1126 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

If it is true that convergence is not currently "instant", and I believe that to be true because without Arm Lock on, there is lag in the arms getting back to center when swung really wide and back again, why not "add" more time to the convergence window with each addition weapon added to a Mech and base the addition solely on those weapons added to the arms of Mechs.

Torso based weapons don't traverse independent of the torso structure so no worries. Arm mounts on the other hand certainly do. No idea on how to represent this "additional convergence time" but surely something could be found that makes sense and looks good to.

Not sure what to do about Arm Lock though.

Edited by Almond Brown, 10 April 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[Summon3r]

Hotthedd, on 09 April 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

Random. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

If you know your convergence is set at 500m, and you weapons are on your right side, and your target is 400m away, moving laterally at a constant speed, A GOOD pilot will STILL hit the target.

its only cause people that run absolutely nothing but meta cheese 100% of the time and think they are 1337 are skurred that removal of pinpoint will make them not so 1337.. seriously lets be honest here

PS what would also help this issue if they dont want to remove pin point convergence would be some actual recoil on ballistics and missiles maybe

[Y E O N N E]

WWII-like fixed-distance convergence is something I would sign up for. Unlike a dynamic Cone of Fire based on movement, it doesn't totally handicap my Locust.

[Dimento Graven]

Tim East, on 08 April 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

...

Truth here. Heat system could definitely use some serious revision. However, that's not the topic of this thread, nor does it change the fact that instant convergence is a touch unrealistic from both a canon and real-world viewpoint.

The topic of this thread is going for an assumption that there's something wrong with convergence as it functions within the game now.

That assumption is wrong, incorrect, and self-serving to weak players who don't think that stupid play should result in their quick deaths, hence the need to try and direct the conversation to the REALL issue, chain alphas.

It isn't the fact that alpha'd weapons will, most of the time, pin point on the same location when fired, it's the fact that 'mechs can chain alpha repeatedly with very little risk.

Eliminate the ability for no risk alpha firing, and you fundamentally restructure this game on a tactical level.

Quote

I also seem to recall you writing in an earlier post about applying reticule shake to mechs that run hot. I kind of like this idea, but would like to see it taken farther. Why not substitute reticule shake for any condition affecting your mech that would give a to-hit penalty in BT? They already have it in place (sort of) for jumping, we could add movement to the list (at a graduated curve, no less) having actuators or sensors damaged via critical hit, and as you mentioned, heat. How ridiculously cool would that be? Criticals that matter. HAH!

It shows how little some people pay attention, there is already some targeting variability while moving. Changes in terrain and the like ensure an 'unsmooth' targeting at distance, up close, say 500 meters or less, as mentioned in other posts, the targets are large enough the differences are insignificant.

Quote

Though I think for this it might be a bit better to simply apply the cone of fire for each weapon system and not shake the reticule. It's not like your targeting computer is going to be able to tell you how far off of aligned your floppy, actuator-less arm is at the moment without some kind of crazy complicated internal sensor network constantly monitoring your mech's systems. Like an advanced battle damage detection system of some manner.

The only people who want cone of fire are the ones regularly dying to pin point. Some of the pro-CoF advocates in this thread have been my victims on the battlefield many times.

And yes, my assumption is, to be able to even function as a viable machine, all our 'mechs have crazy amounts of feed back systems.

We'll try this 20th century equivalent: Stealth Fighters.

Most stealth fighters can't be flown by human skill alone, there is a very complex flight control system that provides continuous feed back to the flight computer that provides real time updates to those controls in order to keep the craft in the air. Effectively the fighter pilot is just telling the craft where he wants to go and the computers are doing the actual flying.

In my 'imaginings' of our Futuristic BattleTech Universe, you have the same sort of situation. The pilot is there to provide the machine a human sense of balance, and a sense of purpose the "Where am I going and who am I killing."

From that perspective having fast convergence, and minor randomness with reticule shake under specific conditions doesn't seem unreasonable.

[TheCobra]

Hotthedd, on 09 April 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

Random. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

If you know your convergence is set at 500m, and you weapons are on your right side, and your target is 400m away, moving laterally at a constant speed, A GOOD pilot will STILL hit the target.

Dimento is obviously attacking the players personally for a suggestion, with the "You are obviously bad for wanting to remove convergence" and such, combined with his passive-aggressive atittude you can totally disregard his comments, as he is clearly flaming this argument.

Set convergence is being used in a very popular game called war thunder, where you can set your guns convergence for a plane. Still take skill, and adds depht since you have to control your engagement distances carefully, not getting too close or far. He does not understand that the gun is going to fire in the same spot EVERY TIME, hence there is no "coin toss".

It makes it very clear that some people here are meta-tards that want a twitch 180 no scope game, not a cool mech game, and want their precious metamechs to be untouched.

[Y E O N N E]

War Thunder is just doing what real pilots did...and it's awesome.

Fixed convergence distance means you have to make some decisions with your super-quirk lasers. Do you set those ERLL to converge at max range so you can get maximum utility out of their range, or do you set it for some point in the middle to keep it somewhat viable as a defensive munition?

Fixed convergence could even provide impetus for reducing the cone of fire on the MGs, and who wouldn't want that?

[Dimento Graven]

Quxudica, on 08 April 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

A future based on the 1980's. Computers are very very primitive. But this is all irrelevant, the reason for changing convergence is not lore accuracy - it's to improve game play.

That's not a universal constant in the BT universe. Yes, SOME technologies have been knocked back to 20th century levels, and SOME planets were blasted into pre-industrial levels of technology, but there's still vast FUTURE technology in place all around the known BT universe.

KF Drives
Portable lasers
Portable particle cannons
Portable Fusion Engines
FTL communication (based off the KF drive theories)
myomer cable

And many, many others. For those who want to say, "OH NO, NONE OF THE TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE IS BEYOND 1980 IBM XT LEVEL COMPUTERS, SO PINPOINT IS THE DEVIL!" are purposely focusing on minutia to try and give their unreasonable perspective some legitimacy.

All it does it emphasize how unreasonable they are.

[Dimento Graven]

Quxudica, on 09 April 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

Pretty much. BT computers, at least the ones on mechs (not sure about ships), are basically DOS boxes and the mechs themselves are not new. They are mostly family heirlooms passed down the line from generation to generation. Shot up, patched, blown apart, repaired, busted and salvaged over and over and over again.

...

We're well beyond the 2900's, very early 3000's in that time line.

In the 3050's, effectively we're in a short 'golden age' of technological progress with more and more technologies being rediscovered and new ones being invented.

Eventually we'll swing back to the new dark age (I hope not, that was a crappy period in the BT universe, it was stupid).

[TheCobra]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 April 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

War Thunder is just doing what real pilots did...and it's awesome.

Fixed convergence distance means you have to make some decisions with your super-quirk lasers. Do you set those ERLL to converge at max range so you can get maximum utility out of their range, or do you set it for some point in the middle to keep it somewhat viable as a defensive munition?

Fixed convergence could even provide impetus for reducing the cone of fire on the MGs, and who wouldn't want that?

And we know that the MGs really need a buff. Also it would make it a lot harder to aim with gauss, opening the possibility to rolling back to the non-charge gauss.

Also would add more relevance to the armor, since right now speed is king.

[Weeny Machine]

Marmon Rzohr, on 09 April 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Why do you think removing convergence will help ?

The cornerstones of MechWarrior combat are:

1) Multiple weapon management

</p>I don't want to be disrespectful but I laughed so hard when I consider the matches - the vast majority of mechs are laser spammers. So please...nope, currently there is no multiple weapon management unless you mean spamming as many lasers as possible until your heat gauge spikes and then look for a place to cool down /yawn

[Kuritaclan]

@Cobra

you arn't better than him, you say he is passiv-agressiv and attacking the players personaly. Well you do it to with your indirect "meta-tard" discrediting.

@
When i read KuroNyra: The lore say it otherwise or this post by Mystere who quote Joseph Mallan with the:

Quote

According to Lore the tech is not much better early 20th century when it comes to targeting. Many of the Targeting Computers are unable to calculate the targeting of 3 weapons or more. hence teh CoF.

it is just full assumtions. Best given evidence comes out of the lore itself, what KraftySOT in #598 wrote to explain why all is so bad, remain that the era we now in is just fine techwise:
By 3049. They build the first Jump Ship in over 500 years.
to builkt Jump Ships you need enormous knowledge on computers for targeting the right jump. If this computers fail you gone die without a sun to recharge. So whats up. The ability to built such powerfull tech in reinvented in the time periode we play, but all are in denial, that much lower tech like a simple target computer with aimgearing for weapons isn't possible.

*headshaking*

This stuff of fix mounted weaopons which some people wanna bring in here is no way to go, i rather would stick to cones for ballistics deplaced by physical effects such as air/gravity and praise the rnjesus to save my but against whatever runs straight at me.

Bush Hopper, on 09 April 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

</p>I don't want to be disrespectful but I laughed so hard when I consider the matches - the vast majority of mechs are laser spammers. So please...nope, currently there is no multiple weapon management unless you mean spamming as many lasers as possible until your heat gauge spikes and then look for a place to cool down /yawn

Since there are enough mechs which boat lasers or other weapons by design, you won't wanna argue that what is happening in the game right now did not bee a isue of the BT universe itself. If there is no balance between weapons in this game and the falling short to one group, it allways be the meta. This is also found in BT, since full lasers boats don't need to be replenished taking long scouting missions and or gurillia warfare. So don't argue around bad weapon balanced what get even worse with all those quikrs to make up a point against boating which is legit since there are a couple mechs with full boated weapon designs.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 09 April 2015 - 11:47 AM.

[TheCobra]

Kuritaclan, on 09 April 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

@Cobra

you arn't better than him, you say he is passiv-agressiv and attacking the players personaly. Well you do it to with your indirect "meta-tard" discrediting.

@
When i read KuroNyra: The lore say it otherwise or this post by Mystere who quote Joseph Mallan with the:

it is just full assumtions. Best given evidence comes out of the lore itself, what KraftySOT in #598 wrote to explain why all is so bad, remain that the era we now in is just fine techwise:
By 3049. They build the first Jump Ship in over 500 years.
to builkt Jump Ships you need enormous knowledge on computers for targeting the right jump. If this computers fail you gone die without a sun to recharge. So whats up. The ability to built such powerfull tech in reinvented in the time periode we play, but all are in denial, that much lower tech like a simple target computer with aimgearing for weapons isn't possible.

*headshaking*

This stuff of fix mounted weaopons which some people wanna bring in here is no way to go, i rather would stick to cones for ballistics deplaced by physical effects such as air/gravity and praise the rnjesus to save my but against whatever runs straight at me.

The meta is what breaks games. Why have 170 mechs if people only use 6? They broke the poptart meta because they know how toxic a hard meta can be and the players that use it.

I call meta-tards the idiots that can't build their own mechs and go online to find the most "1337" build to "pwn tha n00bz". The start crying because they will suck forever in somthing that wasn't made by someone else, and clearly want nothing but to see the KDR go up.

This is not what BT is about this should change. I didn't called anyone specifically a meta-tard so stop putting words in my mouth.

Also, have you seen the size of computers in jump-ships, not to mention the huge crew? Don't compare a mech to a huge star ship, please. You are making a fool out of yourself.

EDIT: Also most of the tech was salvaged from older hardware, so a lot of this stuff they know how to use, but not manufacture, since after the end of the SLDF the Inner Sphere pretty much "forgot" all the tech they had before, with the exeption of the ComStar.

Edited by TheCobra, 09 April 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Mechmisfit]

I have to say I don't mind things the way they are all that much but would be more than willing to try a few ideas to spread damage a bit. Weapons being more inaccurate while on the move would help a lot and make sense. A 65 ton mech should probably not be able to pip an ace 500 meters away at a dead run. Those heavy footfalls should move the target at least a little bit. Maybe a using a much smaller hud shake similar to jump jets while moving would do the trick.

[Dimento Graven]

TheCobra, on 09 April 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

And we know that the MGs really need a buff. Also it would make it a lot harder to aim with gauss, opening the possibility to rolling back to the non-charge gauss.

Also would add more relevance to the armor, since right now speed is king.

All this does ZERO to laser spamming.

Most of the people spamming lasers now aren't really aiming, they just get the bulk of your 'mech under the cross hairs and start spamming fire.

Convergence, CoF, et al, doesn't change the fact that being able to spam upwards of 12 weapons multiple times without any real risk to your own 'mech's well being is the root of the issue.

If when they fired their first alpha, their 'mech slowed down significantly and their reticule started shaking like they were jumping or being hit by missiles, making the second shot not easily aimed, they would play differently.

As it is, even if you remove convergence, guaranteeing EVERY weapon hit a different component EVERY time a person alpha'd you'd get: alpha, alpha, alpha, ok I'm a bit hot so one more, alpha, run off at full unhindered speed, cool off, run back, alpha, alpha, alpha... rinse and repeat...

No skill required, just more vomiting required before the target dies, and because the target doesn't have any pinpoint either, they can't simply use aiming skill to leg the mofo and end his stupidity, OH NO, now THEY are FORCED to counter with their own spamming alphas in hopes they do enough damage to dissuade the first idiot from coming back.

Is this what you REALLY want?!?!

[TheCobra]

Dimento Graven, on 09 April 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

All this does ZERO to laser spamming.

Most of the people spamming lasers now aren't really aiming, they just get the bulk of your 'mech under the cross hairs and start spamming fire.

Convergence, CoF, et al, doesn't change the fact that being able to spam upwards of 12 weapons multiple times without any real risk to your own 'mech's well being is the root of the issue.

If when they fired their first alpha, their 'mech slowed down significantly and their reticule started shaking like they were jumping or being hit by missiles, making the second shot not easily aimed, they would play differently.

As it is, even if you remove convergence, guaranteeing EVERY weapon hit a different component EVERY time a person alpha'd you'd get: alpha, alpha, alpha, ok I'm a bit hot so one more, alpha, run off at full unhindered speed, cool off, run back, alpha, alpha, alpha... rinse and repeat...

No skill required, just more vomiting required before the target dies, and because the target doesn't have any pinpoint either, they can't simply use aiming skill to leg the mofo and end his stupidity, OH NO, now THEY are FORCED to counter with their own spamming alphas in hopes they do enough damage to dissuade the first idiot from coming back.

Is this what you REALLY want?!?!

Did you even bother to read about fixed convergence? Or are you just so amused by your own voice that you don't care to read what is being said?

You WILL have pinpoint... at a certain range that YOU choose. If you control your engagement and keep your converging distance you will pinpoint the leg of that stupid mo-fo that is going back and forth behind cover. Or just add a reasonable covergence time, not almost instant. Maybe not perfct convergence when you are running.

This is turning too much into a twitch shooter and not a mech simulator, thst is the problem. It feels like I'm playing CS and everybody got an AWP.

Trust me, I pinpoint most times where I want, but I will give that away 100 times out of 100 for a better game. I could care less about KDR or that stat padding BS.

[Kuritaclan]

TheCobra, on 09 April 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

The meta is what breaks games. Why have 170 mechs if people only use 6? They broke the poptart meta because they know how toxic a hard meta can be and the players that use it.

For example clan mechs what in first place is not fixable by qirks but rather to abandon selfset mechlab rules would up the numbers to nearly full use depending on what you set free to equip. oO.

This is a reason you dont see 170 mechs used. You don't see 170 mechs used because weapons need to counter each other out but lasers are at this timeset the jack of all trades - latly improved by 3 gh apllyed instead of 2. SInce crybabys will cry and when they have what they want but don't be better after the chang and cry again, i guess we will see more cry.

TheCobra, on 09 April 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

I call meta-tards the idiots that can't build their own mechs and go online to find the most "1337" build to "pwn tha n00bz". The start crying because they will suck forever in somthing that wasn't made by someone else, and clearly want nothing but to see the KDR go up.

This is not what BT is about this should change. I didn't called anyone specifically a meta-tard so stop putting words in my mouth.

You came up with it. You blame many people which are not your way, to be meta tards and don't follow your idea how this game have to be played.

TheCobra, on 09 April 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

Also, have you seen the size of computers in jump-ships, not to mention the huge crew? Don't compare a mech to a huge star ship, please. You are making a fool out of yourself.

They don't use tubes like a zuze did to make the equations, so stop to think in redicouls scales that those computers are big as houses. And if they are and they have to be semiconductor or something advanced to have enough computepower, it will be even more small things. Since a calaculator were invented before the computer not the other way around, as you suggests and some like you and yell: "lore lore lore".

TheCobra, on 09 April 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

EDIT: Also most of the tech was salvaged from older hardware, so a lot of this stuff they know how to use, but not manufacture, since after the end of the SLDF the Inner Sphere pretty much "forgot" all the tech they had before, with the exeption of the ComStar.

We know this story and it is fine, but stop fulling your commen sence with building new star ships as described by lore, with your jump bakc thought of "salvage/older hardware". It is easier to reenginer something. Hack the brits did it to netherlands. The germans did it to the brits. the chinese did it to the world for thousends of years. Why should our mankind behavior change in the future. You just focus the timeline with your impressions as nais the best described institution would not even exist up to this time.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 09 April 2015 - 12:16 PM.

[PPMcBiggs]

Haven't read all 31 pages but here is my opinion:

There should be a minimum distance at which the weapons no longer converge perfectly (say 20m, or make it dependent on weapon/chassis/hardpoint). Beyond that distance convergence is perfect. This makes sense in my mind: there is only so much a weapon can move on its mount "gimbal" and mechs are fairly wide. (these weapons must have gimbals for the targeting computer to work right?) This would make close range brawls more interesting in my opinion as if you are too close only half of your weapons may hit.

To argue beyond this is pretty silly. First of all if you are upset you got killed because of pinpoint convergence you need to fight your battles before the 31st century (and maybe even before the late 20th century). If you are crying because you got head shot from 1000m+ then sorry: sniper doing his job.

Devs have explained many times there is already a CoF (or perhaps more correctly field of fire, combined with AoE or splash) for missiles and artillery. This makes good sense to me.

Lasers and ballistics make good sense to have REALLY good convergence. Even today multiple, geographically separate, howitzers can be fired in a salvo to have all rounds hit the same target at the same time with VERY good precision, good enough to be called pinpoint. Seems like 1000 years from now we ought to be able to make a single weapons platform able to do this with however few weapons it can carry. See here for what an old analog computer can do IRL, imagine what a modern super computer could do let alone a 31st century computer.

Further there is only so much precision in the game. Specifically with regard to scaling. If you are 500m+ out everything about your mech is smaller than it is at 100m. Cockpits in particular get small enough as to be less than 1pixel big pretty quick I am sure, but areas such as CT, LT/RT, legs, arms stay big enough to hit. Soon it gets hard for humans to be able to tell exactly which part they hit especially when things like movement and network lag/processing are factored in but I trust the programmers have done their job good enough to get it mostly right most of the time, but there are always tolerances in any system and this must be remembered. I think to change the game from how it currently behaves would have many (more!) people complaining about broken hit boxes, broken hit registration etc. No one wants more whining.

My opinion: keep pinpoint accuracy beyond a minimum distance and modify convergence within the minimum. This will make brawls more interesting and increase the effectiveness of lights/meds up close (in terms of both weapons and armor).

Alistair Winter, on 20 January 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

It's something I see talked about a lot on the forum. People shaking their heads at the pinpoint convergence of mechs with 60-80 damage alpha strikes, and people who still think ghost heat was a bad solution that ultimately didn't fix the real problem.

Do the majority of players want to get rid of convergence? If you don't know what I'm talking about, convergence is the mech's ability to focus all firepower on the exact same spot, as opposed to firing weapons directly forward and thus hitting different spots depending on how far apart the weapons are mounted. Right now, two torso mounted weapons will hit the same exact spot at any range. If you removed convergence, the torso mounted weapons would fire in parallell trajectories and it would be impossible for a CPLT-K2 with gauss to hit the same Center Torso with both weapons simultaneously, for example.

Is this what the community wants, or is it simply a Vocal Minority™? Or do the majority of players actually prefer the status quo, with perfect convergence? If it's the latter, what is the more popular solution to the MWO arm's race? Is it another look at how heat works? Greater penalties for overheating?

It's an old topic, but people do change their opinions now and again. At least, some of us do. Right now, I'm really not sure what the consensus is, if there is one. Most people only post in the General forum and PGI won't let us have polls here.

[Dimento Graven]

TheCobra, on 09 April 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

Did you even bother to read about fixed convergence? Or are you just so amused by your own voice that you don't care to read what is being said?

You WILL have pinpoint... at a certain range that YOU choose. If you control your engagement and keep your converging distance you will pinpoint the leg of that stupid mo-fo that is going back and forth behind cover. Or just add a reasonable covergence time, not almost instant. Maybe not perfct convergence when you are running.

This is turning too much into a twitch shooter and not a mech simulator, thst is the problem. It feels like I'm playing CS and everybody got an AWP.

Trust me, I pinpoint most times where I want, but I will give that away 100 times out of 100 for a better game. I could care less about KDR or that stat padding BS.

Are you so worried that someone doesn't agree that your 'idea' is the next thing to sliced bread that you can't see the very valid point.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU DO TO CONVERGENCE WHEN THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT PEOPLE CAN SPAM ALPHAS!

You could make it random from second to second, remove it altogether, create 12 different cones of fire, put coin flips on every weapon, etc. etc. etc. etc.

THE PROBLEM IS SPAMMING ALPHAS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE HAS NO IMMEDIATE DOWNSIDE.

The person running up to and vomiting lasers, ballistics, et al, doesn't give a crap that his weapons are converged, MOST of those types of players aren't trying to target a specific component anyway, they're just going for the CENTER of the 'mech shape in front of them, that's it.

So f'ing with convergence doesn't do anything towards fixing the actual problem.

As far as the rest of the stuff about "KDR" and "stat padding", bullshit. I call bullshit on that. If you don't care about dying, why are you here then? Why do you have a problem with pin point at all then? So what if you die from pin point fire, you're eventually gonna do the same to someone else with your pin point fire...

From the tone of most of the supporters of CoF, or those that want to do with convergence, I get the impression they don't play like they're aiming at anything. From the impressions I get a lot of these are people who are primarily medium/short range brawlers, or missile spammers (be it streak, SRM or LRM) who can't seem to fathom the fact that the convergence methodology currently works BOTH WAYS:

IE: All my weapons converge, just like yours.

Again, the only way I can see them missing that point is that they are almost always dropping with weapons that don't have any convergence. They don't see "convergence" working for them, because they don't equip weapons that can utilize it.

I'm deadly with all weapons systems in this game.

I am pretty darn good playing all weight classes.

I can tell you, the REAL problem is the spam alpha problem, not convergence.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 09 April 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

PPMcBiggs, on 09 April 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Haven't read all 31 pages but here is my opinion:

There should be a minimum distance at which the weapons no longer converge perfectly (say 20m, or make it dependent on weapon/chassis/hardpoint). Beyond that distance convergence is perfect.

GOOD NEWS!!! That's actually how it works now, though I think it's like 30 meters.

Anything underneath 30 meters and you can't reliably count on "both" your weapons hitting the target. It's why lights can run up RIGHT ON YOU, and you miss them even though you had your target reticule squarely on their CT. When fighting lights up close count on one weapon hitting if you lead them 'just' enough.

[TheCobra]

Dimento Graven, on 09 April 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

Are you so worried that someone doesn't agree that your 'idea' is the next thing to sliced bread that you can't see the very valid point.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU DO TO CONVERGENCE WHEN THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT PEOPLE CAN SPAM ALPHAS!

You could make it random from second to second, remove it altogether, create 12 different cones of fire, put coin flips on every weapon, etc. etc. etc. etc.

THE PROBLEM IS SPAMMING ALPHAS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE HAS NO IMMEDIATE DOWNSIDE.

The person running up to and vomiting lasers, ballistics, et al, doesn't give a crap that his weapons are converged, MOST of those types of players aren't trying to target a specific component anyway, they're just going for the CENTER of the 'mech shape in front of them, that's it.

So f'ing with convergence doesn't do anything towards fixing the actual problem.

As far as the rest of the stuff about "KDR" and "stat padding", bullshit. I call bullshit on that. If you don't care about dying, why are you here then? Why do you have a problem with pin point at all then? So what if you die from pin point fire, you're eventually gonna do the same to someone else with your pin point fire...

From the tone of most of the supporters of CoF, or those that want to do with convergence, I get the impression they don't play like they're aiming at anything. From the impressions I get a lot of these are people who are primarily medium/short range brawlers, or missile spammers (be it streak, SRM or LRM) who can't seem to fathom the fact that the convergence methodology currently works BOTH WAYS:

IE: All my weapons converge, just like yours.

Again, the only way I can see them missing that point is that they are almost always dropping with weapons that don't have any convergence. They don't see "convergence" working for them, because they don't equip weapons that can utilize it.

I'm deadly with all weapons systems in this game.

I am pretty darn good playing all weight classes.

I can tell you, the REAL problem is the spam alpha problem, not convergence.

Sigh... You think I'm here because I'm dying too much? No. I'm here because the game feels like a twitch shooter (repeating myself here, since you don't care to fully read other people's post). For that I have dozens of games, I don't want another twitch shooter, I want a battletech shooter.

Calling people bad players only discredit yourself, since it is very obvious that you are not tackling the subject, but the person.

And I have said earlier that I LIKE your heat suggestion, with the exception of random ammo explosions (You said it yourself that laser are already a problem, I don't want ballistics or missiles to get gimped even more).

But still the cirgical precision that people have at the moment feels very twitchy and I don't thank that is what the players or the devs want. I also have stated before that I despise cone of fire, since that is actually what would make the game very silly.

I will say it again. In my opinion the best solution is a large increase in convergence time. Maybe 2~3 seconds if you are stationary, 5 seconds if running. Alphas completly reset convergence, as well as heat.

Try reading the other peoples ideas, they might be good.

EDIT: Typo.

Edited by TheCobra, 09 April 2015 - 12:32 PM.