144 replies to this topic

[BourbonFaucet]

Metus regem, on 27 January 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Like I said, I would take the reseens over not having them, but please, could we use this:

-pic-

For the base art work for the Warhammer?

Yes, I much prefer that top Warhammer. If you need to make it any less macross-y, turn the missile box on its side.

[Metus regem]

Techorse, on 27 January 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

Yes, I much prefer that top Warhammer. If you need to make it any less macross-y, turn the missile box on its side.

I'd go for a more of a V.L.S. (Vertical Launch System) look, if it were up to me, but yes, the IIC looks a lot better than the IS version.

[BourbonFaucet]

Metus regem, on 27 January 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

I'd go for a more of a V.L.S. (Vertical Launch System) look, if it were up to me, but yes, the IIC looks a lot better than the IS version.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think PGI may have said that standard 'mechs for the clans likely won't happen, so there's no harm in using IIC's for redesigning purposes.

[Mike Forst]

In my personal opinion as a Mechwarrior fan: if the mech has to look significantly different than the original and have a different name to hide it from the license holders then it's not the original mech in any way. In that case, there's really not much point in spending all this effort on these designs when there are plenty of other ones that can be brought to life without these issues (especially if the license holder gets wise and tries to make a stink about it anyways).

If a deal can be struck in the future, then great. If not, it's best to leave the HG Unseen where they are: as fond memories.

[Apnu]

How about the Grand Dragon?!

We already have the Dragon model for the game. Just need a fresh skin, colors and new hard points. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Grand_Dragon

Slam dunk.

[Metus regem]

Techorse, on 27 January 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think PGI may have said that standard 'mechs for the clans likely won't happen, so there's no harm in using IIC's for redesigning purposes.

As mush as I would love to have Clan Battlemechs, I know what kind of balance terror they would be, and I understand PGI being hesitant to put their feet in those waters...

That being said, I used the Warhammer IIC as an example of a better looking version to work from, and one I'm sure that most old guard, like myself could get behind.

[Apnu]

Mike Forst, on 27 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

In my personal opinion as a Mechwarrior fan: if the mech has to look significantly different than the original and have a different name to hide it from the license holders then it's not the original mech in any way. In that case, there's really not much point in spending all this effort on these designs when there are plenty of other ones that can be brought to life without these issues (especially if the license holder gets wise and tries to make a stink about it anyways).

If a deal can be struck in the future, then great. If not, it's best to leave the HG Unseen where they are: as fond memories.

As far as I understand the HG issue, they don't own the name "Marauder" but are aware of it and will pounce if they see it. Their presumed IP (there's some possibility the Japanese holder of the IP lease might not actually own that IP now) is for the image of the mech, not the name or what's in it or the BT lore surrounding it.

So the main crux of you point is right, the mech would have to be sufficiently different looking so that any HG legal action would hold no water and be a fruitless waste of time.

So my point is, you can make any 75 ton mech with a STD 300 engine and 2xPPC, 2xML, AC5, call it a Marauder, but look anything you like.

Randal Bill's Project Phoenix appears to have skirted the issue, with redesigned mechs, which did annoy some players because they didn't look like Macross designs. Well forget those guys. My point is, its probably do-able legally.

Here's a link to a MAD-5R from that TRO: http://www.sarna.net...5r_marauder.png

And I'll state this right now: I will buy a mech pack featuring Project Phoenix redesigns of Unseen mechs. I'll proudly buy that from PGI.

[LordSkippy]

Apnu, on 27 January 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

As far as I understand the HG issue, they don't own the name "Marauder" but are aware of it and will pounce if they see it. Their presumed IP (there's some possibility the Japanese holder of the IP lease might not actually own that IP now) is for the image of the mech, not the name or what's in it or the BT lore surrounding it.
7
So the main crux of you point is right, the mech would have to be sufficiently different looking so that any HG legal action would hold no water and be a fruitless waste of time.

So my point is, you can make any 75 ton mech with a STD 300 engine and 2xPPC, 2xML, AC5, call it a Marauder, but look anything you like.

Randal Bill's Project Phoenix appears to have skirted the issue, with redesigned mechs, which did annoy some players because they didn't look like Macross designs. Well forget those guys. My point is, its probably do-able legally.

Here's a link to a MAD-5R from that TRO: http://www.sarna.net...5r_marauder.png

And I'll state this right now: I will buy a mech pack featuring Project Phoenix redesigns of Unseen mechs. I'll proudly buy that from PGI.

Only question is if PGI has the resources to fight an annoyance lawsuit from HG? Unfortunately, HG can still file a lawsuit and pay lawyers to drag it out as long as possible, even if it is baseless.

[Bront]

Apnu, on 27 January 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

How about the Grand Dragon?!

We already have the Dragon model for the game. Just need a fresh skin, colors and new hard points. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Grand_Dragon

Slam dunk.

FYI, the Grand Dragon has the same DGN designation as the dragon, so they could simply release them as Dragon Variants.

[Davers]

Jonny Slam, on 26 January 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

NOTHING IS PREVENTING PGI FROM USING THE MARAUDER OR ANY OTHER MECH DESIGN. IF PGI WANTS TO USE THEM THERE IS A WELL ESTABLISHED, REPEATEDLY USED, CURRENTLY VIABLE OPTION FOR PGI TO SECURE THE RIGHTS AND USE THEM. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE SINCE 2008, ALL STAKE-OWNERS IN BATTLETECH AND THE ATTENDING ANCILLARY MATERIALS ARE WILLING AND EAGER TO REALIZE REVENUE FROM THE ASSORTED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES.


With this additional note that has been touched on by some, "it's about money" Yeah? that's right and because it is "about money" Harmony Gold and all the other stake-holders are eager, I repeat eager to get the intellectual properties in front of eyeballs and making money. H.G. and the other stake-holders know that PGI is a vehicle for revenue, they are not resistant to that in any way. The early drama PGI got hit with was a response (understanable) to PGI and assorted parties rolling out the content of that initial trailer and press kits, without first going through the simple, straightforward, established path to consent of use, for whatever reason they choose to proceed that way. That incident did not moot or preclude any future consent of use, in fact as is abundantly clear H.G. and the other stake-holders in the intellectual properties are eager to have them in use creating revenue, as opposed to sitting on them as so many ill-informed wing-nut conspiracy fans constantly bleat.

If you have some secret knowledge that would allow PGI to literally print money by releasing the Unseen you should share it with them. maybe get a Hero mech named after you.

Mike Forst, on 27 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

In my personal opinion as a Mechwarrior fan: if the mech has to look significantly different than the original and have a different name to hide it from the license holders then it's not the original mech in any way. In that case, there's really not much point in spending all this effort on these designs when there are plenty of other ones that can be brought to life without these issues (especially if the license holder gets wise and tries to make a stink about it anyways).

If a deal can be struck in the future, then great. If not, it's best to leave the HG Unseen where they are: as fond memories.

Yup.

[Blood Rose]

Mike Forst, on 27 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

In my personal opinion as a Mechwarrior fan: if the mech has to look significantly different than the original and have a different name to hide it from the license holders then it's not the original mech in any way. In that case, there's really not much point in spending all this effort on these designs when there are plenty of other ones that can be brought to life without these issues (especially if the license holder gets wise and tries to make a stink about it anyways).

If a deal can be struck in the future, then great. If not, it's best to leave the HG Unseen where they are: as fond memories.

But the name 'Marauder' is not owned anyway.

So you can use it. Besides, the Unseen Marauder looks far better than the Unseen.

[Brody319]

I'd rather they show up under different names and reseen designs, then not show up at all. plus if later HG says they can sell the real unseens with their original designs, you can call them by their proper names, and add them without harming anything.

[Gallowglas]

LordKnightFandragon, on 26 January 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

the Wizkids Marauder? If PGI redid that mech to look better......I thought that mech was hideous, alongside the Warhammer from Wizkids....

Burn the heretic! Burn!

Mike Forst, on 27 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

In my personal opinion as a Mechwarrior fan: if the mech has to look significantly different than the original and have a different name to hide it from the license holders then it's not the original mech in any way. In that case, there's really not much point in spending all this effort on these designs when there are plenty of other ones that can be brought to life without these issues (especially if the license holder gets wise and tries to make a stink about it anyways).

If a deal can be struck in the future, then great. If not, it's best to leave the HG Unseen where they are: as fond memories.

Mike, has there been any discussion with HG about a licensing deal? Would such a thing be possible?

[Asakara]

Gallowglas, on 27 January 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

...

Mike, has there been any discussion with HG about a licensing deal? Would such a thing be possible?

How do we know that HG has the right to sell the art in the first place?

Since a Japanese court ruling in 2006 there are 2 parties that own the rights to the "Unseen" art:

Tatsunoko (in Japan, and hence Harmony Gold outside of Japan) has the exclusive right to distribute and merchandise the Macross show that’s been made already and all elements within it.

Big West and Studio Nue have the exclusive right to make new derivative works based on those elements.

Now, if the art was considered an element of the Macross series then it would be Tatsunoko who PGI would go to to secure rights. If the art was considered a new derivative work then PGI would go to Big West and Studio Nue.

Of course we do not know if the "Unseen" art in Battletech would be considered a new derivative work or not.

[Mike Forst]

Gallowglas, on 27 January 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Burn the heretic! Burn! Mike, has there been any discussion with HG about a licensing deal? Would such a thing be possible?

I'm probably the last person in the office who would know if any discussions have taken place.

[Bishop Steiner]

Asakara, on 27 January 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

How do we know that HG has the right to sell the art in the first place?

Since a Japanese court ruling in 2006 there are 2 parties that own the rights to the "Unseen" art:

Tatsunoko (in Japan, and hence Harmony Gold outside of Japan) has the exclusive right to distribute and merchandise the Macross show that’s been made already and all elements within it.

Big West and Studio Nue have the exclusive right to make new derivative works based on those elements.

Now, if the art was considered an element of the Macross series then it would be Tatsunoko who PGI would go to to secure rights. If the art was considered a new derivative work then PGI would go to Big West and Studio Nue.

Of course we do not know if the "Unseen" art in Battletech would be considered a new derivative work or not.

Multi-national courts. I believe in the USA, at least, the decision currently stands in favor of HG. Thus, while it may be possible to release the stuff elsewhere (not feeling like looking up the specifics atm) those items at the least would not be available to players in the USA. Which on a global PvP game, I would imagine is it's own set of nightmares, legally.



I'm part of the minority who would be happy if Alex just redid this. Then no talk of "replacements".

Problem is, I know I'm in the minority who like the reseen Marauder betters. (And Tbolt. And Warhammer IIC The rest? Not so much. And the reseen Warhammer needs to burn in a fire)

[BourbonFaucet]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 January 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

I'm part of the minority who would be happy if Alex just redid this. Then no talk of "replacements".

Problem is, I know I'm in the minority who like the reseen Marauder betters. (And Tbolt. And Warhammer IIC The rest? Not so much. And the reseen Warhammer needs to burn in a fire)

Not brownosing or anything, but your Marauder redesign is one of my favorites! (Other one is shimmering swords')

[Bishop Steiner]

Techorse, on 27 January 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Not brownosing or anything, but your Marauder redesign is one of my favorites! (Other one is shimmering swords')

Yeah. Thanks man (Which one though..I think i did like..... 4 or 5, lol) . Still feel Shim's just "feels" more like a Marauder II.... there is something very heavy to his interpretation, vs the insectoid feel of the original.

Just my 2ct though.

[BourbonFaucet]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 January 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

Yeah. Thanks man (Which one though..I think i did like..... 4 or 5, lol) . Still feel Shim's just "feels" more like a Marauder II.... there is something very heavy to his interpretation, vs the insectoid feel of the original.

Just my 2ct though.

The one you just posted above, silly.

Also, Shim's may feel more like the Marauder II, but at the same time, it seems like his art would be harder to sneak by HG. Not sure though. Copyright laws are messed up and need reform as it is.

[Bishop Steiner]

Techorse, on 27 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

The one you just posted above, silly.

Also, Shim's may feel more like the Marauder II, but at the same time, it seems like his art would be harder to sneak by HG. Not sure though. Copyright laws are messed up and need reform as it is.

that's for dang sure, too much of the visual laws are subjective. I mean the criteria is impossible to fully enforce.

Also, not really my redesign, so much as my redesign of the REeseen redesign, that I liked jsut thought had silly proportions.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 January 2015 - 12:27 PM.