399 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Vassago Rain, on 08 January 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

It had something like 20% ER PPC bonuses since quirks were invented, but that obviously didn't amount to much. Same with the AC5s on the wolverine, the pulse wolverine, one dragon had UAC5s (now AC5s), and so on.

Only the blunder is a problem, apparently. In the real world, most of my guys prefer to bring AC5 boating dragons, wolverines, or LBX centurions, because those are much better at piling on the damage than the 9S. 9S isn't so great when you get banzai charged.

So what ends up happening is, we have some of each, and some personal mechs. Kinda like, you know, you'd expect, but the clan babbies are still crying about the blunder.

Is it cry babies Vas? or is it that something broken is well broken?
Not debating the clan vs IS scenario, way to much BS on both side to bother about.

[MischiefSC]

It's not broken. It is Best in Class.

Think of it like the Timber Wolf of PPC Snipers. Is it broken and OP? No. Is it very effective at what it does? Yes.

[InspectorG]

Nightshade24, on 08 January 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

Warhawk = really?... really?

Can't you inner sphere make up your mind? because you make it sound like 1 of hte 3 clan assaults is OP as **** and the other 2 suck but like literally a couple pages back someone is complaining about the direwolf being the OP assault and now it's the warhawk?

Something tells me on page 17 someone will be complaining about the gargoyle being OP...


Timberwolf = it's not OP, it's just common because the summoner isn't that good either and the hellrbinger costs real money at the moment while timberwolf is out for c-bills. Look at the summoner... it's prime variant has an alpha of 35 damage while a firestarter does 32 in the 8 small pulse laser configeration... and that's for every 2 seconds for the firestarter.

The underpowered jumpjets hardwired and the lack of endo strikes the summoner bad.

To be honest you can do the exact same build as a timberwolf in a grasshopper and better... I know that mech isn't out yet but it can't have a worse hitbox then the timberwolf and has more energy hardpoints + quirks...

Stormcrow = Really? A cicada could do the same build and go like 50% faster then some of the proclaimed "Meta" builds the crow uses. I think the mediums in general are a mash pit of powerhouses. There is a reason why the medium mech circuit was popular in solaris and was the main work force in the IS durring the clan invasion.

Stormcrow makes more heat firing 3 medium lasers then the thunderbolt makes firing 1 er ppc... anyway.

And more durable XL engines doesn't mean much when you can't change it out for others or it prevents you from using weapons.

For eg not a single clan mech can mount a LBX 20 in the side torso. Or many many other limitations...

Timberwolf has an XL 375... we all know if it was a XL 300 you would really start complaining about the clans.

It's like a curse and a gift. Good things occur but bad things also happen.


I find it funny how there was not much whine about the clans up until CW...

Yes on the Summoner,

Not so much with the Cicada.

I rock the Cicada but it is WAY more fragile than the Cro.

Everyone is Crying about Thuds...

Better than Crying about LuRMs...

Now THATS improvement!

[Karl Marlow]

Life isn't fair because the enemy keeps putting weapons on their mechs. PGI pls nerf enemy mechs.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 08 January 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

It's not broken. It is Best in Class.

Think of it like the Timber Wolf of PPC Snipers. Is it broken and OP? No. Is it very effective at what it does? Yes.

Ya because by taking a weapons system and buffing it by 100% on one chassis only isnt broken right?

I cant believe anyone that will sit here and say its not broken, really from intelligent people,,,,
So in a tank game you buff one tank so it has TWO cannons instead of One, a WW2 flight game giving an aircraft 8x20mm cannon instead of 4, cutting heat by 50% literally gives you twice the firepower in a game where these weapons are run by heat, not even mentioning the speed, really you would be fine with that type of buff in any other game,, but thats it its MWO.

Ya Russ can you please send the Devs at WT a note for me?, my BF109E4 is under performing a bit vs other planes, can you pls explain to them that by increasing the ME109s guns from 2 cannons and 4 mgs to 4 cannons and 8mgs it will balance my ME, ohh and dont forget the 25% increase in projectile speed thanks,,,

Edited by N0MAD, 08 January 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 08 January 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

Ya because by taking a weapons system and buffing it by 100% on one chassis only isnt broken right?

I cant believe anyone that will sit here and say its not broken, really from intelligent people,,,,
So in a tank game you buff one tank so it has TWO cannons instead of One, a WW2 flight game giving an aircraft 8x20mm cannon instead of 4, cutting heat by 50% literally gives you twice the firepower in a game where these weapons are run by heat, not even mentioning the speed, really you would be fine with that type of buff in any other game,, but thats it its MWO.

Do we need to have a discussion on what having the Clan XL gives Clanners? A free 50% engine tonnage boost with the survivability of a STD? CERMLs that are virtually like 1 ton large lasers?

It might be a little over-quirked because of how effective it is in groups. We play against and beat 9S all the time though. All the time. Comp teams are flat out killer with them - when defending Boreal. They are the same with ERLLs or whatever though. That's not the standard to use. In regular play IS vs IS matches they get beaten all the time. They are common, so are Spiders and Firestarters. In fact if someone has a light in CW it's probably a Firestarter or a Spider.

ERPPCs are largely useless outside of a narrow situation. The Thudder actually makes them a viable primary weapon; like the Blackjack with regular PPCs. In CW though, in a well organized group with focused fire, it's the old PPC meta in a lot of ways.

They did the same thing with CERLLs when they were playing Clans though. It probably could stand a small roll back on heat, more importantly projectile speed. It's a long way from OP though. Just solid for what it does, like the TW or Scrow.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 08 January 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

Do we need to have a discussion on what having the Clan XL gives Clanners? A free 50% engine tonnage boost with the survivability of a STD? CERMLs that are virtually like 1 ton large lasers?

It might be a little over-quirked because of how effective it is in groups. We play against and beat 9S all the time though. All the time. Comp teams are flat out killer with them - when defending Boreal. They are the same with ERLLs or whatever though. That's not the standard to use. In regular play IS vs IS matches they get beaten all the time. They are common, so are Spiders and Firestarters. In fact if someone has a light in CW it's probably a Firestarter or a Spider.

ERPPCs are largely useless outside of a narrow situation. The Thudder actually makes them a viable primary weapon; like the Blackjack with regular PPCs. In CW though, in a well organized group with focused fire, it's the old PPC meta in a lot of ways.

They did the same thing with CERLLs when they were playing Clans though. It probably could stand a small roll back on heat, more importantly projectile speed. It's a long way from OP though. Just solid for what it does, like the TW or Scrow.

Not going to agree or dispute your examples, but in reality all youre doing is excusing something being broken because other things may be broken?, so instead of possibly fixing other things lets just break others and thats ok..
Anyway i leave my examples of that type of buff in other games, said what i think, leave it to you leet guys to fix it, or not.

Edited by N0MAD, 09 January 2015 - 12:53 AM.

[Tarmok II]

ahhh i just love it when the clanms cry

will not say that the 9S is OP or not

BUT I JUST LOVE IT

they steam roll us for 1month in CW and now that the majority of IS players found a way to counter them they cry XD ******* hilarious

Edited by Tarmok II, 09 January 2015 - 01:14 AM.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 09 January 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

Not going to agree or dispute your examples, but in reality all youre doing is excusing something being broken because other things may be broken?, so instead of possibly fixing other things lets just break others and thats ok..
Anyway i leave my examples of that type of buff in other games, said what i think, leave it to you leet guys to fix it, or not.

Here's my concern. I'm willing to say the TDR - 9S may be broken. I don't see it but that could be because I play with/against it all the time. I do have a deep hate for the PPC so in absolute truth I'd love for it to get nerfed into the ground -

The problem of course is that the clans long range meta and XL engines mean that it's hard to tell if it's just 'on par with Clan mechs' or it's legit OP.

It's even more complex when you try to balance it to how high comp teams use it. Similar issue with lights. Lights are in a good place - save in CW, when you run them in waves, at which point they are OP.

How do you fix that? Same issue. A single TDR 9S isn't a big deal. 8 or 10 wfocusing fire? A legit issue.

[Duvanor]

MischiefSC, on 09 January 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

Here's my concern. I'm willing to say the TDR - 9S may be broken. I don't see it but that could be because I play with/against it all the time. I do have a deep hate for the PPC so in absolute truth I'd love for it to get nerfed into the ground -

The problem of course is that the clans long range meta and XL engines mean that it's hard to tell if it's just 'on par with Clan mechs' or it's legit OP.

It's even more complex when you try to balance it to how high comp teams use it. Similar issue with lights. Lights are in a good place - save in CW, when you run them in waves, at which point they are OP.

How do you fix that? Same issue. A single TDR 9S isn't a big deal. 8 or 10 wfocusing fire? A legit issue.

I agree with you 100% here. There are several factors for the Clans losing ground so fast at the moment. That includes a shift in player numbers and talent, the factor that being in the defense leads to more mixed PUGs then attacking and the Boreal map being very advantageous for the Thunderbolts.

But my problem wth the Thunderbolt in particular is that it basically undos every nerf to PPCs made in the past. Plus there is no other Mech that has similar capabilities and can be fieldet that often in a drop deck. My Hellbringer with a dreaded Clan XL, 2 ER PPCs and 3 Clan ER Med Lasers overheats much faster then a 3 ER PPC Thunderbolt. It does not matter if I ER PPC snipe or brawl. I either get ripped apart or I shut down before the IS mech does. And as already mentioned here, that Mech outperforms ER PPC platforms like the 85 ton Warhawk prime. I do not want to take the IS players toys. But the Mech is too good.

Concerning Clan and IS lasers - I paid a bit more attention to the lasers when I was leveling my King Crab and I was surprised how the IS large lasers burn time feels compared to a Clan Med Laser. They are not equal, but the IS Large Laser has its merits in range and burn time.

[Ben Delat]

Quote

I find it funny how there was not much whine about the clans up until CW..

and where, dear Sir, have u been the last six Months?

[MischiefSC]

Duvanor, on 09 January 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

I agree with you 100% here. There are several factors for the Clans losing ground so fast at the moment. That includes a shift in player numbers and talent, the factor that being in the defense leads to more mixed PUGs then attacking and the Boreal map being very advantageous for the Thunderbolts.

But my problem wth the Thunderbolt in particular is that it basically undos every nerf to PPCs made in the past. Plus there is no other Mech that has similar capabilities and can be fieldet that often in a drop deck. My Hellbringer with a dreaded Clan XL, 2 ER PPCs and 3 Clan ER Med Lasers overheats much faster then a 3 ER PPC Thunderbolt. It does not matter if I ER PPC snipe or brawl. I either get ripped apart or I shut down before the IS mech does. And as already mentioned here, that Mech outperforms ER PPC platforms like the 85 ton Warhawk prime. I do not want to take the IS players toys. But the Mech is too good.

Concerning Clan and IS lasers - I paid a bit more attention to the lasers when I was leveling my King Crab and I was surprised how the IS large lasers burn time feels compared to a Clan Med Laser. They are not equal, but the IS Large Laser has its merits in range and burn time.

Play it in pug queue.

It's alright - it's no Timber Wolf though.

The issue with the TDR 9S isn't the coolness of the ERPPCs either.

It's the speed buff. That's what people are missing.

Higher rate of fire and cooler running is alright; being able to accurately tag targets at 800m? That is exactly what creates the synergy with focused fire among several on the same team at long range and makes the 9S dangerous in packs of coordinated comp teams.

If it's not a focused fire comp team stacked with 9S they're not that big a deal. The issue there is, well, a comp team with a gift for focusing fire is going to just switch to ERLLs and every time you go up the ramp it's going to be like flipping the bird to the Deathstar. You'll be at the focal point right here -



That's what they did when they were driving Clans. You'd come up and get waxed. In one match while doing a lemming run to clear the gens my Banshee lost both arms and literally every bit of all 3 torsos armor plus all the weapons on my left torso in the time it took to run up, shoot as I ran and drop down. It's about like what the 9S wall is like but often more precise.

If the 9S needs a nerf it's projectile speed. Knock 10% off that and suddenly it's not the premier comp team mech. It's still useful, it's still got a lot of value for everyone, it's not going to be ideal for concentrating fire though. Same reason the PPC meta went away. It wasn't the heat - it was never the heat. It was pinpoint accuracy at long range.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 09 January 2015 - 04:22 PM.
Removing bad link to image

[Rushin Roulette]

Mystere, on 07 January 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

I will stop caring if PGI gives me nova bombs. I really don't need to take all of those planets because they will require occupation troops. I only need a few as stepping stones to Tera anyway.

Here you go, the MWO Novabomb. Once the Alpha trigger is depressed, the bomb will go off, completely destroying at least one mech.

[Basilisk222]

Blueduck, on 08 January 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

You know I saw this sale and the first thing I thought was the devs were trolling the clans. xD

It sounds kinda shady, but if everyone now wants one mech, i mean, if you make it cheaper it would seem to me that more people would buy it for MC other than C-bills.

I think it's certainly capitalization on the trend to use it in cw.

[R Razor]

I would think the clanners complaining about the 9S being "OP" (in their opinion) would be celebrating this sale..........since odds are good PGI will make as much off of it as they can and then nerf it, buff another mech, put it on sale, and repeat the process..........

[Basilisk222]

R Razor, on 09 January 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

I would think the clanners complaining about the 9S being "OP" (in their opinion) would be celebrating this sale..........since odds are good PGI will make as much off of it as they can and then nerf it, buff another mech, put it on sale, and repeat the process..........

Not sure I'd really agree with that kind of business model. Deliberate meddling with a mech to make it really good, capitalize on that by lowering the price on it for MC or C-bills, and then nerfing it into the ground when the sales drop off is a pay to win model, and a very ugly one at that.

[Mott]

Yup, after this sale, expect the TDR's quirks to be hammered down by at least 30%.

[Vassago Rain]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 January 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

It sounds kinda shady, but if everyone now wants one mech, i mean, if you make it cheaper it would seem to me that more people would buy it for MC other than C-bills.

I think it's certainly capitalization on the trend to use it in cw.

Bro, the blunderbolt's been this way for over a month, and it was handed out for free to everybody middle of last year.

[R Razor]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 January 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Not sure I'd really agree with that kind of business model. Deliberate meddling with a mech to make it really good, capitalize on that by lowering the price on it for MC or C-bills, and then nerfing it into the ground when the sales drop off is a pay to win model, and a very ugly one at that.

The precedent is there for all to see though.............agree with it or not (and I don't by the way) it is my bet that that's what you'll see happen.

[Necromonger Commander]

Another thread in need of a WAAAMBULANCE....