313 replies to this topic

[Karl Marlow]

Caustic Canid, on 09 January 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

The clans no longer have the range advantage, so they should move to brawling? Yeah, overheating while getting shot with PPD IS ac/20s sounds super fun.

Wait what? I thought the issues the clans were whining about was waves of ERPPCs. What AC/20's are you blabbering about?

[MischiefSC]

Davers, on 11 January 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

Some might feel this is unfair, but others will point and say that it proves solo players have a definite place in CW if they use the right tactics. If a 10+ group is losing to pugs, it really is their fault.

I was in a few pug matches vs the Clan yesterday, and we were annihilated in 2 matches. One match ended before I even realized it was over- Clan Conga Line beat us in one wave. I am not sure if they even bothered to kill any of the defenders! The second match we were beaten back and farmed at our dropships. Both times by large units. It seemed most of us in both drops didn't have a lot of experience in fighting the Clans (MischiefSC excluded ) and it really showed. If more players knew what tactics to use and what to expect maybe the battles would have gone better for us, despite the fact we were pugs.

I remember that match! It was so painful.

They moved into E6/E7 and we're going 'Okay, they're going to try and attrition us out. Pull back into the buildings and don't peek. make them come up the ramp into the open.'

*half the team wanders down solo to peek over the rim and get killed*

'No, seriously, don't do that. They're going to.... yeah. Just like that.'

*people stand down in the open, poking solo against 3 or 4 enemy mechs and die*

shad0w4life, on 11 January 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

The problem with that is, say they don't bring lights, then you have a quite useless 55 tonne mech considering some of the range battles. Also 12 man firestarter Dual AMS rush really eliminates most of the missles.

Regarding the don't let them get there someone else mentioned, the Generators are quite close to the gates on Sulphur, and add on how much hotter clans run, it's quite a challenge to stop it.





This was on sulphur where the gens are near the gates, it's extremely hard to defend this without making assumptions about streak boats being needed etc. It's extremely difficult to shoot light mechs with the clan lasers due to burn times and UAC spreading damage.

The mistake people make against IS lights is trying to pop legs with lasers. I don't know if it's hitreg or what but when there are 12 enemy lights you will find that the damage you do effectively with lasers drops *drastically*. Maybe it's all the folks sprinting at 150, maybe it's just bad luck I don't know but the best trick?

Forget streaks or lasers. SRMs baby. They perform well popping Firestarters or Spiders. If you've got a clean shot take the back - they all have XLs. If you are at range, hit the legs.

Far, far cooler. With a laser boat even if you never miss you're going to pull about 2 legs before you're overheating and unable to effectively deal with the rest. SRMs run way cooler - you can just pound SRMs on legs through all 12 and when they get in front of Omega you whack them with 3xSRM6 or 4xSRM4 in the back and they tend to pop.

For the IS the best option against them is 'defense in depth'. Lights forward, mediums mid-range, heavies in the back. You let them go past and shoot them while you chase. For Clanners you'll want to stay mid-field and be SRM heavy, not streak or laser heavy. Streaks and lasers cooldown too slowly and lasers heat up too quickly. With 12 targets to bring down you leave yourself too little margin for error. SRMs do a lot of damage and they do it with a fast refire and low heat. Your targets have 30 pts of leg armor or less and generally 15 pts of rear side torso armor. A mix of SRMs and 2 CERMLs would probably be a good sweet spot; blow that leg to orange then cut it off with the lasers.

Laservomit is the worst choice for dealing with lights. So is ERPPC spam. Too hot, too little margin for error, not sustainable enough to run down 12 lights going all over the place.

[Valdherre Tor]

Some contracts are coming to an end about this time. Also FRR sale and loyalty rewards could be a bonus for some units to jump ship.

[Caustic Canid]

ThomasMarik, on 11 January 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

Wait what? I thought the issues the clans were whining about was waves of ERPPCs. What AC/20's are you blabbering about?

The AC/20's that do 20 damage to one location. The ones the IS have. The ones clanners try to avoid by staying at long range. Those AC/20's

[Davers]

MischiefSC, on 11 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

I remember that match! It was so painful.

They moved into E6/E7 and we're going 'Okay, they're going to try and attrition us out. Pull back into the buildings and don't peek. make them come up the ramp into the open.'

*half the team wanders down solo to peek over the rim and get killed*

'No, seriously, don't do that. They're going to.... yeah. Just like that.'

*people stand down in the open, poking solo against 3 or 4 enemy mechs and die*

Yup. Is this the right thread to mention my OP 9S lasted a total of 8 seconds after I landed, surrounded by Clansmen?

[MischiefSC]

Davers, on 11 January 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

Yup. Is this the right thread to mention my OP 9S lasted a total of 8 seconds after I landed, surrounded by Clansmen?

IMPOSSIBLE! The endless, heatless spray of crit-seeking uber-Lightning makes you more than a match for 3 Warhawks at least!

Just ask all the absolutely ridiculous hyperbole posted in this thread.

[Setun]

Caustic Canid, on 11 January 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

The AC/20's that do 20 damage to one location. The ones the IS have. The ones clanners try to avoid by staying at long range. Those AC/20's

With the exception of 2 support builds I have, every single clan mech I own is built for close range brawling. IS AC-20 don't scare me. It's the long range gauss / ppc snipers I don't like fighting against (especially in very exposed maps). Unfortunately though you are right that most clan pug pilots are terrified of closing the distance....made CW clan pug drops very frustratring for sure.

Edited by Setun, 11 January 2015 - 06:28 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

Caustic Canid, on 11 January 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

The AC/20's that do 20 damage to one location. The ones the IS have. The ones clanners try to avoid by staying at long range. Those AC/20's

Yet according to you clanners the IS is only running thunderbolts and are refusing to play in CW because Thunderbolts exist. Thunderbolts don't carry AC/20s.

[Mcgral18]

ThomasMarik, on 11 January 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yet according to you clanners the IS is only running thunderbolts and are refusing to play in CW because Thunderbolts exist. Thunderbolts don't carry AC/20s.

No, I just had to remove all my fun mechs and replace them with TimberGods and DoomCrows.
Goodbye NopeVa.

Have fun.

[Lukoi Banacek]

There's a meta in every form of this game.

Comp-12 has mechs that rule it, CW has a mildly different set of options etc etc.

In the end, the thing that's OP is teamwork.

[Caustic Canid]

ThomasMarik, on 11 January 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yet according to you clanners the IS is only running thunderbolts and are refusing to play in CW because Thunderbolts exist. Thunderbolts don't carry AC/20s.

Actually my main reason for not playing CW is because I dont want to sit in a lobby for longer than it takes to play the game.

The Thunderbolts are just annoying.

[Alexander Steel]

Caustic Canid, on 11 January 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

The AC/20's that do 20 damage to one location. The ones the IS have. The ones clanners try to avoid by staying at long range. Those AC/20's

The weapon not found on the Thunderbolt 9S......

[Lily from animove]

Setun, on 11 January 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

With the exception of 2 support builds I have, every single clan mech I own is built for close range brawling. IS AC-20 don't scare me. It's the long range gauss / ppc snipers I don't like fighting against (especially in very exposed maps). Unfortunately though you are right that most clan pug pilots are terrified of closing the distance....made CW clan pug drops very frustratring for sure.

IS has the advantage in brawling and close range if their pilos have the skills to play that advantage.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 January 2015 - 04:44 AM.

[Caustic Canid]

Alexander Steel, on 11 January 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

The weapon not found on the Thunderbolt 9S......

Yeah.

My original point was that clans had lost the range advantage to the Thunderbolt.

To which the response was "Then the clans should brawl".

To which I was stating that the I.S. is better at brawling.

If the other team has 6 Tbolts and 6 2x AC/20 Phracts (or whatever) the clans lose both sniping and brawling.

[Kuritaclan]

Caustic Canid, on 12 January 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

If the other team has 6 Tbolts and 6 2x AC/20 Phracts (or whatever) the clans lose both sniping and brawling.

Well you can overcome this with Ligh Rush - nevermind false side to do so.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 12 January 2015 - 03:02 AM.

[EvilCow]

I vote to ban Thunderbolts with AC20.

[Demuder]

Caustic Canid, on 12 January 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

Yeah.

My original point was that clans had lost the range advantage to the Thunderbolt.

To which the response was "Then the clans should brawl".

To which I was stating that the I.S. is better at brawling.

If the other team has 6 Tbolts and 6 2x AC/20 Phracts (or whatever) the clans lose both sniping and brawling.

Sniping and long range are a crutch in CW - a broken crutch at that.

When defending, it's effective only against a less skilled enemy team. Since they are less skilled, you can just as easily kill them during the push. If they are more skilled than you, you are just wasting your armor and time trying to snipe/ERLaser.

When attacking, it's effective only against a less skilled enemy team. Since they are less skilled, you can just as easily kill them during the push. If they are more skilled than you, you are just wasting your armor and time trying to snipe/ERLaser.

Yeah, I copy/pasted, I hope you get my point.

Now at brawling, the AC/20 and shorter laser burn times are nothing to scoff at - they are down right frightening with quirks. But the Clans are certainly on par if you build your mech with heat management in mind. Remember, you got more maneuverability and the extra Clan XL engine torso on your side.

Edited by Demuder, 12 January 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Demuder, on 12 January 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

Sniping and long range are a crutch in CW - a broken crutch at that.

When defending, it's effective only against a less skilled enemy team. Since they are less skilled, you can just as easily kill them during the push. If they are more skilled than you, you are just wasting your armor and time trying to snipe/ERLaser.

When attacking, it's effective only against a less skilled enemy team. Since they are less skilled, you can just as easily kill them during the push. If they are more skilled than you, you are just wasting your armor and time trying to snipe/ERLaser.

Yeah, I copy/pasted, I hope you get my point.

Now at brawling, the AC/20 and shorter laser burn times are nothing to scoff at - they are down right frightening with quirks. But the Clans are certainly on par if you build your mech with heat management in mind. Remember, you got more maneuverability and the extra Clan XL engine torso on your side.

ALL tactics are really only effective against a lesser/somewhat equally skilled team, since a higher skilled team is most likely going to win regardless of what you try to do. (well unless you think rushing generators in a murderball and winning by killing PVE objectives at the expense of 30+ mechs counts as 'winning' - in my eyes thats a completely stupid game that i simply wouldn't play as its not fun)

[Demuder]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

ALL tactics are really only effective against a lesser/somewhat equally skilled team, since a higher skilled team is most likely going to win regardless of what you try to do.

So... what's your point here ? You don't use tactics at all when facing a superior opponent ? Or would it be better to use the most effective tactic - which in this case, is certainly not sniping ?

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

(well unless you think rushing generators in a murderball and winning by killing PVE objectives at the expense of 30+ mechs counts as 'winning' - in my eyes thats a completely stupid game that i simply wouldn't play as its not fun)

Rushing is an effective tactic. Locking down a position inside the enemy base and continually reinforcing it while killing the defenders is another effective tactic. Depending on who you are facing, choose appropriately - unless of course all you want is a sniping/long range skirmish "a la normal queue". I've seen both work a lot of times, from both factions, with solos and against groups as well.

[Sprouticus]

T-Bolts are fine. Annoying, but fine. They are slow and easy to counter if you are organized. They are quite tough if you are unorganized, but then again, so is pretty much any loadout.