388 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Bigbacon, on 28 January 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

WTH does Nato and the UN have to do with CW and MWO?

Governmental run Police force... Duh!

[CyclonerM]

I still have fun in CW, taking planets is the most important thing for me. Am i doing something wrong?

[Livewyr]

CyclonerM, on 28 January 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

I still have fun in CW, taking planets is the most important thing for me. Am i doing something wrong?

Not really, but I would argue that you could have *more* fun (that lasts longer) with a better designed/implemented community warfare model.

[Apnu]

Tarogato, on 26 January 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Teamwork is OP, not the TDR-9S. That Thunderbolt build does one thing well: long range snipe. Sure, it can actually brawl, but it's not kitted out explicitly for that, so you have to understand that it is easy to counter by playing to its weaknesses.

Indeed. I hated the TDR-9S pre-quirk and sold it. When it went on sale I bought one because everybody was yapping about how OP it is in CW. I took it to the pub queue with the 3xERPPC build to get the basics done on it and its not that great in that environment.

Pub queue maps don't have the sight-lines as the CW maps and using the ERPPC effectively, and its easy to get made by an enemy wolf pack and surrounded.

Its a good build, but not that great for pub play. Better than what I tried before with it. Switched to LPLs for the pub que and its much more brawly and stays cooler longer.

Livewyr, on 28 January 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Not really, but I would argue that you could have *more* fun (that lasts longer) with a better designed/implemented community warfare model.

Roger that. CW is an inch deep right now. Ugh. I want it deep and wide. I keep hoping that PGI will wrap up much of pub play into CW. Would be awesome and include more people. Let Invasion mode be for the hardcore groups but let more causal Assault and Skirmish matches matter beyond c-bill grinding and MXP grinding.

[Tarogato]

Apnu, on 28 January 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Switched to LPLs for the pub que and its much more brawly and stays cooler longer.

Hope you're using the 9SE variant for that build, it has pretty nice LPL quirks.

I build mine with 3x LPL and 2x ML. XL300 with an optional BAP. My win/lose with it is 1.87 and the k/d is 2.81. Highly underrated variant, highly suggest trying it in the pub/solo grind. =]

[Joseph Mallan]

Marack Drock, on 28 January 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

I don't know. But someone said UN so I had to go off cause I think the UN is 100% useless. Also CW is awesome now. I love it.

What do you think the Star League Defense Force was? They were the UN security force in CBT.

[KahnWongFuChung]

I see your point I am also a returning player to MWO from closed beta for the past 2 days I do cadet bonus 9,000,000 Cbill and change I buy 2 mechs on sale griffons all is good.Then I start to play no bonus to buy #3 griffon to level to master mech and buy good armor and weapons.I find I do battles and get almost nothing Cbill and XP lower and gxp lower.

I understand there was going to be lower reward but not so bad it took me 9 hours game play to buy 1- 4 million Cbill mech and I not buy 1 upgrade for any mechs yet.I find this needs fix.I ask please other players give me Cbill and they mostly tell me to fuckk-off and die not explain why they could not give me cbills and help.

After many tries I get to play CW I was very fun even though we were stomped 3 times in a row by 12 man team on first wave of play.After 3 times i say to other team why you just run in and ruin game in 2 minutes of game play and not make it fun? They start to be mad at me for even talking to them and tell m to fuckk-off also.

So to Russ & PGI staff I would like to say I like MWO very much mechs are so good looking and maps are very nice the mechs need more armor they are to weak need fix.Also you need to fix rewards (Cbill and xp-gxp) so I can upgrade my mechs a little faster.Also you need to segregate the CW like solo matchmaker is let the groups 2v2-12v12 play there own CW and solo games and let all the rest of us players enjoy your wonderful game and have some fun.

P.S also some players say they would help me and give me some Cbills and mechs but there is no gift exchange or trade exchange to do it this needs to be fixed so others can help new players if they choose to.
Also a PVE mission would be good too

[Apnu]

Tarogato, on 28 January 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Hope you're using the 9SE variant for that build, it has pretty nice LPL quirks.

I build mine with 3x LPL and 2x ML. XL300 with an optional BAP. My win/lose with it is 1.87 and the k/d is 2.81. Highly underrated variant, highly suggest trying it in the pub/solo grind. =]

TDR-9SE does, but I sold mine ages ago. However the TDR-9S's energy quirks make any energy weapon awesome. Sure, its not maxing quirk potential with ERPPCs, but I'll take a 25% heat reduction, 12.5% cool down reduction and 15% duration reduction any day!

I put in the LPLs because they have the same weight as the PPC so I didn't have to muck about with my build much, just swapped them and took it for a spin. Surprisingly it works very well.

[Ax2Grind]

Livewyr, on 28 January 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

Talk is extremely cheap when you can do absolutely nothing to back it up.




In real world politics, if negotiations fail- warfare ensues (also, negotiations involve some action either side can take to press or encourage the other side...) In MWO community warfare, if negotiations (talking) fails... you do some feet stamping and maybe talk a little trash...you might even apologize to the other faction, but there is nothing you can do to that unit. Nothing to put them in their place. If they want to screw over your faction all day long, they can. You can do nothing to either effectively stem them, or offer any incentive to stop.

Your unit, and every other unit in your faction (and others' factions) are toothless. (In fact, now with Faction grouping.. there is very little reason to be in a unit- you could do the same thing with just a group of friends.)



Unit diplomacy is a farce. Nobody has to give a damned what your unit or faction thinks.

If players shouldn't have an effect on faction diplomacy in community warfare- who should? PGI? Is this community warfare or that other queue with a nifty game mode and a RP flavor?

I wonder if you understand how negotiations and warfare work.
(I considered using actual examples from the real world current events, but I'd rather avoid a World Politics discussion.)
Can you point to me a warfare/diplomacy scenario in history with negotiations.. where the extent of negotiations have been "you shouldn't do that, you should be fighting X" or "come fight Y with us" without any pressure or incentive?



There was no avocation of breaking CoC (I left choice up to potential group-mates.) That is purely for the purpose of screwing everyone's ""diplomacy"" in turn, without them being able to do anything about it.

I would relish anyone coming to my TS to talk to me about why I shouldn't do that...where I could literally laugh the entire time... and go about my business knowing my group is untouchable.

Units, at present, are pointless. (Faction grouping put the final nail in that coffin.)

With respect, your argument holds no water. What you seem to be asking for is a way to control and limit others people's gaming in order to fit your vision of how the game should be played. What possible "repercussions" could be put into place that you think would make it better than what we currently have, that doesn't arbitrarily mean some players controlling how others play the game?

And in terms of incentive, the current incentive is shared goals. Some of us engage in unit diplomacy to great effect, and we have shared goals and we see those goals realized (our reward for the actions we have taken). I would guess you are just not engaging in that format.

Keep in mind, I am all for in-game diplomatic setting that individual units and players can select that effect themselves. But as soon as you think you get to decide which attack lanes I can use, you can f*#k off.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 28 January 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Livewyr]

Ax2Grind, on 28 January 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

With respect, your argument holds no water. What you seem to be asking for is a way to control and limit others people's gaming in order to fit your vision of how the game should be played.

I am not talking about a hard counter to their in-game maneuvers. Hard counters are a horrid concept.
If they want an attack lane that I do not want them to use (such as through my territory) they would have to either negotiate a way to access it... or take it by force.

Ax2Grind, on 28 January 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

What possible "repercussions" could be put into place that you think would make it better than what we currently have, that doesn't arbitrarily mean some players controlling how others play the game?

Where do you get the idea of controlling how players play the game?

(Which incidentally.. is precisely how this current mode works: Want to take a certain world? Well.. I hope the algorithm pathing takes you there...)

Ax2Grind, on 28 January 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

And in terms of incentive, the current incentive is shared goals. Some of us engage in unit diplomacy to great effect, and we have shared goals and we see those goals realized (our reward for the actions we have taken). I would guess you are just not engaging in that format.

For me, negotiations are a non-issue. People will attack where they want, whether you like it or not. You can try and convince them otherwise.. but they have absolutely no reason to even entertain you. They only have certain attack avenues regardless of what you talk about.

Ax2Grind, on 28 January 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Keep in mind, I am all for in-game diplomatic setting that individual units and players can select that effect themselves. But as soon as you think you get to decide which attack lanes I can use, you can f*#k off.

Diplo setting? You still seem to have this hardcode in mind... The only hardcode: Everyone (unit) is attack-able. If you don't want to attack them or be attacked? Player Diplomacy.

With what I am talking about.. there is no hardcode. If I want to stop you from using an attack lane.. I would attack/stop you.. and you would have to MAKE me "f*#k off."

[Das Grab]

Livewyr, on 28 January 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

Diplo setting? You still seem to have this hardcode in mind... The only hardcode: Everyone (unit) is attack-able. If you don't want to attack them or be attacked? Player Diplomacy.

This is the problem diplomacy never worked. That why this is called diplomacy with a sword. Yes everyone is attackable (I know I wrote it wrong, but sounded right) and everyone can defend.
The problem I see with the clan warriors is they see the TDR-9S's with its PPC quirks as its OP. OK some of the clans players.
Shell we start looking at the clan mechs with their quicks or lack of.......

thats right clanners what about your mechs that can be LRM mechs, or Laser mechs, or SSRM mechs. That is the Timber wolf.

Edited by Das Grab, 29 January 2015 - 04:06 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ax2Grind, on 28 January 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Keep in mind, I am all for in-game diplomatic setting that individual units and players can select that effect themselves. But as soon as you think you get to decide which attack lanes I can use, you can f*#k off.

A question. Are you the CO of "The Forsaken Few"? As a Member of Murphy's Law, I have to go where DocBach or another CO chooses. IF I am drop command then I can chose where we fight. Otherwise... I either go where the group leader chooses or bow out of the group for the drop.

[Telmasa]

CW has become an organized, competitive, bulls---ting contest.

It's not mechwarrior anymore. It's Gimmickwarrior.

Unfortunately until PGI gets around to achieving ideal game balance (including mechs [especially fixing the ramifications of the Quirkening], consumables, map design, spawns, and so on), this is going to remain the state of affairs with CW.

Now, while I am grumbling here, that isn't to say CW isn't still fun, and that's not to say that players are necessarily in the wrong (though ignoring objectives in order to spawncamp is still a douche move, in my biased personal view); just recognize the real cause of the symptoms here.

Rather than all this ranting and postulation and whatnot...we need to sit, be patient, and let PGI keep working on things.

Have to remember, PGi has only just started, since last August, to reinflate previously punctured balloons. So far, they're doing great, but don't expect a full-on party quite yet. Else, you'll just end up short-tempered and angry - I would know.

[Livewyr]

Telmasa, on 29 January 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

Rather than all this ranting and postulation and whatnot...we need to sit, be patient, and let PGI keep working on things.

Here is the problem with that philosophy:
We let PGI sit and work on IS/IS balance.. PPC Stalkers... then Ghost Heat.
We let PGI sit and work on IS/Clan balance.. Quirked ERPPC Spam TDRs. (And more restrictive ghost heat)
We let PGI sit and work on ECM.. (good lord... it's still feast or famine) Not that we had a whole lot of choice.. it's someone's baby.
We let PGI sit and work on UI2- Clickwarrior online.
Leaving PGI to work on their current track with CW... will kill it. Other than the nifty puretech dropship game mode (which we could have in regular pub matches with a matter of a simple Queue/MM code change..they've already done pure-tech several times...) what is different, or "community," about community warfare?

I grab my group of 12.. click on a random (algorithm selected) planet.. fight a random group of pugs or group(s) for half an hour or less... and after that? It might as well have not happened.
We don't even need the map.. it's not as though you can select which direction you want to go.. you select one of the planets offered to you with the only choice being which faction you want to fight. (And if you chose the opposite "force" you may not even be fighting that faction...)

An elaborate pretty looking structure built on a crumbling foundation in a swamp is only going to last so long.
So it is with the current MWO Community Warfare.

Edited by Livewyr, 29 January 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Livewyr, on 29 January 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Here is the problem with that philosophy:
We let PGI sit and work on IS/IS balance.. PPC Stalkers... then Ghost Heat.
We let PGI sit and work on IS/Clan balance.. Quirked ERPPC Spam TDRs. (And more restrictive ghost heat)
We let PGI sit and work on ECM.. (good lord... it's still feast or famine) Not that we had a whole lot of choice.. it's someone's baby.
We let PGI sit and work on UI2- Clickwarrior online.
Leaving PGI to work on their current track with CW... will kill it. Other than the nifty puretech dropship game mode (which we could have in regular pub matches with a matter of a simple Queue/MM code change..they've already done pure-tech several times...) what is different, or "community," about community warfare?

I grab my group of 12.. click on a random (algorithm selected) planet.. fight a random group of pugs or group(s) for half an hour or less... and after that? It might as well have not happened.
We don't even need the map.. it's not as though you can select which direction you want to go.. you select one of the planets offered to you with the only choice being which faction you want to fight. (And if you chose the opposite "force" you may not even be fighting that faction...)

An elaborate pretty looking structure built on a crumbling foundation in a swamp is only going to last so long.
So it is with the current MWO Community Warfare.

PPC Stalkers PLAYER made
Ghost Heat=PGI forced to do something about it!
Quirked PPC=ONE mech able to stand against the three Clan Favorites.
We Complained about LRMs till PGI gave us ECM
now we complain cause we have to LOOK for enemy Mechs with our eyes.

PGI has tried and tried to deal with player demands and look what that got us!

[Livewyr]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

PPC Stalkers PLAYER made (When they nuked the heat on PPCs...)
Ghost Heat=PGI forced to do something about it! (Pretending that was their only option...now we're stuck with the concept as their "magic bullet")
Quirked PPC=ONE mech able to stand against the three Clan Favorites. (It's not the only one, it's just the most notably broken...Clans only have 12 chassis.. how many do the IS have?)
We Complained about LRMs till PGI gave us ECM (Again, as if that was their only option, instead of the literally dozens or hundreds of better solutions...)
now we complain cause we have to LOOK for enemy Mechs with our eyes. (Yeah, wonder what they're going to do with "Stealth Armor" ...which is far more expensive in heat and size than the Jesus Box)

PGI has tried and tried to deal with player demands and look what that got us!

PGI deals with player demands.. with ham-handed hard counters.

It's Lazy.

[Daiichidoku]

czech your mail, lazy, or get on your ts

[C E Dwyer]

Grimwill, on 26 January 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

It is pretty bad. I created an alt account for beta testing cause I want to see what CW is like for new players. With my trial mechs I lose 90% of the time , the rate is higher against premade 12 mans. I make only 30000 c bills a match. New players have no incentive to stick around with the pug stomping and long waits for matches. And we all know games that can't attract new players end up dying , just look at Star Wars the old republic as an example

hmm strange example as I and my daughter played today, its hardly dead, or on life support, its alot healthier than here, as it happens, what it does suffer from is being part of the EA stable

[Livewyr]

Daiichidoku, on 29 January 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

czech your mail, lazy, or get on your ts

Maybe you should be on the TS... when you are on it..

[Joseph Mallan]

Livewyr, on 29 January 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

PGI deals with player demands.. with ham-handed hard counters.

It's Lazy.

Sometimes children need to see the errs of their ways before things can work properly.