS ER large laser quirked (certain mechs)

Heat: 8
Damage: 9
Range: 675
Max Range: 1,350
Reload: 1.625
Duration: 0.9375

... on a Locust 1V... with endo steel, FF, max armour (ish), and max heatsinks with an ER large laser.

This vomits as much ER large lasers as a direwolf can. Slightly less damage and slightly less range, but the DPS and even on warm maps it can't over heat constantly firing... This thing can vomit more lasers then a timberwolf can chain fire.


How about we unnerf the clan ER medium laser so we are not forced to run small or large lasers?

Or better yet give better quirks to the respective missile and ballistic weapons that are not being used on all mechs famous for them (Kitfox, Ice ferret, Warhawk, Timberwolf, Mad Dog, Summoner, Stormcrow (certain configs), etc.