254 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Escef, on 04 February 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

In other words, he made mistakes. He did stuff that was easily exploited by the enemy. And he wants easy fixes put in place on the map.

every argument about LRM balance ever summed up

[Mister Blastman]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 February 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

dont forget fast travel - none of that in oblivion (that I remember)

Good point! I nearly forgot that abomination. Morrowind had a form of it but you at least had to pay money for it and couldn't use it in the middle of nowhere (other than mark/recall--but that required magic).

[Ratpoison]

Mister Blastman, on 04 February 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Give me a break. Some of us were real men... and played them for what they were... without Nintendo Power. Or, you know... some of us played PC games in the 80s... Stuff like Ultima 5, 6 and 7. Stuff that told you NOTHING and had to figure it all out on your own.

I'd laugh probably watching today's "gamer" try to play Ultima 6. They'd laughably throw up their arms after a few hours and quit because it required too much thought or something.

There was no handholding. There was only months of playing, reading, talking, exploring. There was no automap in Bard's Tale. Instead, there were squares that turned the screen black and shouted "Darkness!" And all you had was your graph paper. And even then, sometimes, you'd stumble upon a door, land in a room with 99 Berserkers, 99 Berserkers, 99 Berserkers and 99 Berserkers... and if your Wizard didn't have MIBL (mind blade) or was out of mana... oh dear. You were screwed.

And the best part? Death was death. If you turned the game off... guess what? It wiped your entire bank account balance. Yeah. That was hardcore. It had, you know... consequences.

Us real men didn't use hint books. We grew wirey beards and drank naphtha before we took on the Grey Dragon. Because you know what? We didn't open our mouths like sissies and scream when it licked us with its burning flames.

And when our families died in Oregon Trail... we liked it!

Games these days. Meh. Don't get me started.

I'd like to see you try and beat Zelda 1 without a hintbook. Or how about Metroid 1, no cheats, no hints... or Goonies 2... or *gasp* if you are a real man... go ahead and beat Dragon Slayer IV, Drasle Family. And after that, Castlevania 1 and 3 without hints. Get back to me after that, kid.

Gag. If there's anything more annoying than the elitist "no noobs" mentality people around here hold on to, it's the ridiculous "boy's club" mentality older male gamers cling to as if it's a universal unstated fact. I didn't have to be a "real man" of any sort when I completed Castlevania or Ultima I and II without help, or the first Metroid in under an hour, or Battletoads on the NES with no continues.

But I digress. Times have changed, and while the ultra difficult "find your own way" format of gaming past still holds a small viable place in modern indie gaming, and I enjoy that they have that, but games of this size and scale cannot survive with such barriers to potential players in place. Games of the 80's were most often created entirely by teams consisting of less than 10 people, and thus were able to maintain realistic financial goals at a tiny fraction of what modern games such as this one require simply to survive. As deep as the pockets of die hard Battletech fans go for anything related to the franchise, it is still not nearly enough to sustain a game of this scale on its own. Without a significant degree of new player accessibility, this game will sputter out and die under the weight of the Steam release's publishing costs.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, 04 February 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mister Blastman, on 04 February 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

Good point! I nearly forgot that abomination. Morrowind had a form of it but you at least had to pay money for it and couldn't use it in the middle of nowhere (other than mark/recall--but that required magic).

SEE the edit!! I made a major mistake XD I meant there was no fast travel in Morrowind, and the Taxis dont really count vs whats in Oblivion or Skyrim

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Escef, on 04 February 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

He complains of getting isolated and taking to long too relocate, and possibly jumped while in the process, of being spotted while on a long approach, blah blah blah. In other words, he made mistakes. He did stuff that was easily exploited by the enemy. And he wants easy fixes put in place on the map. Yes, that's wanting bad decision possibilities removed. Are you THAT incapable of seeing that? The fact that he complains about doing it says they were bad decisions, but he blames the map, and wants changes made so he can make these bad decisions with little to no repercussions.

Community Warfare is designed to be hardcore competitive mode. If you want crying baby mode, we have a new player experience being worked on, perhaps a(nother) thread on what belongs in the New Player Experience. I have no complaints about the idea of proverbial training wheels there. New players need to be eased in, MWO has an unforgiving learning curve. But CW? Up your game or go back to the 12v12 queues.

You still didn't actually answer my question, you just went on to rant about how he is a crybaby and needs L2P.
I will repeat in all bold to make sure, how is making a defensive position more vulnerable or removing pathing removing bad decisions?

Escef, on 04 February 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Yup, committing what you think is bad taste is a horrible sin on my part. Truly, I am a horrible person and should leave the community... Carefacemissedit. (Note: This is not a strawman, it's mother f***ing sarcasm. I'm saying I don't give a s*** about what you think is bad taste.)

People are out of their damned minds, I swear.

So you don't give a s*** about what other people think but expect others too care about what you think or is it that this exercise is just so you can complain about people "complaining?"

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

tortuousGoddess, on 04 February 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

Gag. If there's anything more annoying than the elitist "no noobs" mentality people around here hold on to

reeeeaaaaaly, thats a thing specific to here?

Cause it's in EVERY SINGLE game Ive EVER played since the invention of online gaming

[Ratpoison]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 February 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

reeeeaaaaaly, thats a thing specific to here?

Cause it's in EVERY SINGLE game Ive EVER played since the invention of online gaming

And if you had bothered to read the rest of the post you'd see why that doesn't fly in modern gaming.

You're sidestepping, and poorly.

[Escef]

WM Quicksilver, on 04 February 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

...how is making a defensive position more vulnerable or removing pathing removing bad decisions?

Escef, on 04 February 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

He complains of getting isolated and taking to long too relocate, and possibly jumped while in the process, of being spotted while on a long approach, blah blah blah. In other words, he made mistakes. He did stuff that was easily exploited by the enemy. And he wants easy fixes put in place on the map. Yes, that's wanting bad decision possibilities removed. Are you THAT incapable of seeing that? The fact that he complains about doing it says they were bad decisions, but he blames the map, and wants changes made so he can make these bad decisions with little to no repercussions.

I answered it. Get some reading comprehension, I hear it's going for $10.95 at WalMart.

[Mister Blastman]

tortuousGoddess, on 04 February 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

And if you had bothered to read the rest of the post you'd see why that doesn't fly in modern gaming.

You're sidestepping, and poorly.

It completely flies in modern gaming. The problem isn't the games... it is the people.

Yes, times have changed. We pander to the lowest common denominator and no longer require people to have accountability or responsibility for things. We teach them at a young age that if they cry and whine we'll make it easy for them. That they can do no wrong and everything will be handed to them on a platter.

I like my pompous computer elitism snobbery, thank you.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

tortuousGoddess, on 04 February 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

And if you had bothered to read the rest of the post you'd see why that doesn't fly in modern gaming.

You're sidestepping, and poorly.

Youre attributing one of the most widespread attitude in gaming online to this community falsely.

[Ratpoison]

Mister Blastman, on 04 February 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

It completely flies in modern gaming. The problem isn't the games... it is the people.

Yes, times have changed. We pander to the lowest common denominator and no longer require people to have accountability or responsibility for things. We teach them at a young age that if they cry and whine we'll make it easy for them. That they can do no wrong and everything will be handed to them on a platter.

I like my pompous computer elitism snobbery, thank you.

And with the costs require to create modern games on this scale you'd quickly run any project into the ground with that thinking, which is ultimately the point. Who gets pandered to isn't relevant when you're bankrupt. Your opinions on modern society aren't relevant to that in the end.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mister Blastman, on 04 February 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

It completely flies in modern gaming. The problem isn't the games... it is the people.

Yes, times have changed. We pander to the lowest common denominator and no longer require people to have accountability or responsibility for things. We teach them at a young age that if they cry and whine we'll make it easy for them. That they can do no wrong and everything will be handed to them on a platter.

I like my pompous computer elitism snobbery, thank you.

me too

tortuousGoddess, on 04 February 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

And with the costs require to create modern games on this scale you'd quickly run any project into the ground with that thinking, which is ultimately the point. Who gets pandered to isn't relevant when you're bankrupt. Your opinions on modern society aren't relevant to that in the end.

SWTOR

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Escef, on 04 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

I answered it. Get some reading comprehension, I hear it's going for $10.95 at WalMart.

The first part, you don't say why its wrong, just that it is a problem.
The second part was not an explanation, that was you saying he makes mistakes blah blah blah.

Let me put it simpler, why is being able to relocate faster on approach of a superior defensive position a bad thing?

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 04 February 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[Escef]

WM Quicksilver, on 04 February 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Let me put it simpler, why is being able to relocate faster on approach of a superior defensive position a bad thing?

It's not, I'm saying that removing a path where that is not possible is bad because it eliminates:

• An area where the defender can punish a misplay.
  
• An area where the attacker might be able to pull a high-risk/high-reward move.

I've said this several times, and you seem to have missed it repeatedly.

[Mister Blastman]

tortuousGoddess, on 04 February 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

And with the costs require to create modern games on this scale you'd quickly run any project into the ground with that thinking, which is ultimately the point. Who gets pandered to isn't relevant when you're bankrupt. Your opinions on modern society aren't relevant to that in the end.

lol

Okay. It seems to me Star Citizen is doing just fine. So is Elite Dangerous.

Oh. Wait. They were games that shouldn't exist... but... wait... they do! Try again. Thanks.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Escef, on 04 February 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

It's not, I'm saying that removing a path where that is not possible is bad because it eliminates:

• An area where the defender can punish a misplay.
  
• An area where the attacker might be able to pull a high-risk/high-reward move.

I've said this several times, and you seem to have missed it repeatedly.

One rather large assumption you are making, is that pathing is needed for a defender to punish a misplay, when going through any funnel once spotted IS a misplay (which is what he is referring to I believe).

When all avenues of attack are high-risk/high-reward zones, there is something wrong with the map design.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 04 February 2015 - 10:44 PM.

[Ratpoison]

Mister Blastman, on 04 February 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

lol

Okay. It seems to me Star Citizen is doing just fine. So is Elite Dangerous.

Oh. Wait. They were games that shouldn't exist... but... wait... they do! Try again. Thanks.

Neither relevant nor comparable...it seems you're the one who needs to try again.

[Mister Blastman]

tortuousGoddess, on 04 February 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

Neither relevant nor comparable...it seems you're the one who needs to try again.

They are COMPLETELY relevant. Learn about both of those games and their philosophies.

[Ratpoison]

Mister Blastman, on 04 February 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

They are COMPLETELY relevant. Learn about both of those games and their philosophies.

Not at all. This grasping at straws isn't worth any more of my time.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

tortuousGoddess, on 04 February 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Not at all. This grasping at straws isn't worth any more of my time.

at least he surrendered the point with grace