717 replies to this topic

[MonochromeGoat]

Raggedyman, on 01 February 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

If you absolutely, positively feel that you must report someone for using tactics you object to then at least just report them, don't do the whole "I'm a gonna reporting youss!" dance.

Jesus Christ, explain to me how powering down and refusing to fight (read this carefully) is a god damn 'viable tactic'.

[Catra Lanis]

Grickshaft, on 01 February 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

Honestly move on and start another match? You guys are honestly saying you have 1 viable Mech? If he is powered down and will not participate in the rest of the match, quit out and report. This is what like once in 100 matches? Only thing i would be mad about if i was the opposing team AND still alive, yes. If not, you're dead, leave and get some more cbills. No need to have a heart attack over this

The must play this one mech argument is just a smokescreen, what this is about is that dead players want to force their playstyle on you. They say that they are tied up, someone said he could have played 3 matches while waiting. (I doubt that) but guess what. He can play one match while waiting in another mech if the C-Bills are all important and my suspician is that they are not, another smokescreen. There aren't that many new people and even to a new one 80-120k won't make or break them.

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 February 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

It's neither allowed nor disallowed, it's not mentioned, hence the gray area. Support wants us to report it when it happens, therefore it's a questionable tactic as it can be valid or it can be griefing, usage determines final result. PGI looks at the incident, looks at the user and their history, and makes the call, we just make sure they have the information so they can look.

Pretty sure there's no rule against me using nerve gas on the defense when playing football, I mean I KNOW it's not specifically prohibited, so it's ok, right? Ok, maybe just some chloroform on their mouthguards? That's ok right, I mean, it's not expressly forbidden after all, look in the rules.

Hyperbole much? I might agree that the wording is somewhat open to interpretation but when you use words as "not acceptable" you should make it clear that it is YOUR opinion and not something PGI has officially stated.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Raggedyman, on 01 February 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

Done, the email reads


Assuming they replay and that it doesn't have a "Don't Post This!" I'll put up the response as copy/pasta.




If you absolutely, positively feel that you must report someone for using tactics you object to then at least just report them, don't do the whole "I'm a gonna reporting youss!" dance.

Cute wording there, 'not directly engaged in combat sufficient to the wishes of Player A?', which is not the action we're discussing, but nice try! The actual action is shutting down to avoid any combat as the last player on your team in Skirmish while the enemy has more than 1 Mech standing. I'm sure they'll check the thread and see what we're really discussing, despite you trying to make it something else entirely.

And please, where in the thread do I state I harass people like that? I usually don't even mention I'm reporting someone, I just do it.

[Raggedyman]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 February 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Pretty sure there's no rule against me using nerve gas on the defense when playing football, I mean I KNOW it's not specifically prohibited, so it's ok, right? Ok, maybe just some chloroform on their mouthguards? That's ok right, I mean, it's not expressly forbidden after all, look in the rules.

You would be after the standard the "don't committee a criminal offence whilst playing" rules for that one, which is a handy cover-all in such situations. That covers war crimes and poisoning, assuming your in a country where that kind of thing is illegal.

[MonochromeGoat]

Raggedyman, on 01 February 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

You would be after the standard the "don't committee a criminal offence whilst playing" rules for that one, which is a handy cover-all in such situations. That covers war crimes and poisoning, assuming your in a country where that kind of thing is illegal.

Desertion is a crime aswell.

[FupDup]

I seriously don't understand what kind of paranormal force possesses some players to hide without any intention of trying to win.

If your team is on conquest and you're leading by cap points, shutting down to achieve a capture win is legit. Or maybe you might shut down temporarily until an enemy passes by, and then re-power up to resume your efforts to achieve victory. Or if you're the last one standing, you might just say f#ck it and go out in a blaze of glory. Maybe you try to methodically hunt down enemy stragglers one by one until they're all eliminated or they eliminate you instead. Whichever of these paths is chosen, the distinction here is that the last man is actively trying to win the game.


If you're not trying to win, why the heck are you even doing it?



If it's for KDR E-Peen preservation, you could have gotten more kills if you'd actually stayed with your team and helped them focus fire on people. The only other reason I can think of is that you for some reason get stimulation from annoying/inconveniencing other people.

Just....why? Would it really be so bad that you attempt to get some captures and/or kills in an effort to win the match? Who knows, you might even manage to turn the tables around if you're good/lucky enough. Or you could just give up and not try...

Edited by FupDup, 01 February 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[Raggedyman]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 February 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Cute wording there, 'not directly engaged in combat sufficient to the wishes of Player A?', which is not the action we're discussing, but nice try! The actual action is shutting down to avoid any combat as the last player on your team in Skirmish while the enemy has more than 1 Mech standing. I'm sure they'll check the thread and see what we're really discussing, despite you trying to make it something else entirely.

As per my OP

Raggedyman, on 01 February 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

Have just come out of a public match where it 11 to 2 with 5 minutes to go, and folks were very happily reporting the remaining enemy unit for cheating because he hadn't presented himself to their presence for immediate execution (as apparently was his duty). This isn't the first time I've seen it, and I'm quite sure it isn't the last, but it continues to boil my blood.

Also, as per my post, I asked them to check the thread, which hopefully they will, and respond accordingly. So if I was trying to slip one past I really did fall at the first hurdle of chicanery with that.

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 February 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

And please, where in the thread do I state I harass people like that? I usually don't even mention I'm reporting someone, I just do it.

You didn't, and if my words came across as imply that then I honestly apologise. As per that post if you are just reporting and not saying anything then that's cool, even though I clearly don't think you should be reporting it in the first place.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Catra Lanis, on 01 February 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

The must play this one mech argument is just a smokescreen, what this is about is that dead players want to force their playstyle on you. They say that they are tied up, someone said he could have played 3 matches while waiting. (I doubt that) but guess what. He can play one match while waiting in another mech if the C-Bills are all important and my suspician is that they are not, another smokescreen. There aren't that many new people and even to a new one 80-120k won't make or break them.



Hyperbole much? I might agree that the wording is somewhat open to interpretation but when you use words as "not acceptable" you should make it clear that it is YOUR opinion and not something PGI has officially stated.

I do make clear it's my opinion, and it's an opinion shared by the majority of the community so far, in this thread and others on the exact same subject many times over.

What wording is open to interpretation? The action is not covered in the rules, so how do you get that? Do you mean the 'spirit of the game' bit? Well, if you do, obviously doing anything but engaging the enemy in combat in Skirmish is clearly against the 'spirit of the game'. We have no retreat or eject options in MWO, therefore stating that you SHOULD be able to do those things is meaningless, you know you can't therefore they aren't options. If you do anything that isn't helping achieve the objective of killing the enemy team, you aren't really playing in the 'spirit of the game' now are you? If you actively avoid combat with the enemy team then you are totally against the 'spirit of the game' aren't you?

Again, football, you get the ball, you drop it and start trying to play soccer because you don't LIKE football and want to play soccer instead. What exactly do you really expect is going to happen at that point?

[Catra Lanis]

MonochromeGoat, on 01 February 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Jesus Christ, explain to me how powering down and refusing to fight (read this carefully) is a god damn 'viable tactic'.

The other team is out to kill you. You are out to kill them. If you are in no position to do anything but be target practice you can shut down, thereby preventing them from achieveing their objective and maybe, just maybe get a personal draw.

Nothing stops the other team from searching and hunting you down, in fact that's part of their job description.

[Raggedyman]

MonochromeGoat, on 01 February 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

Desertion is a crime aswell.

which is covered by the "don't keep going out of bounds rule", which is a different discussion.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Raggedyman, on 01 February 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

As per my OP



Also, as per my post, I asked them to check the thread, which hopefully they will, and respond accordingly. So if I was trying to slip one past I really did fall at the first hurdle of chicanery with that.



You didn't, and if my words came across as imply that then I honestly apologise. As per that post if you are just reporting and not saying anything then that's cool, even though I clearly don't think you should be reporting it in the first place.

MY apologies, I was thinking of another thread ongoing at this time with a similiar OP topic. Reporting just because, no, shouldn't be done. If that last guy was active and trying to kill the enemy, there's nothing to report. If he was just hiding to avoid a death, yes, by all means, report him, think my opinion on that one is clear

[MonochromeGoat]

Catra Lanis, on 01 February 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

The other team is out to kill you. You are out to kill them. If you are in no position to do anything but be target practice you can shut down, thereby preventing them from achieveing their objective and maybe, just maybe get a personal draw.

Nothing stops the other team from searching and hunting you down, in fact that's part of their job description.

Except the other team will still win by kills most of the time or even by cap.Again, being a ***** is a legitimate tactic in conquest, and only in conquest.

Edited by MonochromeGoat, 01 February 2015 - 09:45 AM.

[Raggedyman]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 February 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

I do make clear it's my opinion, and it's an opinion shared by the majority of the community so far, in this thread and others on the exact same subject many times over.

Yeah, the "in this thread" comment bugged me so I did a quick run through the posts.

Posts broadly supporting the OP :29
Likes for posts broadly supporting the OP :53
Posts broadly opposing the OP: 30
Likes for posts broadly supporting the OP: 47

I discounted all but one of my posts on the "broadly supporting" count BTW, did bother taking out any other heavy posters because it was a quick run through. I also removed anything which didn't have a clear opinion stated/was getting OT.

So that's one extra post opposing but 6 extra likes supporting.
Not quite as clear cut as you make out.

Can't comment on the other threads, as I haven't read them all, but in this thread your majority (as this point) is somewhat debatable.

[Tarogato]

Heh, I love when people post threads like this when only half of their intended audience will ever log into the forums at all.

But seriously, if any of you ever see me personally shutdown/hide at the end of the match, I assure you it's tactical and I plan on killing as many enemies as I can as soon as the opportunity presents, regardless of my chances of success. Relay my coordinates and I will NOT take it lightly.

Edited by Tarogato, 01 February 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Cementi]

Raggedyman, on 01 February 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

Have just come out of a public match where it 11 to 2 with 5 minutes to go, and folks were very happily reporting the remaining enemy unit for cheating because he hadn't presented himself to their presence for immediate execution (as apparently was his duty). This isn't the first time I've seen it, and I'm quite sure it isn't the last, but it continues to boil my blood.

The rules are "15 minutes or all enemy dead", not 'till you think you should have the win', so either get off your butt and make all enemy dead (especially if you have 10 mechs to find them with) or get off your butt and get PGI to change the rules set so that the game stops and gives the victory at a different point.

Don't report some guy for not wanting to get perished, or who think they have or might actually have the plan and the skills to stage a comeback, and who is actually playing within the rules set. Work for your win, don't moan for it or demand it to satisfy your ego or whatever schedule the rest of the world must follow during your leisure time.

People like you are the reason we don't have a decent reporting system, because you'll end up reporting for anything you view to be an infraction of your own personal 'how the game must be played' listing (which currently includes "losing the match", "reversing when /I/ wouldn't", "friendly fire in the middle of a brawl", "having an overly colourful paintjob" and "using LRMs/ballistics/lasers/clanmechs".)

Just play the damn game, and if someone being alive angers you that much then find them and take it out on their damn hull!

Sorry, unless there is a chance of winning by hiding (ie CW where you hope that they pass you so you can sneak in and take off the last of omega, or a conquest map where they cannot cap in time) there is no excuse for being a chicken s#!& coward and powering down in a corner to protect your precious KDR. At this point all you are doing is proving you have the sportsmanship of a spoiled 10 year old by being pissed you got rolled and trying to grief the winners by forcing them to wait the full 15 mins.

Be a good sport and at least have the decency to remain powered up and try some hit and run tactics. It will at least earn you some more cbills without earning the contempt of the opposing team. Another option would be to throw your override on and kill yourself or run out of bounds to deny them earning a kill on you while not wasting everyones time.

Allthough I am only a board member in our merc corp I feel confident that anyone of our people caught doing this would get a couple warnings before they got the boot. It accomplishes nothing other than earning the ire of other players and dragging a unit's name through the mud to protect your KDR is a pretty douchey move. It is pretty much the worst form of poor sportsmanship you can have in mwo.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Cementi, on 01 February 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

Sorry, unless there is a chance of winning by hiding (ie CW where you hope that they pass you so you can sneak in and take off the last of omega, or a conquest map where they cannot cap in time) there is no excuse for being a chicken s#!& coward and powering down in a corner to protect your precious KDR. At this point all you are doing is proving you have the sportsmanship of a spoiled 10 year old by being pissed you got rolled and trying to grief the winners by forcing them to wait the full 15 mins.

Be a good sport and at least have the decency to remain powered up and try some hit and run tactics. It will at least earn you some more cbills without earning the contempt of the opposing team. Another option would be to throw your override on and kill yourself or run out of bounds to deny them earning a kill on you while not wasting everyones time.

Allthough I am only a board member in our merc corp I feel confident that anyone of our people caught doing this would get a couple warnings before they got the boot. It accomplishes nothing other than earning the ire of other players and dragging a unit's name through the mud to protect your KDR is a pretty douchey move. It is pretty much the worst form of poor sportsmanship you can have in mwo.

You mean I could get kicked out of girl scouts? Oh, the humanity.

[Duke Nedo]

IMO this is a really easy question. As long as that lone player is still connected to the game he is allowed to play it in any way he chooses, including hiding, shutting down etc. It's annoying as hell sometimes but it's his right. However, the moment he disconnects he has no longer the right to waste other people's time without simultaneously wasting his own.

One has to differ between abuse and being annoying...

[Rushin Roulette]

TWIAFU, on 01 February 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

compacted

OK. lets go through your list there point by point in respect to the accusations from the OP and some others about the last player not going to suicide if against a full team. I am going in the assumption that this player had participated at some point during the match and just ran awaya after the tables had turned and he was the last one alive;

• Wilfully or repeatedly destroying Teammate or Lancemate 'Mechs. - Does not have anything to do with this thread
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly self-destructing one's 'Mech by Overheating or going Out-of-Bounds - The player in questions is actually actively NOT doing this.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.- The player in questions is actually actively NOT doing this.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly spamming in-game chat.- Does not have anything to do with this thread
  
• Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics. - If the player fought during the match, dealt damage to the opposing team and ran away AFTER the fight had already been lost, then this is a non-issue.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.- Does not have anything to do with this thread

[Mainhunter]

I only play conquest, and when I see someone hiding without trying to cap anything, or to kill somebody, I post his position.

Had one today at the other team. Let us full 4 minutes searching for him. Hiding because the time runs in your favor is ok, hiding to save your k/d stats NOT!

[MauttyKoray]

Vassago Rain, on 01 February 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

No one tolerates having their time wasted.

Then stop playing video games.

Unless the guy is hiding in a corner shut down I won't report his location. If he is actively engaging the enemy its one thing, or moving tactically, but sitting in a corner for 30 seconds or so and afking is a 'nope' from me.