399 replies to this topic

[Crockdaddy]

Alexander Steel, on 11 January 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

I don't think it's possible to have a game that's PvP based and not have constant Nerf Hearding.

1. People don't like to lose and tend to blame everything but themselves for losses.

2. People like to win, and ignore everything but their "skill" when it comes to those wins.

This!

Does this mean there are not balance issues? Of course there are balance issues. Just the issues are not always so great as perceived.

We run a mix of mechs ... Dragon 1N and various TDRs are our current preference for heavy fighting. We also run quite a few lights and at times assaults. For us the battle isn't just a specific mech as much as it is a concept. Mech choice and build choice are determined by our concept of role warfare for what we do.

Be it ERLL Snipe, Light Zerg, ECM, Guass, Brawl etc.

Personally I find ERLL much more effective in CW than ERPPCs. For ERPPCs to work well you need players whom can hit consistently with them.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mystere, on 07 January 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

The speed boost is a crutch to those who can't aim at a moving target.

The 50% heat reduction is a blessing to someone who can.

You realize with base ER PPC speeds at ~1000m+ you can see PPCs are coming and move out of the way right? It actually takes aim out of it and relies on predicting what your target is going to do by the time you shot gets there. Is he going to stop moving? Turn left? Slow down? Etc.. So really, you just have to be lucky to score hits at that range.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 January 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

CrockdaddyAoD, on 22 January 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Personally I find ERLL much more effective in CW than ERPPCs.

Shhh don't tell them that, now they will want to nerf that too!

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

You realize with base ER PPC speeds at ~1000m+ you can see PPCs are coming and move out of the way right? It actually takes aim out of it and relies on predicting what your target is going to do by the time you shot gets there. Is he going to stop moving? Turn left? Slow down? Etc.. So really, you just have to be lucky to score hits at that range.

I don't know about you, but I have been practicing since the time the PPC projectile was as slow as molasses. And one thing I have learned is that targets can't dodge what they do not see coming.


<And this thread is still alive?>

Edited by Mystere, 22 January 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mystere, on 22 January 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

I don't know about you, but I have been practicing since the time the PPC projectile was as slow as molasses. And one thing I have learned is that targets can't dodge what they do not see coming.


<And this thread is still alive?>

That is true for bigs, but faster moving mechs making a random course correction = ninja dodge.

[Davers]

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I see a 9S maybe every 2-3 pug games. I see Timberwolves, Stormcrows, and Dire Wolves every single game. I think the only 'problem' with them is that the comp teams, who are very good shots, use them. Your average middle of the road Elo pilots are not walking over anyone just because they pilots a 9S.

[Kain Demos]

Davers, on 22 January 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I see a 9S maybe every 2-3 pug games. I see Timberwolves, Stormcrows, and Dire Wolves every single game. I think the only 'problem' with them is that the comp teams, who are very good shots, use them. Your average middle of the road Elo pilots are not walking over anyone just because they pilots a 9S.

I pity the fool that brings a Dire Wolf to an attack in CW.

[Davers]

Kain Thul, on 22 January 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

I pity the fool that brings a Dire Wolf to an attack in CW.

A Dire Wolf? Yes. But 12 Dire Wolves might be fun.

[Mystere]

Kain Thul, on 22 January 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

I pity the fool that brings a Dire Wolf to an attack in CW.

Considering that a planetary defense drop might turn out to be a counterattack, and there is no real way of telling ...

[Gas Guzzler]

Davers, on 22 January 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

A Dire Wolf? Yes. But 12 Dire Wolves might be fun.

12 Dire Wolves, with JJs, you mean.

All fear the 12 DWF rush, don't even stop to destroy the generators, they will never know whats coming.

[Davers]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

12 Dire Wolves, with JJs, you mean.

When I read that I immediately thought of Calvin and Hobbes' Tyrannosaurus Rex flying F-14s.

[Mordin Ashe]

Another day, another batch of Thunderbolts...
I would love to see a match of 12 jumping whales against 12 ERPPC Thunderbolts. Soooo much meta, so much cheese...

[Joseph Mallan]

Mordin Ashe, on 23 January 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

Another day, another batch of Thunderbolts...
I would love to see a match of 12 jumping whales against 12 ERPPC Thunderbolts. Soooo much meta, so much cheese...

I saw a few Thunderbolts Yesterday while grinding my Commandos. While in a 3-6 man team I saw ONE Tbolt, that caught my eye. The Pilot was a obvious marksman, and fired off 6-8 Alphas in a row. I was loving it as I was nervous to ever have to face a similar pilot. BUT that was exactly how 3 PPCs are meant to be on teh field. IF you have the sinks to handle the heat. Could have used a small CoF though.

BTW the community can breath easy now. I am done grinding basics and can now focus on my ECM Commando. I know you were all worried.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 January 2015 - 03:36 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

The 9S is really not that cheesy. A good TBR pilot with quad ERLLs shouldn't have much of an issue being hard to hit and taking down the TDR at range. Same for, you know, a 3-4 ER LL DWF with 2 gauss rifles.

[Zeh]

I couldn't slog through all 20 pages, but I went through a good bit and didn't find a link to http://metamechs.com/mwo-tier-lists/ anywhere in here, so I thought I'd pop that in.

Metamechs is currently the resource for metagame information generally used by the most informed players.

Here's a bit of a summary of the tier lists:

To summarize: excluding scouts in competitive, because that's not a big indicator of fighting ability, just shows IS lights can move quickly for spotting movements

• 
  11/12 competitive tier 1 mechs are clan. (21/22 if you get variant-specific)
  
• 3/4 group queue tier 1 mechs are clan. (5/7 variant specific) Again, only IS lights that move quickly are in the running.
  
• ALL solo queue tier 1 mechs are clan.

Gotta love when I see people complaining about IS quirked mechs being OP when one of the only highly respected resources for this kind of thing blatantly shows a large imbalance in place still in favor of clans. Not only in competitive play, but at every level for every mech that's not a light.

Edited by Zeh, 23 January 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

Zeh, on 23 January 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

I couldn't slog through all 20 pages, but I went through a good bit and didn't find a link to http://metamechs.com/mwo-tier-lists/ anywhere in here, so I thought I'd pop that in.

Metamechs is currently the resource for metagame information generally used by the most informed players.

Here's a bit of a summary of the tier lists:

To summarize: excluding scouts in competitive, because that's not a big indicator of fighting ability, just shows IS lights can move quickly for spotting movements

• 
  
  
  
  
  
  11/12 competitive tier 1 mechs are clan. (21/22 if you get variant-specific)
  
• 3/4 group queue tier 1 mechs are clan. (5/7 variant specific) Again, only IS lights that move quickly are in the running.
  
• ALL solo queue tier 1 mechs are clan.

Gotta love when I see people complaining about IS quirked mechs being OP when one of the only highly respected resources for this kind of thing blatantly shows a large imbalance in place still in favor of clans. Not only in competitive play, but at every level for every mech that's not a light.

I agree, however my conern here are excessively high quirks that distort the game. In this case, a 50% heat quirk + cooldown + velocity not only blows away comperable IS options but also anything the Clans have for ERPPCs. The velocity quirk is the extra component to the balance problem. 1208 m/s is much better than 1050 for accuracy. The 18 DHS that can fit in the TDR effectively operate like ~40DHS if you include the lab upgrades. Not only that, this thing can withstand ghost heat for two alphas, a 3rd with a coolshot.

This is simply the case where one quirked mech is way way overbaked and pgi needs to go back in and more evenly distribute quirk adjustments in a fair way.

Also, the 9S fairs very well as a 4xERLL boat. The thing also gets -25% heat on ERLL. Even at the half quirk, it is still very powerful.

Bottom line, PGI has to be careful with quirks beyond 30% on heat, range, and cooldown.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 23 January 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[AdamBaines]

Davoke, on 06 January 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Taking a contract with the Clans was a terrible idea. The total non-canonicity of it is being punished by a terror filled reign of Thunderbolts equipped with ERPPC's. Everywhere. Gone are the days of hope for CW, gone is the fun. Now, we just have these ERPPC wielding maniacs running around, spotting for missile barrages while calling in artillery support. I lovingly pet my Daishi and tell it not to cry as we come in hot for the assault drop. It'll be over soon, too soon.

I am trying sooooooooo hard to not be a douche bag in my reply...........because I know I will if I do

So I guess I wont, other then this useless waste of a post.

[Gorgo7]

Kin3ticX, on 23 January 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

I agree, however my conern here are excessively high quirks that distort the game. In this case, a 50% heat quirk + cooldown + velocity not only blows away comperable IS options but also anything the Clans have for ERPPCs. The velocity quirk is the extra component to the balance problem. 1208 m/s is much better than 1050 for accuracy. The 18 DHS that can fit in the TDR effectively operate like ~40DHS if you include the lab upgrades. Not only that, this thing can withstand ghost heat for two alphas, a 3rd with a coolshot.

This is simply the case where one quirked mech is way way overbaked and pgi needs to go back in and more evenly distribute quirk adjustments in a fair way.

Also, the 9S fairs very well as a 4xERLL boat. The thing also gets -25% heat on ERLL. Even at the half quirk, it is still very powerful.

Bottom line, PGI has to be careful with quirks beyond 30% on heat, range, and cooldown.

I agree!
Quirks should be increased to at least 50% across the board for all IS mechs.
Thank you for pointing this out to those silly clanners.

[nehebkau]

When I hear clanners cry about how OP something is.... I laugh so hard that my mouth-full of milk shoots out of my nose and ruins yet another keyboarrrrrrrrkx

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

Personally, I don't mind that the TBolt has its spotlight. But I hate uniformity in mechwarrior. I want all chassis's to have a niche that they can fulfill.