1126 replies to this topic

[Zerstorer Stallin]

YES its bad, as long as we get rid of the insane mech lab crap as well. IE 8 SMPL, 6 LRL, and on and on and on..

Just stop it the meta is bad.

[Dino Might]

Removing pinpoint convergence would not put a lower ceiling on skill - it would actually increase the ceiling and make the game a lot more interesting. I think a small cone of fire effect or, better yet, reticle bloom would be fantastic. It could even give a reason to go something other than zero percent or full throttle all the time.

Those pilots with better aim would still kill enemy mechs faster than those with worse aim. Someone holding dead center torso will have more shots land than someone spraying them around, with or without cone of fire. So why not put in cone of fire for each weapon and see what happens?

[A Large Infant]

NRP, on 07 April 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

I haven't played a shooter without convergence, but just thinking about what it would be like, I imagine it would totally ruin the game play. You'd never be able to kill anything. Whole matches would go by with 24 live mechs still standing at the end with yellow armor.

Do you play a lot of shooters with alpha-striking many weapons at once? I'm drawing a blank on which other games feature something like that

[Dino Might]

NRP, on 07 April 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

I haven't played a shooter without convergence, but just thinking about what it would be like, I imagine it would totally ruin the game play. You'd never be able to kill anything. Whole matches would go by with 24 live mechs still standing at the end with yellow armor.

Sounds like you need to try some other shooters. Even America's Army (free game) had more realistic aiming/shooting than games like COD. You had sight alignment affected by movement, reticle alignment and range input, and parallax. You didn't last long in that game once you got spotted, though. TTK is not simply dependent on the ability to hitscan at 1000m. It's a combination of factors.

[shellashock]

Ironic that OP uses dual Gauss K2 as example for convergence considering that the ballistics in a K2 are quite close together compared to wider mechs like the Jagermech and would have an easier time converging.

I personally have no issue with PP convergence right now and could really care less (its more of an arcade style deathmatch game instead of a simulator so no skin off my back). I would be fine if we had a sway to the reticule when on the move like we currently have in 3rd person mode; as this would encourage a trade off between moving and timing for shots compared to easier shots at a standstill. This would keep a fair balance between more realism and game balance without adding a lot of fancy mechanics that would make the game much harder (IMO) to play.

[Kausteck]

I fully support the removal of [instant] convergence.

If pinpoint damage is de-emphasized, it will open up a whole new world of weapon variety and mech build strategy.

I also support thread necromancy if it continues to address a concern that has not yet been met or commented on from PGI.

Edited by Kausteck, 07 April 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[sycocys]

I'm all for a cone of fire system, but I honestly don't think the programmers we currently or even previously had are capable of it and thats why we get the easy mod quirk system so the dev team can play around like they are balancing the game while accomplishing very little.

[A Large Infant]

I would like to add my support to lowering of the heat cap and raising of heat dissipation so that mechs cannot absorb 50 points of heat for 70 damage in a single strike

[NRP]

Regarding "realistic" shooters such as America's Army versus CoD, remind me . . . which game is more popular? ****, I think I just answered the OP's question.

[WarZ]

I would say majority do not.

My vote is NO. Leave convergence as is. Mainly because all the proposals I've seen are clunky and sound just terrible to play. There are other ways to regulate weapons which have not even been attempted yet. No need to destroy a fundamental aiming mechanic that makes this game a pleasure to play instead of an exercise in annoyance.

[Dimento Graven]

Only the bad players want to remove convergence.

I've yet to see a player I would consider "good" actually complain about convergence.

[Zordicron]

On convergence of itself as a game mechanic for MWO:
I recall one of the dev's saying something, and of course numerous players, that this game will remain a "stuff shoots where you aim" type of shooter, even though it does not translate the source material (or tabletop) in any way.

I am fine with that. I think a lot of players would get butthurt over losing control of the target crosshair, and IMO the amount of code work to go into that, just to test even on test server for an extended run is not worth it. I feel there would be some severe fallout from the playerbase. We have had a lot of things messed with over the years here, heat, projectile speed, dmg numbers, HSR tweaks, etc. We have never had(since open beta) actual aiming mechanics messed with.

thats why I want to see heat changed. People say it would be too restrictive, but thing is it isn;t restrictive so much as just different. basically, it shifts the game away from alphas and more toward DPS. IMO, that is what we need. IMO, it also would be less intensive a code issue, and a lot more easily tweaked once in place. It should get done, and thrown onto test server for months for an extended test/tweak session. I mean maybe a little goes a long way? but maybe we need something harsher then a 10% cut in cap room to break these laser vomit alpha boats down to somthing less then instagank.

And it wouldnt even negate the loadouts for 100% certain, it may just end up that the same loadout has to chainfire for the dmg output instead of gank and hide to cool like it is now.







Somewhere between instagank and running in circles tickling each other is a heat cap/dissipation rate that feels like Battletech/mechwarrior. I just want to see the system put on test so the devs can find it.

[Roadbuster]

Get rid of arm lock for the start.

And I also support the idea of lower heat capacity but faster heat dissipation.
Alpha striking should not be the standard.

[Corrado]

Kausteck, on 07 April 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

I fully support the removal of [instant] convergence.

If pinpoint damage is de-emphasized, it will open up a whole new world of weapon variety and mech build strategy.

I also support thread necromancy if it continues to address a concern that has not yet been met or commented on from PGI.

remove pinpoint, then where the difference of spreading damage with homing missiles and aiming based weapons will be none, the average player will just move to LRMS/CStreaks6.

have fun then playing AIM 9L sidewinder online.

[RoboPatton]

PGI response:



I think the Genie is out of the bottle. Heck, we still don't have melee, working elbow technology, invisible walls fixed, new game modes. I don't think PGI is about the flip it all.

I wouldn't mind some "spread" to boat shots. Or a delay to convergence, that when you move your torso radically it might take a moment for all the components to get to that "laser dot precision."

[Weeny Machine]

Corrado, on 07 April 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

remove pinpoint, then where the difference of spreading damage with homing missiles and aiming based weapons will be none, the average player will just move to LRMS/CStreaks6.

have fun then playing AIM 9L sidewinder online.

Quite the opposite:
1. In the TT there is no convergence and people do not play all those missiles. Why? Simply because there is a difference e,g, PPCs and ACs still deliver pin point damage on one location whereas a SRM spread covers the whole area.
Sure, your second bolt may hit another location but still you focus more damage on one location. Take a PPC - 10dmg. 5 SRMs would need to hit the same location to do the same damage. That's why PPC are one of the best weapons in 3025



2. SRMs / Clan ACs / LB-X
Why are SRMs, Clan ACs and LB-X hardly used currently and you see only laser spam? Simply because of the instant convergence and huge alphas. The change would make those weapon systems attractive again and support weapon diversity because there would be SOME spread in every weapon type.</p>

Edited by Bush Hopper, 08 April 2015 - 12:18 AM.

[Quxudica]

Alistair Winter, on 20 January 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

It's something I see talked about a lot on the forum. People shaking their heads at the pinpoint convergence of mechs with 60-80 damage alpha strikes, and people who still think ghost heat was a bad solution that ultimately didn't fix the real problem.

Do the majority of players want to get rid of convergence? If you don't know what I'm talking about, convergence is the mech's ability to focus all firepower on the exact same spot, as opposed to firing weapons directly forward and thus hitting different spots depending on how far apart the weapons are mounted. Right now, two torso mounted weapons will hit the same exact spot at any range. If you removed convergence, the torso mounted weapons would fire in parallell trajectories and it would be impossible for a CPLT-K2 with gauss to hit the same Center Torso with both weapons simultaneously, for example.

Is this what the community wants, or is it simply a Vocal Minority™? Or do the majority of players actually prefer the status quo, with perfect convergence? If it's the latter, what is the more popular solution to the MWO arm's race? Is it another look at how heat works? Greater penalties for overheating?

It's an old topic, but people do change their opinions now and again. At least, some of us do. Right now, I'm really not sure what the consensus is, if there is one. Most people only post in the General forum and PGI won't let us have polls here.

It's not about the majority of players, it's about what the game needs. Unless convergence is rendered non pixel perfect universal damage creep is just going to keep forcing this game down a path of arcadey alpha strike centric gameplay, where the only thing that matters when building a mech is dealing as much damage as possible.

Not only does convergence need changed, the heat system needs to be completely redesigned so it's no longer binary.

[KuroNyra]

Dimento Graven, on 07 April 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

Only the bad players want to remove convergence.

I've yet to see a player I would consider "good" actually complain about convergence.

Talking about biased point of view.

There's thousands of players here, some who you could kick there ass, and the next morning they kick YOUR ass.

There's already good players who have complained about the instant-pin-point convergence. And thus since the Closed Beta, but I suppose no. It's not enought for you, because after all.

It was what think ONE guy among a majority YOU consider to be "good" that got the right to speak... Wait, why does it sound completly stupid? Ho yeah! Because it is!





Pin-Point convergence was always a problem in the Mechwarriors games.
Others games had way to make him less of a game breaking stuff. Collision, shock by heavy hit completly moving your aim away and you had to re-aim again. (was an epic thing on MW4)


Something NEED to be done about Pin-Point convergence, from a lore point of view, it's something that could not happen even with the Clan Technology, even they had to wait a few second to let all there weapon being on the target.
The books prooved it countless of time. The rules for the weapons were made because the pin-point convergence wasn't existent in the tabletop games.

But since the very first mechwarrior game, it has been a problem. And yet some blocked guy refuse to see it while it is crystal clear.

Edited by KuroNyra, 08 April 2015 - 12:56 AM.

[Kh0rn]

The whole "bad players want it remove" is bullshit I hold the rank as the top Atlas pilot in MWO and I would like too see a better system added. MWLL does it and does not break the game it adds more skill shooting knowing when too and when too not fire. As far as this game goes this is too arcade like they need too model the combat system from MWLL but I highly doubt it since people like too take the path of least resistance.

[KuroNyra]

Kh0rn, on 08 April 2015 - 01:14 AM, said:

The whole "bad players want it remove" is bullshit I hold the rank as the top Atlas pilot in MWO and I would like too see a better system added. MWLL does it and does not break the game it adds more skill shooting knowing when too and when too not fire. As far as this game goes this is too arcade like they need too model the combat system from MWLL but I highly doubt it since people like too take the path of least resistance.

I think it's more "Bad players want it to stay".