Let's talk about wasting time. I'd call it a big chunk of this thread honestly.
If I'm dead and the odds of a comeback is slim because it's 1-10 against my team, I do the following:
Quit the match.
Go to my Mechlab
Select another mech that I haven't run today.
Hit Go.
OMG. So easy. My 'valuable' time isn't wasted other than the craptastic matchmaker.
The guy who had a DC and never comes back sucks.
The guy who hides in some random location sucks.
All chat sucks. I turned it off forever ago and will never turn it back on.
The suicider is just embarrassing.
The players who are being whiny because they aren't getting instant gratification: I have nothing positive or constructive to say to you.
I can control very little of that. I can control me and when my team or I derp and it's a wash, come up with a new plan. It's not difficult really.
11
Stop Reporting The Last Man Standing
Started by Raggedyman, Feb 01 2015 01:00 AM
717 replies to this topic
#102
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- The Ironclad
- 1,099 posts
Member
- LocationUSA
Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:03 AM
Vassago Rain, on 01 February 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:
No one tolerates having their time wasted.
I'm pretty sure 99.99% of players has a smartphone or a tablet in close proximity. There is always something to do while you wait.
#103
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- Mercenary
- 4,763 posts
Member
- LocationAurora, Indiana, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:23 AM
Team treason is a reportable offense.
If the last player alive on a side has participated in good faith, then relaying his position to the enemy is team treason and can get you banned.
If the last player alive on a side is disconnected, or is afk without a scratch on him, then you may be able to get away with telling the enemy where he is, but you do so at your own risk. This is especially problematic now that reconnecting is a thing. I'd hate to have my client crash and rejoin only to find that my team has told the enemy where my mech was, preventing me from being able to act.
In general, then, don't be a team traitor. If you want the match to end, then disconnect and drop in a different mech. The only thing keeping you in the game is yourself.
And don't say that then you won't have your modules. You can do a single drop without your modules, or with different modules. It's one drop. Chill out and play. Or, if you absolutely insist, then maybe read the forums or a book or something for five minutes or whatever.
If the last player alive on a side has participated in good faith, then relaying his position to the enemy is team treason and can get you banned.
If the last player alive on a side is disconnected, or is afk without a scratch on him, then you may be able to get away with telling the enemy where he is, but you do so at your own risk. This is especially problematic now that reconnecting is a thing. I'd hate to have my client crash and rejoin only to find that my team has told the enemy where my mech was, preventing me from being able to act.
In general, then, don't be a team traitor. If you want the match to end, then disconnect and drop in a different mech. The only thing keeping you in the game is yourself.
And don't say that then you won't have your modules. You can do a single drop without your modules, or with different modules. It's one drop. Chill out and play. Or, if you absolutely insist, then maybe read the forums or a book or something for five minutes or whatever.
Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 12 February 2015 - 05:05 PM.
#104
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- Liquid Metal
- 851 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:45 AM
Unfortunately, there is a lot of grey area in this thread, and what it really boils down to is the difference between following the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law.
1. If your team has already lost (and yes, most of us can tell when that is), and you run and hide with no intent to fight, but have previously fought during the match, then technically you are within your rights to do so. However, I think that most people would argue that this is not the spirit in which the rules were written, nor the intent of the rules to encourage such behavior.
2. If your teammate is hiding and you call out his location, that violates the rules, if not the spirit of the rules, again. If reported, it would be very hard to prove that the hiding teammate had no intention of fighting, and thus, you're likely to get in trouble if reported.
3. If your team is losing (or has lost) and you continue to fight, even if that means briefly hiding, then that is what the rules were really (IMO) made to support. However, what you are likely to notice is that generally no one will have a problem with this in game. The problems begin when players start leaning toward the previously mentioned extremes.
If someone reports you, then you have more than likely done something you should not have, and if it bothers you, then perhaps you realize on some level that, while technically you haven't broken any rules, you really weren't playing the game the way it is meant to be played.
All that being said, there apparently are a lot of people who never learned that no one likes a "tattle-tale", and it's usually just better to mind your own business and to not let the little things like all of this bother you.
1. If your team has already lost (and yes, most of us can tell when that is), and you run and hide with no intent to fight, but have previously fought during the match, then technically you are within your rights to do so. However, I think that most people would argue that this is not the spirit in which the rules were written, nor the intent of the rules to encourage such behavior.
2. If your teammate is hiding and you call out his location, that violates the rules, if not the spirit of the rules, again. If reported, it would be very hard to prove that the hiding teammate had no intention of fighting, and thus, you're likely to get in trouble if reported.
3. If your team is losing (or has lost) and you continue to fight, even if that means briefly hiding, then that is what the rules were really (IMO) made to support. However, what you are likely to notice is that generally no one will have a problem with this in game. The problems begin when players start leaning toward the previously mentioned extremes.
If someone reports you, then you have more than likely done something you should not have, and if it bothers you, then perhaps you realize on some level that, while technically you haven't broken any rules, you really weren't playing the game the way it is meant to be played.
All that being said, there apparently are a lot of people who never learned that no one likes a "tattle-tale", and it's usually just better to mind your own business and to not let the little things like all of this bother you.
#105
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- 2,263 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 12:13 PM
1) Not participating in core game mechanics - bannable behavior according to game rules
2) Hiding in a place, other players can't get to (like on HPG walls) = exploiting and abusing vulnerabilities in game mechanics to get personal profit - also bannable
2) Hiding in a place, other players can't get to (like on HPG walls) = exploiting and abusing vulnerabilities in game mechanics to get personal profit - also bannable
Edited by MrMadguy, 01 February 2015 - 12:17 PM.
#106
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- Bad Company
- 3,403 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 12:22 PM
Praehotec8, on 01 February 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:
All that being said, there apparently are a lot of people who never learned that no one likes a "tattle-tale", and it's usually just better to mind your own business and to not let the little things like all of this bother you.
History books would disagree, although argument appears to hinge on everyone else being limited to a kindergarten education.
#107
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- The Raider
- 1,661 posts
Member
- LocationSacramento area, California
Posted 01 February 2015 - 12:27 PM
When I am last guy or notice I am about to be last guy left, I often try to get away from the main enemy group. My goal is to try to take one mech with me. If I have to run around hiding and reading radar display looking for a damaged enemy I will.
Unless I am in something slow, the I just march to my death.
Unless I am in something slow, the I just march to my death.
#108
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- FP Veteran - Beta 1
- 1,876 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 12:29 PM
Agent 0 Fortune, on 01 February 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:
hinge on everyone else being limited to a kindergarten education.
Pretty much helps if you play pugs
#109
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- Philanthropist
- 1,036 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 12:55 PM
Many words spend, I'll say that if the last man hiding is an issue and we don't like suicides, then there are several options to ask from PGI (and some of the things were mentioned earlier):
1. Introduce 'Ejection' or any other honorable surrender option without getting killed (many see their K/D ratio as thier holy grail) which is avalable
1a immediately at match start
1b after 10 minutes in battle
1c after one (two, three, four) active allies stand
1b after opposing team leader offers one (some role play and mb reward in system)
2. Present matches with different rules like
2a Only 10 (7, 5 etc.) kills to win, not the whole opposint team
2b Team resuced to 20% (15, 10, ) or total tonnage (protect your ass..aults)
2c First blood: first mech downed end the match or enemy lost one whole lance or alike
2d ... many other options (see RTS variety winning conditions)
3. Set timer to 1 minute left when a single mech was left on the team
3a prolonged with demage dealt to enemy mech.
3b set rigitly
3c make remaining mech visible on map
Anyway, reporting is... somewhat not good. I've participated in 5-0 comeback and suffered from 7-0 reversal, not to be sure when the match is lost until the end screen shows up. So instead of discussing 'treasons' suggest your opions to solve problem that leads to such treasons. For the simpliest solution to that is to switch off spectating.
1. Introduce 'Ejection' or any other honorable surrender option without getting killed (many see their K/D ratio as thier holy grail) which is avalable
1a immediately at match start
1b after 10 minutes in battle
1c after one (two, three, four) active allies stand
1b after opposing team leader offers one (some role play and mb reward in system)
2. Present matches with different rules like
2a Only 10 (7, 5 etc.) kills to win, not the whole opposint team
2b Team resuced to 20% (15, 10, ) or total tonnage (protect your ass..aults)
2c First blood: first mech downed end the match or enemy lost one whole lance or alike
2d ... many other options (see RTS variety winning conditions)
3. Set timer to 1 minute left when a single mech was left on the team
3a prolonged with demage dealt to enemy mech.
3b set rigitly
3c make remaining mech visible on map
Anyway, reporting is... somewhat not good. I've participated in 5-0 comeback and suffered from 7-0 reversal, not to be sure when the match is lost until the end screen shows up. So instead of discussing 'treasons' suggest your opions to solve problem that leads to such treasons. For the simpliest solution to that is to switch off spectating.
#110
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- 242 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 12:58 PM
So, my understanding is that the supporters of this are saying-Guy is with the team on a map like therma, alpine(Lots repetition and couch commandering done on these maps). He gets a snap shot off at some mechs then tells the people to move to the center or go up the hill. People don't do what he says, he gets pissed, calls them losers after the first 3 die, walks to a secluded area and proceeds to shut down.
This happens all of the time, in fact most out of bounds, overheat, shutdown guys are these players. They aren't the last one left because they were the lucky one, they are the last ones left because they left no other option. In fact those are the majority of people in solo drops that I see shut down-The "I told you so, listen to me" guys that are intentionally just trying to prove a point.
It just seems odd to me, even under different circumstances, that people support gameplay that is heaped on other players simply because of their preference to spite their team or the other team. How is intentionally trying to piss off either team by shutting down anywhere near the spirit of the game? People say get another mech, I say I worked for or payed for that mech and its the one I want to play, so it is frustrating when someone is just trying to annoy other people by shutting down.
So, once again, its ok for a person to spite 23 other players because he left no other course then him being the last one alive, when he shut down in response to people not conforming to his play style. But, as long as he did 1 damage, he has the right to do so, without someone reporting him? I have seen guys that shut down that have a plan, and they usually tell the team.
You can tell what guys do it to spite the team, because they face a wall or something else. Their point is not to see enemies pass or spread the enemy out, its simply to stop their team from telling where they are. If you were playing for the team, you wouldn't mind the team knowing where you were. If you were trying to ambush someone, you would not shut down with no sight on anything but a wall. That is simply done out of spite. You made an effort to find a place that the enemy would have a hard time finding you and made an effort that no one would know where you were.
That is just as bad gameplay as the guy that tells you to "die already, you are wasting our time" when you are running trying to fight, then gives away your location.
This happens all of the time, in fact most out of bounds, overheat, shutdown guys are these players. They aren't the last one left because they were the lucky one, they are the last ones left because they left no other option. In fact those are the majority of people in solo drops that I see shut down-The "I told you so, listen to me" guys that are intentionally just trying to prove a point.
It just seems odd to me, even under different circumstances, that people support gameplay that is heaped on other players simply because of their preference to spite their team or the other team. How is intentionally trying to piss off either team by shutting down anywhere near the spirit of the game? People say get another mech, I say I worked for or payed for that mech and its the one I want to play, so it is frustrating when someone is just trying to annoy other people by shutting down.
So, once again, its ok for a person to spite 23 other players because he left no other course then him being the last one alive, when he shut down in response to people not conforming to his play style. But, as long as he did 1 damage, he has the right to do so, without someone reporting him? I have seen guys that shut down that have a plan, and they usually tell the team.
You can tell what guys do it to spite the team, because they face a wall or something else. Their point is not to see enemies pass or spread the enemy out, its simply to stop their team from telling where they are. If you were playing for the team, you wouldn't mind the team knowing where you were. If you were trying to ambush someone, you would not shut down with no sight on anything but a wall. That is simply done out of spite. You made an effort to find a place that the enemy would have a hard time finding you and made an effort that no one would know where you were.
That is just as bad gameplay as the guy that tells you to "die already, you are wasting our time" when you are running trying to fight, then gives away your location.
#111
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- 2,831 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:01 PM
MrMadguy, on 01 February 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:
1) Not participating in core game mechanics - bannable behavior according to game rules
2) Hiding in a place, other players can't get to (like on HPG walls) = exploiting and abusing vulnerabilities in game mechanics to get personal profit - also bannable
2) Hiding in a place, other players can't get to (like on HPG walls) = exploiting and abusing vulnerabilities in game mechanics to get personal profit - also bannable
HPG walls can be climbed onto by any pilot with half good piloting skill. There are hills on either side that let you shimmy up to them and get on top. They are not considered out of bounds nor bannable as they're we're intended to be used by things like jump jet mechs for a firing position. The entire upper part of the wall is modeled and I wish it was more like the top of those walls around the whole map, as they're really damn cool up there.
#112
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- 110 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:13 PM
"If hiding is not allowed put it into the game mechanics"?
Maybe you have not had time to check out the code of conduct and griefing guidelines...on these forums - right at the top subject thread...
Exploiting / Griefing / Non-Participation
Our definition of Exploiting / Griefing includes:
If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".
Running away from enemies, when you have zero chance to win(i.e. its not Conquest and the player is capping points), just to run out the clock and be a jerk - is no different than hiding and powering down(and usually disconnecting).
I have seen people do this numerous times, and 95% of the time it is griefing and not 'tactical sniping/mad ninja skillz'. The ecm spider jumping on top of walls in HPG or the bog ends the 15 minute fight, after 8-10 minutes of being the last one alive and running for the entire rest of the time - end the match with under 100 damage. If you had less than 10 weapon hits in a 15 min fight - you were not actually participating.
The time to be in the fight is when your allies are still alive. If they had the 'mad skillz' to take on 8 medium/heavy/assault mechs in a light mech with 1-2 weapons - they would have already done something useful while the team was alive. And ending the match with a crappy damage total only shows they were barely even in the fight from the start in the first place, never mind being some super ninja that is going to kill most of the enemy team solo.
And usually in these cases other members of the team start giving out false locations to try and mess with the team still alive. Griefing is griefing. Apparently these players forget that the people they are griefing may very well be their allies in the next match.
So yeah - it is against the code of conduct - and is clearly spelled out(not fighting in a game about fighting seems pretty clear to a rational person) - and complaining about it probably means someone enjoys wasting other players time out of spite.
Maybe you have not had time to check out the code of conduct and griefing guidelines...on these forums - right at the top subject thread...
Exploiting / Griefing / Non-Participation
Our definition of Exploiting / Griefing includes:
- Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.
- Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics.
If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".
Running away from enemies, when you have zero chance to win(i.e. its not Conquest and the player is capping points), just to run out the clock and be a jerk - is no different than hiding and powering down(and usually disconnecting).
I have seen people do this numerous times, and 95% of the time it is griefing and not 'tactical sniping/mad ninja skillz'. The ecm spider jumping on top of walls in HPG or the bog ends the 15 minute fight, after 8-10 minutes of being the last one alive and running for the entire rest of the time - end the match with under 100 damage. If you had less than 10 weapon hits in a 15 min fight - you were not actually participating.
The time to be in the fight is when your allies are still alive. If they had the 'mad skillz' to take on 8 medium/heavy/assault mechs in a light mech with 1-2 weapons - they would have already done something useful while the team was alive. And ending the match with a crappy damage total only shows they were barely even in the fight from the start in the first place, never mind being some super ninja that is going to kill most of the enemy team solo.
And usually in these cases other members of the team start giving out false locations to try and mess with the team still alive. Griefing is griefing. Apparently these players forget that the people they are griefing may very well be their allies in the next match.
So yeah - it is against the code of conduct - and is clearly spelled out(not fighting in a game about fighting seems pretty clear to a rational person) - and complaining about it probably means someone enjoys wasting other players time out of spite.
#113
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- 242 posts
Member
Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:16 PM
MauttyKoray, on 01 February 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:
HPG walls can be climbed onto by any pilot with half good piloting skill. There are hills on either side that let you shimmy up to them and get on top. They are not considered out of bounds nor bannable as they're we're intended to be used by things like jump jet mechs for a firing position. The entire upper part of the wall is modeled and I wish it was more like the top of those walls around the whole map, as they're really damn cool up there.
You are right, that would make a pretty fun map, a with walls like those all over, and at least one level lower and the ground. Or hell, no ground, you fall, you die if you aren't lucky enough to fall on another passage below. Or maybe a map that simulates the outside of a large spaceship or spacestation that the mech can walk in a 360 around like they are magnetically clamped to the hull. Hell, I think that would be fun as a CW map, you goal is to destroy one of the main guns on the huge spacecraft. Then all of the turrets and generators would make some sense. Ah well, off topic.
In my opinion, shutting down is warranted, but not to spite people. If you are a ERLL spider trying to snipe from the walls, or wait for them to come to the base on conquest, by all means. If you are facing the wall, and just shut down to piss everyone off, that's a different story.
#114
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- The Hammer
- 47,187 posts
ForumWarrior
- Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time
Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:18 PM
Tarogato, on 01 February 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:
Heh, I love when people post threads like this when only half of their intended audience will ever log into the forums at all.
But seriously, if any of you ever see me personally shutdown/hide at the end of the match, I assure you it's tactical and I plan on killing as many enemies as I can as soon as the opportunity presents, regardless of my chances of success. Relay my coordinates and I will NOT take it lightly.
But seriously, if any of you ever see me personally shutdown/hide at the end of the match, I assure you it's tactical and I plan on killing as many enemies as I can as soon as the opportunity presents, regardless of my chances of success. Relay my coordinates and I will NOT take it lightly.
us teamchat and relay your plan to your team, and then there should be no issue. Say nothing, and people just gotta assume.
#115
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- Civil Servant
- 6,558 posts
Member
- LocationUSA
Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:23 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 01 February 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:
us teamchat and relay your plan to your team, and then there should be no issue. Say nothing, and people just gotta assume.
#116
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- Mercenary
- 4,763 posts
Member
- LocationAurora, Indiana, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:24 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 01 February 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:
us [sic] teamchat and relay your plan to your team, and then there should be no issue. Say nothing, and people just gotta assume.
I've personally done exactly this only to have one player persistently call out my position to the enemy, even as I'm actively manuevering - I never stopped and I never powered down, and my mech was in good enough shape that I could have done some fine work if I'd managed to catch a lone hostile unawares, yet injured enough that a straight-up fight against somebody who was being fed intel on my position was a foregone conclusion.
#117
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- Legendary Founder
- 4,087 posts
Member
- LocationLost in my C1
Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:25 PM
When ever I have a dead *cough bs* teamate *cough* give my position away as the last mech I either hover near the out of bounds and go full throttle out of bounds just as an enemy spots me, overdie and self destruct, or power down at the farthest point on the map. When some ******* denies me the remaining time in the match to pay the game and possible win it; I deny the enemy of that kill and drag out the match as long as possible.
#118
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- Knight Errant
- 127 posts
Member
- LocationKamloooooooops
Posted 01 February 2015 - 02:00 PM
The people who run away though are just annoying at least fight to the death.
#119
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- The 1 Percent
- 4,183 posts
Member
- LocationThe perimieter, out here there are no stars.
Posted 01 February 2015 - 02:03 PM
Bishop Steiner, on 01 February 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:
us teamchat and relay your plan to your team, and then there should be no issue. Say nothing, and people just gotta assume.
People who assume... What is it they say?
I assume your a ******? Is that ok?
How stupid is that?
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