313 replies to this topic

[Budor]

Caustic Canid, on 09 January 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

The clans no longer have the range advantage, so they should move to brawling? Yeah, overheating while getting shot with PPD IS ac/20s sounds super fun.

Yeah because brawler TBRs and SCRs are totally the weakest and noone uses them...get a grip.

Edited by Budor, 10 January 2015 - 01:03 AM.

[Alexander Steel]

The problem isn't the Thunderbolt ((it hasn't been changed)) or the AC/20 ((it also hasn't been changed in the time CW has been out)) the problem has everything to do with populations.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Budor, on 10 January 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

Yeah because brawler TBRs and SCRs are totally the weakest and noone uses them...get a grip.

B-b-but what's a good Timberwolf build? I've only been getting 900-1100 damage average with my TBR-S with 4x ASRM6 and 4x SPLs?

[Alexander Steel]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 January 2015 - 01:05 AM, said:

B-b-but what's a good Timberwolf build? I've only been getting 900-1100 damage average with my TBR-S with 4x ASRM6 and 4x SPLs?

Trick question, there are no good Timberwolf builds. All clan mechs instantly over heat when an IS mech gets within 100 meters of them ((because the clans haven't figured out how to play without overheating yet)) and blow up the second a Thunderbolt targets them at range.

[Nightshade24]

People woundering why no one wants to play clans?

I've been going around, due to how badly people on the clan side lose to the IS, it's often a (no premium or mech bonuses) 160k c-bills per game. (210k if you include contract costs)

The thing is with 50 to 75% less time with the que and game... I could do more damage in 1 clan mech on a pug match then 4 clan mechs in CW, with less thunderbolt spam as well... and also get 200k+ c-bills.

(Also a note, clans got no hero mechs and also have no promo mech beyond packs. Which can't be bought by everyone. I can easily spend 1000 dollars on MC if I wanted but I can't get the gargoyle because of payment option limitations... IS however have promo, charity, and hero mechs by them side as well as champions with good exp boosts, mech mastery packages, etc....)

Doesn't help that the Thunderbolt is so powerful that It is not only beating clans at ER PPC boat. (mathmatically = Any ER PPC boat for clans, rather that be a 25 ton mech or a 100 ton mech).

But it is also superior to 2 Warhawks/ Direwolf ER PPC boats still. (not including the armour advantage. if it was a 2 (clan assault) verse 1 (IS heavy) fight, the clans would win, however the thunderbolt would have done 30 to 70% more damage in the same time then the direwolfs and/or warhawks put together in that 2 verse 1 fight)

Economics, Technology (quirks)/ (lack of side effects), Mechs, Player base and Game time...

Clans are at a disadvantage at all areas.


Quirks were introduces as an equalizer. Bringing Tier 5 and 4 mechs on par with tier 3 while making tier 1 and 2 on par with tier 3. Clans have no such equalizer. There are many mechs considered suicide to bring to CW for clans while for the IS you can do good in any mech if you are good in it.

Also people bring the debate that IS did get quirks to be on par with Clan. If that is true then the same very patch wouldn't have nerfed clan tech weapons to the point it's questionable to bring said weapon...

I think CW will be dead for clans until 1 of the 3 happens.


1) Clan gets flushed out quirks just like IS. (and if the thunderbolt 9S isn't OP then we can expect identical quirks on the Summoner Prime...)

2) Clan gets there technology restored. (aka heat reduction for lasers, min range LRM's work, faster fire rate streaks, etc.

Beam duration, ER PPC splash, SSRM spread, AC bursts, etc I am fine with there presence.)

3) If clans are made to be for some reason underpowered in 3050 and not following BT time line... due to the sealclubbing this matches 3052-3055. Releasing clan mechs, clan IS mechs, and IIC mechs should be released into MW: O in 3050 that are around in this time.

(it matches what happens in CW. these second line/ garrison mechs would have been spotted a week ago in CW... Couldron born, Shadowhawk, Commando IIC, King Crab, Highlander, etc. would have been seen under clan use atm.)

Besides simply releasing mechs because in lore they are only seen by clan smoke jaguar when they were nearly annihilated BUT also for option 3 it should give clans a better C-bill boost so there is at least a reason to play CW instead of getting x2 better reward in PUG matches.

[Appogee]

.

Edited by Appogee, 10 January 2015 - 01:53 AM.

[Aethon]

You know what? I am really damned tired of the complaining on both sides; let the IS use Clan mechs, and vice-versa. I would prefer to keep both sides using their proper mechs, but I just do not care anymore.

Reasons:

1. The Clans would benefit from a much wider assault mech selection, pinpoint AC/20, etc.
2. I am really tired of hearing IS players whine about Clan mechs.
3. I would love to have access to the fast IS lights, so we can have our own lag-shielded lolblitz.
4. AC/40 King Crabs and Jagers.
5. I would love to be able to pilot my Orion, Zeus, and Jagermech in CW.
6. I look forward to winning matches without people saying I only won because of a tech advantage.
7. I am not a Clanner for the tech, anyway; I am a Clanner because I think Clan Hell's Horses is awesome. I love their ideology, particularly the belief that a warrior's skill matters more than her/his equipment.

I still think some of the Thunderbolts have a silly set of quirks, though, that have nothing in common with what a Thunderbolt is supposed to be. Make it a wicked mid-range/brawler/multipurpose/laserboat mech or something. If you want to give the IS a dedicated ERPPC boat, put these perks on the CPLT-K2, or something that actually commonly carried multiple PPC weapons in canon.

After fighting Clan/IS mechs in my Vindicator all night during normal drops, my only Clan mech gripe is with the CT hitbox on the Stormcrow; I did not find the Timberwolf to be any scarier than an Orion or Cataphract, when I had their attention. The PPC-focused Thunderbolts were actually a much bigger problem for me, as their damage was very focused and front-loaded, and left me with exposed internals/missing limbs very quickly.

[Nightshade24]

Aethon, on 10 January 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

You know what? I am really damned tired of the complaining on both sides; let the IS use Clan mechs, and vice-versa. I would prefer to keep both sides using their proper mechs, but I just do not care anymore.

Reasons:

1. The Clans would benefit from a much wider assault mech selection, pinpoint AC/20, etc.
2. I am really tired of hearing IS players whine about Clan mechs.
3. I would love to have access to the fast IS lights, so we can have our own lag-shielded lolblitz.
4. AC/40 King Crabs and Jagers.
5. I would love to be able to pilot my Orion, Zeus, and Jagermech in CW.
6. I look forward to winning matches without people saying I only won because of a tech advantage.
7. I am not a Clanner for the tech, anyway; I am a Clanner because I think Clan Hell's Horses is awesome. I love their ideology, particularly the belief that a warrior's skill matters more than her/his equipment.

I still think some of the Thunderbolts have a silly set of quirks, though, that have nothing in common with what a Thunderbolt is supposed to be. Make it a wicked mid-range/brawler/multipurpose/laserboat mech or something. If you want to give the IS a dedicated ERPPC boat, put these perks on the CPLT-K2, or something that actually commonly carried multiple PPC weapons in canon.

After fighting Clan/IS mechs in my Vindicator all night during normal drops, my only Clan mech gripe is with the CT hitbox on the Stormcrow; I did not find the Timberwolf to be any scarier than an Orion or Cataphract, when I had their attention. The PPC-focused Thunderbolts were actually a much bigger problem for me, as their damage was very focused and front-loaded, and left me with exposed internals/missing limbs very quickly.

How about we only let them use certain mechs in situations?

For eg...

You get a c-bill bonus, gxp bonus, and/or loyalty point bonus if you use the factions mechs.

(ie stiener using atlas and zues,, Davions with there centurions and enforcers, liao with the ravens and stuff, kurita with the catapult k2 and banshee and stuff. Clan jade falcon with kitfoxes, hellbringer, timberwolf, etc.

This is just a very run down list, A more detailed list should be in place obvious but you should get the picture)


Repair and rearm will be in game as well!

So using a Zues as a Stiener would have lower repair cost then using a Hatamoto chi (if that's ever added.)

Also a faction should only use very forign mechs when they have the planet that produces them or have lots of 'clan territory'.

So if you got a place that makes direwolfs as a kuritan. hozzah! you got direwolfs. It'll still be expensive to operate HOWEVER it'll be available!



Same with clans... but different. There IS mechs would be cheap to repair. The Kingcrab 000B, The Commando, the Shadowhawk, etc. IS mech they have since they left the IS. (Clan Ghost Bear has nearly the same amount of functional king crabs then the entire IS... so technically Ghost bear should have a smaller repair bill then IS for a king crab 000B... the 000 and 0000 (and later on 001) may or should be cheaper though in IS)

Clans obviously get there mechs cheaper then IS and some mechs will have a hard repair bill if it's only gifted via Isorla or what ever.

If repair, rarity, and promotion doesn't help make each faction unique and doesn't make it like a public match version of invasion mode. There will also be the most likely situation that you can buy a mech cheaper if it's form the faction your in goods with.

Ie get the Direwolf 5%-10% off and less repair 2-5% off (rough numbers) if you are the clan that makes the bloody things.

I think a form of salvage system could make the economy bend very slimly...

For eg lets pretend kurita spammed Catapult K2's 12 man groups for a few days, the faction that keeps salvaging those mechs will get a smaller bonus and a cheaper repair bill if they used that mech that match.

[ice trey]

I don't think the clans have "Stopped" per say.

What I have noticed, however, is that the Bears don't appear to have a world that they are currently attacking on the Kurita side. I'm thinking that early in development, each faction might have been given a "Maximum" number of planets they can take. The Bears have been steamrolling so much that they've reached that max in the Combine, and can no longer proceed. Only the Combine can fight back, but not unlike the way clanners are talking about Tbolt 9S'es, my unit talks about clan mechs in general. They're so irritated by drops against clanners that they've seemingly outright quit playing CW. Not just them, but many other larger DC units, as the players all gravitate towards regular drops.

I'm more than a little peeved by this, because I got bored of normal dropping over a year ago. There hasn't been significant content to refresh the experience since turrets were added to the game. New maps are just food coloring added to the same old sugar-water.

That said, for all the complaints about 3ppc Thunderbolts, the constant stream of clan Timberwolves and Streak SRM Stormcrows are likewise getting redundant. The TW/SC are too OP as they are, and the TBs were considered garbage in the past, but are now too good due to quirks, but my biggest gripe is that the quirks make the cookie-cutter Opti-mechs even more cookie cutter, encouraging players to take very specific weapons systems rather than "Whatever they want". It's even more irritating to me if said weapons system doesn't come stock on a mech. An example being SRMs on Griffins - no griffin carries SRMs. The SRM 55-tonner is supposed to be the Wolverine.

Edited by ice trey, 10 January 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[Abivard]

Aethon, on 10 January 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

You know what? I am really damned tired of the complaining on both sides; let the IS use Clan mechs, and vice-versa. I would prefer to keep both sides using their proper mechs, but I just do not care anymore.

Reasons:

1. The Clans would benefit from a much wider assault mech selection, pinpoint AC/20, etc.
2. I am really tired of hearing IS players whine about Clan mechs.
3. I would love to have access to the fast IS lights, so we can have our own lag-shielded lolblitz.
4. AC/40 King Crabs and Jagers.
5. I would love to be able to pilot my Orion, Zeus, and Jagermech in CW.
6. I look forward to winning matches without people saying I only won because of a tech advantage.
7. I am not a Clanner for the tech, anyway; I am a Clanner because I think Clan Hell's Horses is awesome. I love their ideology, particularly the belief that a warrior's skill matters more than her/his equipment.

I still think some of the Thunderbolts have a silly set of quirks, though, that have nothing in common with what a Thunderbolt is supposed to be. Make it a wicked mid-range/brawler/multipurpose/laserboat mech or something. If you want to give the IS a dedicated ERPPC boat, put these perks on the CPLT-K2, or something that actually commonly carried multiple PPC weapons in canon.

After fighting Clan/IS mechs in my Vindicator all night during normal drops, my only Clan mech gripe is with the CT hitbox on the Stormcrow; I did not find the Timberwolf to be any scarier than an Orion or Cataphract, when I had their attention. The PPC-focused Thunderbolts were actually a much bigger problem for me, as their damage was very focused and front-loaded, and left me with exposed internals/missing limbs very quickly.

You forgot the number one reason!

#1. I am really tired of hearing Clan players whine about IS mechs.

[Demuder]

The Clans didn't give up. They are losing planets exactly for the same reason they were gaining planets at the start. A lot of strong competitive groups started out CW as Clan affiliates, now they switched to IS factions. Combine that with the fact that Steiner and FRR have greater player populations in the first place, and there you have it. No mystery, no giving up.

Only thing this proves, is that the initial Clan steamroll was not caused by any superior Clan win-button mechs (unless they broke somehow last week), just like this reversal of fortunes is not caused by any superior IS win-button mechs.

It also proves that PGI should try and find a way to balance the faction population problems, but that's another thread in itself.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sable, on 09 January 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

Some units had changed factions for the last week. Saw a lot of units changing again last night. I know for ghost bear a few good units have come back for now.

As for CW losing players, i don't know about everyone else but the Thunderbroke has stopped me from dropping for CW and i've only been doing pug drops.

Because ONE Inner Sphere Mech is giving Clanners resistance? Wow. Just Wow!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 January 2015 - 04:55 AM.

[anthony nevers]

So this is how the great clan invasion ends: with whimper and whine. I guess there will be no climatic Battle of Tukayyid, all thanks to a single chassis. Long live the TDR-9S The Bringer of Clan Tears. I guess that "L2P" the clanners were always talking about runs one way .

[ApolloKaras]

shad0w4life, on 09 January 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

Feel free to post a video showing this nonsense. The 9s flat out out out DPS's anything. I'm not talking burst I'm talking if you had 2 mechs sitting still and unloading on eachother the 9s would be just amazing, the 2 cERPPC+Gauss DW will overheat even.

What xCL advantage are you talking about, Lets talk the warhawk and losing the right torso. Clan also relies heavily on energy builds, except the energy weapons are very hot, and there's not a lot of duck and cover, cool off, peek shoot, cover. Clans sustained DPS isn't all that amazing, toss on sulphur as well and it's an uh oh moment.

Current trend is for IS to jump the gates on Sulphur with Light mechs and destroy all generators, this works amazingly well because most clan mechs will overheat before being able to drop them. A lot more STD engine lights have started appearing for this reason I noticed. It has happened enough that I called it happening to an 8 man group, who lost despite coms and teamwork.

I have a feeling a lot of the issues as well are related to clan light mechs being garbage, if we had some speed and could at least rush and cripple a few it may have evened things up.

Ummm... We at MS will jump the gate in anything... IS, clan, whatever it matters not.


This thunderbolt has been out for a while now... It's not the Thunderbolt you're having problems with itis the comp teams that moved to FRR. It takes skill to hit something with a ppc from 850m... If you are getting hit start moving you won't be out dps'd then. But what do I know, I've only played both sides and have adapted my tactics accordingly.

[Davers]

Alexander Steel, on 10 January 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

Just a couple of... "Duh...." points.

1. The 9S hasn't suddenly been buffed during the time CW has been a thing has it? During the opening couple of weeks of CS the Clans were wrecking the IS and they were doing better than all the IS powers other than Davion, who didn't have to face them.





2. I hate it when I face a horde of 9S Thunderbolts that have tons of ERPPCs AND AC/20s.

No one is complaining about AC20s. In fact, I would go as far to say that build would be rather bad.

The impression I got from some Clan threads was some pilots quit playing because they felt PGI was 'bribing people to play weaker factions' and they were going to sit out until they got bonus points too.

Edited by Davers, 10 January 2015 - 05:15 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Dan the Ice Man, on 09 January 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

ok i have heard soo many poeple about this crap what is the thunderbroke and what is the deal with it i have heard about it but i don't know what it is

clans QQ about the erppc thunberbolt,
IS QQ about the Stormcrow, Timberwolf, SRM spam.

Its tears because people won't or can't deviate from their way of playing, as I notice none QQ about the KingCrabs being over powered yet there is a truley sweet piece of play in one of BEEFs machima of 12 Gauss KC's lined up against the back wall when there was only the gates and omega, annihilating the other team 48 -0

I don't see cries of KingCrab OP

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

No one is complaining about AC20s. In fact, I would go as far to say that build would be rather bad.

Re-read the thread a clanner was in fact complaining about IS AC20's making it impossible for clan mechs to brawl with IS mechs. In fact here is the complaint so you don't have to re-read.

Quote

The clans no longer have the range advantage, so they should move to brawling? Yeah, overheating while getting shot with PPD IS ac/20s sounds super fun.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 10 January 2015 - 05:43 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cathy, on 10 January 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

clans QQ about the erppc thunberbolt,
IS QQ about the Stormcrow, Timberwolf, SRM spam.

Its tears because people won't or can't deviate from their way of playing, as I notice none QQ about the KingCrabs being over powered yet there is a truley sweet piece of play in one of BEEFs machima of 12 Gauss KC's lined up against the back wall when there was only the gates and omega, annihilating the other team 48 -0

I don't see cries of KingCrab OP

Cause they want the Mech with range broke first... THEN the Brawler will become the next target. You been here a while Cathy, you know how this works.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 January 2015 - 05:44 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alexander Steel, on 10 January 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

Re-read the thread a clanner was in fact complaining about IS AC20's making it impossible for clan mechs to brawl with IS mechs. In fact here is the complaint so you don't have to re-read.

I can't blame him. We have an AC20. they have a rapid fire AC5 firing 4 5 point shells. They have every right to complain about having their AC20 totally defanged!

[Aethon]

Abivard, on 10 January 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

You forgot the number one reason!

#1. I am really tired of hearing Clan players whine about IS mechs.

As I said, I am tired of it from both sides, but I hear a lot more whining from ignorant IS players who blindly claim Clan OPness without any real knowledge on the subject. For example, two nights ago, someone in a Battlemaster that I took down with my Nova told me I only bested him because I was in a Clan mech; I got the drop on him, and managed to use the trees on Veridian Bog for cover (trees OP too, btw), and I also got off an alpha before he even reacted. That crap is getting really old, and I hear it way too often. The Stormcrow is not my favourite mech, by far, but I avoid piloting it simply because that mech gets it a lot more, even though I just use the stock Prime variant, not an SRM30 or anything like that.

The biggest problem with balance right now is that half the people in this game are going to whine, no matter how well the balance works. There are Clan players who think the TDR-9S and Firestarter are the destroyers of worlds and cannot be countered, and there are IS players who think all Clan mechs are OP, and that they do not stand a chance. They all die when shot, although the TDR-9S needs its quirks adjusted, just like the hitboxes on the Stormcrow need adjustment. I just do not think either problem is anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

Edited by Aethon, 10 January 2015 - 07:10 AM.