1126 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

1ka Musume, on 20 January 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

These weapons are made to dominate... Get used to it or go back to TT.

TT made them more dominant than they ever were in MWO...

[1ka Musume]

Mcgral18, on 20 January 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

How constructive.

And this is your main argument? How poor.

Edited by 1ka Musume, 20 January 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[Johnny Z]

If there is any possibility that it can be bypassed by any scripts/macros or aim/trigger bots then no, do not add convergence.

Other than that it doesnt sound like a bad idea.

[FupDup]

Johnny Z, on 20 January 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

If there is any possibility that it can be bypassed by any scripts/macros or aim/trigger bots then no, do not add convergence.

Other than that it doesnt sound like a bad idea.

You mean alter/remove, not add. PGI already added convergence, which is what causes your guns to currently combine together to create combo-guns.

[Yokaiko]

Aresye, on 20 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

If convergence was taken out the meta would just shift to massive SRM and streak spam.

Good that would be a LOT less time wasted playing peek-a-boo and camping in the public queues.

I'd call that a win win.

[MechaBattler]

I would personally not mind the idea of a bloom effect on convergence after firing. Possibly slight bloom on movement.

But I've heard a lot of people fling hate at the idea of RNG in their shooting mechanic. Since they see it as interfering with their "Skill" based play. I would say a bloom effect after firing would require a new set of skills. But whatever.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

convergance is a part of the problem there alot of good idea's here, but something has to be done about the boats too. Otherwise the meta just shifts. Mechwarrior was never meant to be a boat game.

[Narcoleptes]

Yokaiko, on 20 January 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

Good that would be a LOT less time wasted playing peek-a-boo and camping in the public queues.

I'd call that a win win.

Yeah, with no hope of trading with LRM boaters. Certainly a win win for the LRM crowd.

[Yokaiko]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 20 January 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

convergance is a part of the problem there alot of good idea's here, but something has to be done about the boats too. Otherwise the meta just shifts. Mechwarrior was never meant to be a boat game.

Boats are fine, there are tons of boats STOCK, always has been, always will be.

Narcoleptes, on 20 January 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

Yeah, with no hope of trading with LRM boaters. Certainly a win win for the LRM crowd.

LOL

Sure there is arm mounted pin point just like always. Many have said the same thing, leave the arms with convergence as is. Just remove it completely from the torso mounts.

...plus LOL LRM boats, charge and swat just like always.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Aresye, on 20 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

If convergence was taken out the meta would just shift to massive SRM and streak spam.

Griffin 3Ms and Oxides for everyone. Race towards the enemy and laugh as RNG makes it hard for them to take you out before you hit their lines and then alpha them in the face until they explode.

On the downside, Streakcrows would be very common.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 20 January 2015 - 05:41 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

The funny thing is when ppl scream about convergence, then scream about this game should never have RNG either.

[FupDup]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 20 January 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

The funny thing is when ppl scream about convergence, then scream about this game should never have RNG either.

It's important to distinguish that alterations to the convergence system don't have to involve random factors; the best versions are the ones that don't. The stereotype is that everybody wants to roll 2d6 dice to determine where guns hit, but in reality that's an extremely tiny microscopic minority (the main proponent of it is some guy called Pht, who supposedly hasn't even ever installed the game...lel). The vast majority of people shun him for the heretic he is.


My favorite example is Homeless Bill's Targeting Computer Load system. http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

Basically it gives you two choices:
1. Fire guns in small groups or individually to achieve the same effect we have now.
2. Fire a huge group of guns and they fire parallel (unconverged) from their hardpoints.


There are other ideas floating around out there as well, perhaps more commonly for the weapon convergence to have a brief delay rather than being instantaneous (with unconverged weapons firing parallel instead of random). There might even be individual reticules for each body part to better illustrate that the gun's didn't combine their fire yet.

Edited by FupDup, 20 January 2015 - 05:48 PM.

[Xetelian]

So we don't have the technology for convergence in 3050?

[FupDup]

Xetelian, on 20 January 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

So we don't have the technology for convergence in 3050?

Lostech™.

Sort of like how "long range" in Battletech is 540 meters, which can be beaten by some modern-day infantry weapons...

[Brody319]

Convergence doesn't really do that much really. It would favor some mechs immensly and hurt some mechs even worse.

Streak Crow has no problems since all it needs is a lock and its shots will fly in the same area.
Torso loaded mechs will have no issues adapting.
However mechs with weapons in the arms would suffer, Sure the Direwolf and timberwolf would suffer some, but so would the Gargoyle, Summoner, King Crab, and more.

Make convergence take to long and mechs that are decent or good now, will just die.
Make it too short and you just shouldn't have put it in at all.

[Hotthedd]

To be sure, pinpoint convergence COUPLED with front-loaded damage ALPHA STRIKES are a game breaking mechanic in a game where a mech can be destroyed by killing one or two sections only.

Here are a few easy fixes:

1) Remove Alpha strikes altogether.
In TT, even firing all your weapons meant firing them one after the other, over a 10 second period.
This is the simplest remedy, but the QQ here would cause a flood.

2) Have every weapon fire straight forward in an Alpha strike, so even facehugging would not have all shots land on one location.

3) Harmonics. Have every weapon in the game set to hit the reticle at its maximum distance.
If you really wanted to get fancy and add to the customization, allow that distance for each individual weapon to be altered in the mechlab.

#3 is my favorite, as it allows any build, keeps the ability to alpha strike, but ADDS a layer of skill to the game. (I always laugh out loud at the people who think pointing and clicking is aiming)

[Yokaiko]

FupDup, on 20 January 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Lostech™.

Sort of like how "long range" in Battletech is 540 meters, which can be beaten by some modern-day infantry weapons...

Some?

Marines qualify rifles with a nearly 70 year old design M-14 at 500 yards.

A 5"/54cal Naval rifle weighs in at about 6 tons (20 counting the 20 round autoloader and mount) and fires for 9 MILES (that 14.5km for you metric types) and maxes out over the horizon, you can't see where it lands at full range, you need that Marine and a radio to spot for you.

....and by the way that 5" also fires about 800m/s .....close to PPC speeds

[AEgg]

The only way I see non-instant convergence working is if we set our convergence value in the mechlab and cannot change it in a match.

So I could set my PPCs to converge at 500m and my ML to converge at 200m if I wanted to, and just learn to offset my aim ingame if firing outside of that range.

That would be interesting, but very confusing since most people don't understand the concept of convergence (see all the "I don't want random" posts in this thread). Maybe have stock mechs have instant convergence, but as soon as you buy a mech, you get a dialog telling you how convergence works.

Edit: This also solves the problem of too much computation for the game server. In fact, static convergence is even less computation than the instant convergence we have right now, since there's no realtime calculation at all.

Edited by AEgg, 20 January 2015 - 06:09 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I do not want to get rid of convergence. At the most, I think having players set a fixed range for convergence like we did with aircraft in World War II would be acceptable, but not getting rid of it entirely.

What I would rather see are the following:

• Recoil on ballistic weapons and PPCs
  
• Ballistic weapons set to fire smaller, less damaging rounds in bursts or continuously
  
• Lower heat cap with greater dissipation
  
• No ghost heat
  
• HUD shake while walking, improved with more advanced gyros/gyro modules

It's already a lot of work to take down a target in a 'Mech like the Locust. That's fun, but do we really need to hit that thing with a nerf-bat, intentionally or otherwise?

[Cragger]

Removing convergence wont solve this point alpha issue, sorry. It will just make certain battlemechs better at it that have their weapons stacked closely together. Thunderbolt 9S, Orion 1V, Atlas-D, blackjacks, Laserback, Nova, Timberwolf etc. Most of these will still have their stacked weapons hit the same location.

The ONLY solution keeping the current hardpoints is to introduce MoA like all weapons have. Slight variance each shot will have each time. Even though this is realistic in real life because each projectile and each propellant charge, and atmospheric effects will have an offset effect on the firearm and even a laser due to diffusion and refraction of the atmosphere. Not to mention tolerance discrepancies between the targeting controller and the weapon's boresight.

BUT, this will never happen because all the twitchers will raise holy hell about 'RNG' interfering with their godly gamer skills. Because 99% of them have no real experience with sharpshooting and marksmanship and think that every weapon fires straight and true to where you think it is pointed.

The other solution is to stop giving so many battlemechs so many extra hardpoints to make high pintpoint alpha builds. Which heh, well good luck with that happening now at this point.