399 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Yes, and once the nerfs are done, it'll be back to 3 Stormcrows and 1 Timberwolf camping on defense... but that's okay and requires "skill."

Heaven forbid those IS scrubs have anything comparable to the Clan mechs in CW... right...

Vassago Rain, on 06 January 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

They spent upwards of 360 dollars on clan robots, and now the IS has the brass balls to field a grand total of one mech that can match their range.

Exactly. Money spent = skillz, or so we're to believe. And the Thud was given away for free, which makes it even more unacceptable that it should be competitive, apparently.

[Petard]

I have 82 mechs, 39 of em are Clan, the rest IS, I have favourites among both, and among both I have mechs that just plain suck. I play both kinds in both pug and group queue, and both kinds have their own strengths and weaknesses. It's a certainty that not all clan mechs are OP, just like not all IS mechs.

Ironically enough, it's kind of amusing that you never see any "ac40 Jagermech OP" threads anymore, because those people are now busy complaining about clan mechs. Most of these people don't actually own any clan mechs and are unable to make any kind of reasoned or objective arguments about them because of this. What you tend to hear is "Pay 2 Win Clanners OP, Nerf Nao". Never mind that these people who DO own them are also paying to keep this game that we all apparently enjoy playing solvent.

To suggest that Clan pilots haven't had to take cover from enemies 800+m away till now, is pure unadulterated bovine fecal matter, due to the fact that Clan pilots have been facing other Clan pilots in both pug and group queue since the release of Clan wave 1. Not to mention things like dual Gauss Jagers etc.

The only issue I have with the TDR 9S, and yes, I own one, and have tested the build, is the 50 percent less heat. I'm fine with the range and velocity buffs, no problems there, its the ridiculous amount of time they can spam them for before overheating that is the problem.

And sure, there are Clan mechs that are overperforming as well, no argument, but most of the really dangerous loadouts have significant heat issues associated with their range advantage, which is not something that the ERPPCBolt has to worry too much about.

Something else that none of you seem to be considering, is what happens once we proceed a little further down the timeline,(assuming MWO lasts that long), and the IS start to get their own ER weapons, Clanbuster mechs start to show up, etc. Seems to me that Omnimechs are going to be at a serious disadvantage compared to IS mechs with full customization, AND access to weapons that perform similarly to Clan weapons. Clans are gonna need some SERIOUS quirks to be able to keep up.

Edited by Petard, 07 January 2015 - 04:46 AM.

[Mcgral18]

It's funny how the IS has some of the best mechs in the game, yet the IS doesn't want to admit it.


I guess 15% of our mechs are viable, so we've got that going for us.


36 Tbolts is worse than 36 Crows, being able to fire literally twice as often with a similar loadout.



But, sorry, CLAMs OP, blanket nerf EVERYTHING, even the Bad robots. Especially the Bad robots.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davoke, on 06 January 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Taking a contract with the Clans was a terrible idea. The total non-canonicity of it is being punished by a terror filled reign of Thunderbolts equipped with ERPPC's. Everywhere. Gone are the days of hope for CW, gone is the fun. Now, we just have these ERPPC wielding maniacs running around, spotting for missile barrages while calling in artillery support. I lovingly pet my Daishi and tell it not to cry as we come in hot for the assault drop. It'll be over soon, too soon.

So you understand the hate of the Clan Timber Wolf now do ya Davoke?

Don't get me wrong, the Timber Wolf is meant to be a beast but the Inner Sphere was able to meet them with Marauders and Warhammers in the fiction, Those dual PPC and dual ERPPC Mechs are not here. The Thunderbolt is.

But hearing a Clan player complain cause an Inner Sphere mech is hard to defeat is kinda sad. I thought Ghost Bears were made of sterner stuff than that...

Vassago Rain, on 06 January 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

Yes, as an IS assault and medium driver, inner sphere heavies are truly my passion.

I feel for you, guys. I really do. Can't be easy finally meeting some resistance after 9 months of supremacy. Maybe you should do some of that adapting and overcoming you recommended when your clan robots had a 90% win ratio?

I could not have said it better Vass.

[Vassago Rain]

Mcgral18, on 07 January 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

It's funny how the IS has some of the best mechs in the game, yet the IS doesn't want to admit it.


I guess 15% of our mechs are viable, so we've got that going for us.


36 Tbolts is worse than 36 Crows, being able to fire literally twice as often with a similar loadout.



But, sorry, CLAMs OP, blanket nerf EVERYTHING, even the Bad robots. Especially the Bad robots.

>the fools! How dare they nerf the eldar!? 17 of our 21 units are almost as bad as everything else, while the remaining four are by far the best units available to any army in the game! I don't understand how these WORMS can sleep at night. The glorious eldar master race DESERVES to be the best! We're the best players, we have the best army, and we spent the most on our toys!

By the way, 15% viable robots? 3 out of 13!? That's good, though. We have 5 robots out of *31* that could be considered good.

Edit: I forgot to mock your math. 23% of your robots aren't only viable, but clearly the best mechs available in the game, while the 5 IS gundams represent a pathetic 16% of our total selection. These 5 are also nowhere near best in class. They exist in a very fragile state of balance. At any time, Russ can simply decide to move the quirks around, reduce them, or what have you.

The holy trinity isn't bound by quirks, at all. We're also not counting the 'not holy trinity but still god tier'-mechs, like the loki, or the pretty useful kitfox. We're operating based around the assumption that the vulture doesn't exist, and that there is no warhawk.

So you see, you're super wrong. You've never been this wrong in your entire life.

Here, have some extra salt to wash down the tears, while you tend to your hurt butt.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 07 January 2015 - 04:55 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 07 January 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

It's funny how the IS has some of the best mechs in the game, yet the IS doesn't want to admit it.


I guess 15% of our mechs are viable, so we've got that going for us.


36 Tbolts is worse than 36 Crows, being able to fire literally twice as often with a similar loadout.



But, sorry, CLAMs OP, blanket nerf EVERYTHING, even the Bad robots. Especially the Bad robots.

And 36 Tbolts don't stand up to 36 Timber Wolves now do they? They shouldn't mind you(360 ton advantage) but they should be a challenge to that much Omni.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 January 2015 - 05:08 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

And 36 Tbolts don't stand up to 36 Timber Wolves now do they? They shouldn't mind you(3600 ton advantage) but they should be a challenge to that much Omni.

So a 65 tons battlemech should be almost if not equal to a 75 tons Clan OmniMech?

I would rather have Marauders and Warhammers..

Btw, i think we are all forgetting that the IS has its advantage at close range. Why do you feel all this need to outsnipe the Clans when range is their main advantage over IS weapons, except weight? We dream of pinpoint AC20s for example..

I am usually not one to complain so much about OP 'Mechs but the quirks are a bit exaggerated. A small tweak could really help.

And, @vassago: yes, the quirks were also introduced to ensure more variety in the battlefield making more viable underused 'Mechs, aka bringing them to line with the best IS 'Mechs not with Clan 'Mechs. The same will go for the OmniMechs, the less used ones will get a few quirks as well.

Back to Thunderbolt vs TBR: We cannot bring more than 2 "OP" Timber Wolves, while you can bring 4 "OP" Thunderbolts. Any 12men is literally a PPC wall..

[beerandasmoke]

This is a highly entertaining read. When they first perked the 9S there was a little grumbling about it being a little excessive but things went on with clans steadily pushing towards Terra. Then several comp teams switch sides, clans mysteriously start losing, and its "OMG PGI WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!TOO STRONK!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!" Because you cant nerf the Lords,228, and other comp teams being on the IS side your going after the mech they are using on a single CW map. Lol heres a clue. Your still going to lose even if they nerf the thunderbolt as long as those guys stay on the IS side. Its not the mech beating you but coordinated teams of highly skilled players.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 07 January 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

So a 65 tons battlemech should be almost if not equal to a 75 tons Clan OmniMech?

I would rather have Marauders and Warhammers..

Btw, i think we are all forgetting that the IS has its advantage at close range. Why do you feel all this need to outsnipe the Clans when range is their main advantage over IS weapons, except weight? We dream of pinpoint AC20s for example..

I am usually not one to complain so much about OP 'Mechs but the quirks are a bit exaggerated. A small tweak could really help.

And, @vassago: yes, the quirks were also introduced to ensure more variety in the battlefield making more viable underused 'Mechs, aka bringing them to line with the best IS 'Mechs not with Clan 'Mechs. The same will go for the OmniMechs, the less used ones will get a few quirks as well.

Back to Thunderbolt vs TBR: We cannot bring more than 2 "OP" Timber Wolves, while you can bring 4 "OP" Thunderbolts. Any 12men is literally a PPC wall..

Eventually Yes. Don't get me wrong CyclonerM, I am fine with the Clans being more powerful than My Steiner Mechs are. BUT I will draw the line when ONE Inner Sphere Mechs can challenge Clan superiority and a panic occurs. IF I were a Clanner and I started running into thunderbolts I would treat it like every other Meta We have all faced. With a determination to beat it somehow and not have mom and dad fix it for me.

It took me some time, but I learned how to beat Timber Wolves and Dire Wolfs on a fairly regular basis, Clanners should be able to figure out how to beat One good Inner Sphere Mech?

[Banditman]

Brawling actually brings up a good (and lost) point.

How long has it been since brawling was a viable tactic in organized play? I remember a lot of pilots who really liked to brawl, but were totally turned off during the pop tart festival of '13 - '14. Sure wouldn't mind seeing some changes designed to bring the brawling back to MWO.

It's history repeating itself right now. As a Battletech game ages, inevitably the range at which combat plays out increases. That's a little sad to me as enemy mechs are reduced to little red boxes.

[Tolkien]

beerandasmoke, on 07 January 2015 - 04:58 AM, said:

This is a highly entertaining read. When they first perked the 9S there was a little grumbling about it being a little excessive but things went on with clans steadily pushing towards Terra. Then several comp teams switch sides, clans mysteriously start losing, and its "OMG PGI WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!TOO STRONK!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!NERF!!!" Because you cant nerf the Lords,228, and other comp teams being on the IS side your going after the mech they are using on a single CW map. Lol heres a clue. Your still going to lose even if they nerf the thunderbolt as long as those guys stay on the IS side. Its not the mech beating you but coordinated teams of highly skilled players.

*Ding* Give this man the gold star.

Last night my unit did some CW drops and ~6 of the guys would take thunderbolts in their first wave so they could lay down some respectable PPC bukake.

The only match we lost was on boreal vault, against a clan team. I know you're already asking 'but but how could this be!? Half our team was abusing the Thud 9s stronk meta, we couldn't lose!!11!'

Not only did we lose to them, but we got absolutely rolled, because the enemy team did a masterful job of countering the PPC spam:

1) They formed a train up the alpha side so we could only hit the lead mech at any given time while they proceeded to knock out the alpha generator in a single pass of ~40 seconds. They didn't even lose a single mech doing this.

2) They didn't waste time screwing around out in the open taking PPC spam to the face. They killed the generators then they rushed up the sides where we were forced to close to range to engage them.

3) Their mechs were packing a good number of clan ER mediums, SRMs, etc. They *DOMINATED* the 'unbeatable' thunderbolts at any range under 500 metres.

4) At the end of the match their 12 man had farmed our 12 man 48 to 25, despite our 12 man abusing this supposedly unstoppable meta.

In conclusion: The problem the clanners have is that they no longer absolutely own the long range game and can't stand still out in the open and expect to win any and all weapons fire exchanges with the inner sphere. It worked that way in tabletop, it worked that way here for the last 8+ months, but now you guys have to learn the same painful lessons us mediocre inner sphere pilots had to learn: Don't stand out in the open at 700-900 metres!

Hells bells, the clans have so many weapons that work at this range it isn't even a hard and fast rule! It really is just 'don't stand around in the open trading fire with inner sphere OR clan mechs unless you have numerical superiority.

TL:DR; I'm not trying to be mean, but if you're losing to TDR9s erppc spam, it's because you're making the mistake of believing your clan mech is so superior it can stand still out in the open at range against a numerically superior enemy and not get smacked upside the head. The TDR9s is very specialized in the role of 'punishing stupidity' - people who move slowly out in the open at long range. If you don't stand out in the open at long range, it is not a very good mech. The OP capabilities of clan equipment is finally starting to get dialed back after 8+ months of ruling the battlefield, and now you guys are going to have to unlearn a bad habit.

Edited by Tolkien, 07 January 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[Whiteagle]

Vincent V., on 06 January 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

And what is this about attacking us at range? Last I checked, you have a lot of weapons that can attack at a long range. U/AC5, AC5, AC2, Gauss Rifle, LB 10-X and even the ER Large Laser when upgraded with the modules.

THEY ******* NERFED MUH AC2S!!!

Verenix, on 06 January 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

Someone even had the audacity to say "well 8 of those mechs shooting down a choke point just wrecks".

The above scenario isn't the ERR PPC being op, that is just a poorly designed map. You can have 12 mechs running really anything

Exactly, Long range has always terribly effective in this game due to a lack of cover for big stompy robots.

Vassago Rain, on 07 January 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

Which is why you don't see IS brawlers in CW. You only ever see ER PPC boats, whether they be awesomes or blunders, and powder keg wolverines, dragons, banshees, shadowhawks... We're talking XL engines AND 12+ tons of ammo. That's what we have available, and citing brawling advantages when you get to shoot us for 400+ extra meters makes you look incredibly stupid.

Indeed...

Banditman, on 07 January 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

Brawling actually brings up a good (and lost) point.

How long has it been since brawling was a viable tactic in organized play? I remember a lot of pilots who really liked to brawl, but were totally turned off during the pop tart festival of '13 - '14. Sure wouldn't mind seeing some changes designed to bring the brawling back to MWO.

It's history repeating itself right now. As a Battletech game ages, inevitably the range at which combat plays out increases. That's a little sad to me as enemy mechs are reduced to little red boxes.

Again, it isn't the range of weapons that are the issue here, it's that a good deal of maps have long Lines of Sight between two combatants.
Notice how on Terra Therma, Forest Colony, River City, Alpine Peaks, Caustic Valley, and Crimson Strait usually always have the fighting drawn to one or two specific points?
This isn't just because they limit the flow of Mechs, but also limit or break Line of Sight between the two sides.

This is why Sulfurous Rift is so superior to Boreal Vault in every regard, you can actually make use of the interior Cover both Offensively AND Defensively, depending on your build.

[MechWarrior9376871]

Vincent V., on 06 January 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

I just bought a Thunderbolt 9S, equipped it with heatsinks and 3 ER PPC's... We clansmen do not have anything that comes even close to this. 30 fire and forget pin point Alpha Strike? We need a Gauss Rifle for that.

And do not mention the ER Large Lasers. To get 11 damage from one of those you need to keep it pointed at that location for 1.5 seconds.

These things need a tweak indeed.

You are beyond pathetic. Try out a CLPL for 13 damage no need to lead a moving target. 3 CLPL for 39 damage and low heat is a hell of alot better than 3 ERPPCS.

[Mott]

Vincent V., on 06 January 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

I just bought a Thunderbolt 9S, equipped it with heatsinks and 3 ER PPC's... We clansmen do not have anything that comes even close to this. 30 fire and forget pin point Alpha Strike? We need a Gauss Rifle for that.

And do not mention the ER Large Lasers. To get 11 damage from one of those you need to keep it pointed at that location for 1.5 seconds.

These things need a tweak indeed.

One does not equate to the other. The ONE TDR variant is impressive and fine as is. Doesn't need to be touched.

The RIDICULOUS burn time of clan lasers however, DOES need to be addressed.

[xWiredx]

So... am I the only person with TBRs and SCRs made of wet paper no matter how I distribute the armor?

Oh wait, that's probably just the 12 ERPPCs that hit me because I have to stand in one spot to hit a generator to open a gate while 4 t-bolts have a direct line of sight and know I'll be there.

I still don't see how people think the TBR and SCR are broken. The hit boxes do in fact work pretty well from what I've seen. And about them being on the same level of playing field? Not even close. Before quirks, you can get a 3 ERPPC t-bolt up to 7.something sustained dps after mastering it, where a TBR only goes up to 4.something. You might be able to squeeze out 5.something, but you'd have to sacrifice the safety of having one ERPPC in the RT. It would have to be put in those noodley arms instead.

[Basilisk222]

I dunno guys, The Thunderbolt is not really a big threat for me.

I've died to it sure, but everyone thinks that the thunderbolt will save them.

It's not a particularly hardy heavy and thanks to the cover available, you can usually break LoS and goad them out. Once they're in range, they really don't brawl well. PPC's in general run too hot, and it's so easy to strafe and dodge PPC fire if you know what you're doing.

I took out 4 thunderbolts last night with one mech (Mad dog). and 3/4 of another with an Adder. They're potent yes, but they're far too dependant on having good line of sight.

The thunderbolt in my opinion excels at what it does and in general, allows players who want to snipe, options to snipe on offense, and defense, but like I said, it niche and unless your defense team plays to the snipe game it's playing, it's overall threat is greatly diminished.

The thunderbolt supports, it doesn't lead. It'll be at the back hammering down resistance at the front. Lock them, let your LRM's take them down and use evasive, close quarters brawling to kill them. If you've got ballistics, hit them with those, Clan LBX10 and 20's can disable their kit, and disable thier mech easily.

On defense though they are a force to be reconed with, a sea of blue greets gate openers.

Jump jets, 2-3 lights, rush generators to get those gates open, even if you lose a couple of lights, the gate's open. As said, PPC's are hard to aim over great distances. Use that to your advantage

If everyone is playing with the same mech, which I saw about what 24 of them last time, their strategy is much less flexible, stay mobile, keep them toasty and pick off weapons. LRM them to death.

The thunderbolt is a threat, but as with any threat, learn it, and play to its weaknesses.

[Tolkien]

Kilgorin Strom, on 07 January 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

I dunno guys, The Thunderbolt is not really a big threat for me.

I've died to it sure, but everyone thinks that the thunderbolt will save them.

It's not a particularly hardy heavy and thanks to the cover available, you can usually break LoS and goad them out. Once they're in range, they really don't brawl well. PPC's in general run too hot, and it's so easy to strafe and dodge PPC fire if you know what you're doing.

I took out 4 thunderbolts last night with one mech (Mad dog). and 3/4 of another with an Adder. They're potent yes, but they're far too dependant on having good line of sight.

The thunderbolt in my opinion excels at what it does and in general, allows players who want to snipe, options to snipe on offense, and defense, but like I said, it niche and unless your defense team plays to the snipe game it's playing, it's overall threat is greatly diminished.

The thunderbolt supports, it doesn't lead. It'll be at the back hammering down resistance at the front. Lock them, let your LRM's take them down and use evasive, close quarters brawling to kill them. If you've got ballistics, hit them with those, Clan LBX10 and 20's can disable their kit, and disable thier mech easily.

On defense though they are a force to be reconed with, a sea of blue greets gate openers.

Jump jets, 2-3 lights, rush generators to get those gates open, even if you lose a couple of lights, the gate's open. As said, PPC's are hard to aim over great distances. Use that to your advantage

If everyone is playing with the same mech, which I saw about what 24 of them last time, their strategy is much less flexible, stay mobile, keep them toasty and pick off weapons. LRM them to death.

The thunderbolt is a threat, but as with any threat, learn it, and play to its weaknesses.

This guy gets it - the Tbolt 9s is great at punishing people who mill around in the open (when it has superior numbers/positioning), but it's a paper tiger up close and personal.

xWiredx, on 07 January 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

So... am I the only person with TBRs and SCRs made of wet paper no matter how I distribute the armor?

Oh wait, that's probably just the 12 ERPPCs that hit me because I have to stand in one spot to hit a generator to open a gate while 4 t-bolts have a direct line of sight and know I'll be there.

I still don't see how people think the TBR and SCR are broken. The hit boxes do in fact work pretty well from what I've seen. And about them being on the same level of playing field? Not even close. Before quirks, you can get a 3 ERPPC t-bolt up to 7.something sustained dps after mastering it, where a TBR only goes up to 4.something. You might be able to squeeze out 5.something, but you'd have to sacrifice the safety of having one ERPPC in the RT. It would have to be put in those noodley arms instead.

Please do yourself a favor and consider the following: On sulphrous rift you can hit both the alpha and gamma generators without LOS to the enemy - there are rock formations where you are practically invulnerable and can knock out the generators at your liesure, especially if you are packing anything with the range of a clan ER medium laser or better.

On boreal vault the key is to get your team to form up for a coordinated run up the ramp together - you DO NOT need to, nor should you STAND STILL up there. Just run off the edge and dump an alpha in to the generator on the way by. Will you take artillery? probably, but it's not going to kill you. Will you take PPC fire... probably, but not likely to be more than 1-2 hits each even against the spammiest of spammy teams.

My 12 man was using the TDR-9s hard last night and we lost to the Antares Scorpions hands down because they didn't wander around aimlessly in the open taking PPC hits for no reason. They got down to business and they absolutely dominated the thunderbolts once they were inside the gates.

Clanners have to now learn the same lesson inner sphere pilots have had hammered in to their faces over the last 8 months -if you stand still at long range trading fire against superior numbers, you will lose! For the past 8 months this hasn't applied to clanners due to the almost uniformly superior range of your weapons, but now the rules apply to you to.

Edited by Tolkien, 07 January 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Mott, on 07 January 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

One does not equate to the other. The ONE TDR variant is impressive and fine as is. Doesn't need to be touched.

The RIDICULOUS burn time of clan lasers however, DOES need to be addressed.

The 5SS is impressive.

The 9S is ridiculous. Half heat.

[Thelamon]

Hey guys,


I feel there is too much bitterness in this debate.

• Is the ERPPC Thunderbolt OP?

Yes – not only concerning IS vs Clan but especially IS vs. other IS mechs.

Long range + good firerate + no ammo restraints + no real heat concerns whatsoever + you can bring three per deck…. (Neither Gauss nor any kind of LRM will counter that)
Should the Quirkvalues for this mech be reviewed
Absolutely – Yes!

• Should Clan Mechs generally be better than IS mechs 1 for 1?:

Of course – very much so – unless you want to get rid of all the Battletech background for MWO.

Clan mechs have better tech in many ways – end of story.

Balance for CW should/could come by other means than creating individual OP IS mechs spawning loads of new balancing issues along theway..
Clan had the tech IS had the numbers after all…
My proposal for CW (instead of nerfing clans and quirking IS ad nauseam) would be to add 20 tons to the IS deck making it 260 IS tons vs. 240 Clan tons.
(Then check after testing if that was too much and 10 extra IS tons are sufficient)

For public games no such thing is needed as the teams are of mixed techs (Clan/IS) anyway.

• On initial Clan victory percentages etc. over IS –

I very much feel that this statistic is affected by the fact, that IS will always have more of the casual / less experienced players who only have a few IS mechs and are unwilling to pay much real money for a completely new fleet of Clanners.

The dedicated players who are invested in MWO – and play a lot - are much more likely to buy expensive Clanners and later join said faction. Hence there is currently a hidden “skill/experience” filter for the clan pilots, as usually you only buy mechs for hard cash if you have also bought into really playing that game.
This will only erode over time as clan mechs become more common at entry level.


Having said all this I will gladly take on the clanners in my trusty Steiner mechs.
CW currently has other issues way more problematic than balancing Clan vs. IS mechs.

( I will also drive my Timbers in public games and enjoy their beauty and punch…)

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

And 36 Tbolts don't stand up to 36 Timber Wolves now do they? They shouldn't mind you(360 ton advantage) but they should be a challenge to that much Omni.

You can bring as many as 24 TWs, if you bring a bad robot.

Vassago Rain, on 07 January 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

>the fools! How dare they nerf the eldar!? 17 of our 21 units are almost as bad as everything else, while the remaining four are by far the best units available to any army in the game! I don't understand how these WORMS can sleep at night. The glorious eldar master race DESERVES to be the best! We're the best players, we have the best army, and we spent the most on our toys!

By the way, 15% viable robots? 3 out of 13!? That's good, though. We have 5 robots out of *31* that could be considered good.

Edit: I forgot to mock your math. 23% of your robots aren't only viable, but clearly the best mechs available in the game, while the 5 IS gundams represent a pathetic 16% of our total selection. These 5 are also nowhere near best in class. They exist in a very fragile state of balance. At any time, Russ can simply decide to move the quirks around, reduce them, or what have you.

The holy trinity isn't bound by quirks, at all. We're also not counting the 'not holy trinity but still god tier'-mechs, like the loki, or the pretty useful kitfox. We're operating based around the assumption that the vulture doesn't exist, and that there is no warhawk.

So you see, you're super wrong. You've never been this wrong in your entire life.

Here, have some extra salt to wash down the tears, while you tend to your hurt butt.

How DARE someone question your easy mode.

Have you even used the 9S? I know some of the defenders have not. It's laughably easy to use. Shoot, then shoot, then shoot, then shoot, then shoot...oh, I have to wait a second before I shoot again.

Half ******* heat is goddamned ridiculous.


We have 150% heat lasers; while you get 50% heat ERPPCs?

Edited by Mcgral18, 07 January 2015 - 07:44 AM.