760 replies to this topic

[Noesis]

Davers, on 09 February 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Just when you thought the thread couldn't get any worse, Noesis shows up.

You missed my first reaction then it seems to this Initiative and interesting then that you would only assume the worst.

But the Dark Born are getting used to these prejudicial viewpoints usually from a point of ignorance and convenience from others as opposed to being understood and due diligence afforded to our point of perspective.

However. Noticeably some of your leadership appears more pragmatic so I won't generalise one persons opinion to these matters. Especially when they simply jump to conclusions.

Edited by Noesis, 09 February 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[Tank]

Davers, on 09 February 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Just when you thought the thread couldn't get any worse, Noesis shows up.

How he can possibly make things worse? I know he casts shadows and hide banana peels there, but that's about it.

This thread is full of meddling politicians, witch are acting in their predictable useless manner. If they fired a shot at invading forces for each word they spoken - this war would long be over.

[Dauphni]

New day, new installment of *Magical Words with Dauphni*! Today I would like to talk to you about Governance. In the words of the wise Michael Palin, "supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses." Of course, in real life that mandate can be achieved through many different means, but in the context of player groups in MWO, where people are free to come and go and no formal systems of enforcement are in place, the only viable way is through consent of the governed. People here will not follow anyone they do not like, trust or respect. Just because you say you are the boss does not mean you can rule. You need people backing you up to have any real influence. It also works the other way around. Even if you do not consider yourself to be a leader, if enough people think you are worthy of following, you'll find yourself in a leadership position anyway. Remember all of this when you talk about who gets to decide what!

[reign]

cool, the star league is reborn, means were only 1 step away from it desolving and the Jihad happening.

Then the dark ages

Then wolf can take Terra

Things happen fast in this game!

[Mycrus]

kids... refocus on the OP and ignore the shitposting...

[CyclonerM]

LordSkyKnight, on 08 February 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

You're the one who said that you control the "great majority of competent to high end competitive players," not me. My only argument is that if you truly cared about good fun PvP as much as you seem to spout about it, your actions would probably be a lot different. For starters, you and your unit should be fighting against MS wherever they go instead of following them around stomping pugs. That would make for some damn good PvP if you're even half as good as you claim to be. Or maybe MS would be trying harder to drop opposite of the comp units that didn't join them instead of going where it's easiest to get more planets tagged. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions state that you don't give a damn about good PvP.

ThomasMarik, on 08 February 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

Given how little is left of FRR I don't understand why MS went FWL. They can attack on numerous active fronts from FRR and might even be able to save it. Instead they are in the FWL pushing the bordrs here.

You see? They have always joined the faction that was making the most gain, to take advantage of it and tag the most planets with ease. If they really wanted fights, they would have been fighting for the FRR trying to save it from all the Clans. Or House Kurita, as CI and Aces did, if i am not wrong. Instead, they jumped on the winning faction..

HBizzle, on 08 February 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

This may be due to our reputation, or simply the character of the units and people involved in the meeting in the first place. Who knows.

You gave yourself two good answers there

Necromantion, on 08 February 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

6) I am willing to bet that MS leadership is constantly in contact with more unit/faction leaders than most if not any other units other than the other large merc unit CI. Why because we are willing to work with people.


8) My understanding regarding this situation of this star league is that MS is more than willing to help out and work with whatever agreements are binding the IS or Clan factions HOWEVER for some reason were seen as a threat because people know full well that if we decide to focus on a faction if provoked we would do what we did to wolf, or that we swap around from faction to faction as we see fit.

If you talk to any of our leaders on the diplomatic fronts Im sure you will find them to be more than level headed and reasonable people as long as the whole *Putting on my cloak and wizard hat* is left on the sidelines. Asking to have some input things on an equal playing field as the "7th unit" or whatnot that is outlined I don't think is unreasonable especially when it has nothing to do with being the "omnipotent rulers" of anything.

Work with others? When you disgregard any agreement made by the rest of the faction you are fighting for, and your stance is "we do whatever we want", you are doing quite the opposite.

I was not at the conference, but it was said that you would disgregard any ceasefire and agreement the Star League would have voted on..

Roadbeer, on 08 February 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

So you ARE saying that MS can't be trusted.

Looking at their past history it was already clear

ThomasMarik, on 08 February 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

So you are saying MS Is not getting the option to defend clan planets? Have you sent in a bug report?

LOL
Well played sir.

Valar13, on 09 February 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

The reason being, after you leave a faction and move on, the loyalists then have to deal with whatever you left behind. Be that a vengeful neighbor, or anything else.

The Ghost Bears know it. MS started fighting for them, sowing discord among friendly Clans and left behind them more or less justified distrust and thirst of vengeance..

reign, on 09 February 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

cool, the star league is reborn, means were only 1 step away from it desolving and the Jihad happening.

Then the dark ages

Then wolf can take Terra

Things happen fast in this game!

A battle of Tukayyid happened in 3050! A big Clan vs Clan war in 3050 as well (but this time we are not going to be the Clan being split and going in exile )! The Clans are close to Terra.. What will happen in 3051?

Mycrus, on 09 February 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

kids... refocus on the OP and ignore the shitposting...

They said they are going to make a new thread, so we can let this go on. Sometimes it is better not to ignore the trolls, after all Seriously, this thread is becoming one of the funniest i have ever read.. In some kind of positive way...

[ApolloKaras]

Mycrus, on 09 February 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

kids... refocus on the OP and ignore the shitposting...

I think it's contagious, the shitposting that is.

[Necromantion]

Roadbeer, on 08 February 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

1. Can't blame people for wanting to visit the sunny southwest Inner Sphere. It's quite pleasant this time of year.
2. Are you saying that MS cant be held to honor the agreements made by the factions they choose to sign on with?

We have not attacked Liao, correct? That was part of the Marik agreement when we joined, correct?

Valar13, on 09 February 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

Man, you're too good at giving me material.

If he's the one cool Marik, and you're wearing purple this week, I guess I don't need to insult you any further than you just insulted yourself.

You really come across as a petulant child taking a tantrum because something happened he doesnt agree with or doesnt like and you sure enjoy twisting words where it suits you. Let us discuss the interpretation of what he said, he was saying that the Marik he was referring to was level headed, unlike yourself who seems to be slightly more irate with each and every post you make.

CyclonerM, on 09 February 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

You see? They have always joined the faction that was making the most gain, to take advantage of it and tag the most planets with ease. If they really wanted fights, they would have been fighting for the FRR trying to save it from all the Clans. Or House Kurita, as CI and Aces did, if i am not wrong. Instead, they jumped on the winning faction..


You gave yourself two good answers there

Work with others? When you disgregard any agreement made by the rest of the faction you are fighting for, and your stance is "we do whatever we want", you are doing quite the opposite.

I was not at the conference, but it was said that you would disgregard any ceasefire and agreement the Star League would have voted on..


Looking at their past history it was already clear

LOL
Well played sir.

The Ghost Bears know it. MS started fighting for them, sowing discord among friendly Clans and left behind them more or less justified distrust and thirst of vengeance..

A battle of Tukayyid happened in 3050! A big Clan vs Clan war in 3050 as well (but this time we are not going to be the Clan being split and going in exile )! The Clans are close to Terra.. What will happen in 3051?


They said they are going to make a new thread, so we can let this go on. Sometimes it is better not to ignore the trolls, after all Seriously, this thread is becoming one of the funniest i have ever read.. In some kind of positive way...

Cycloner, your deep-throating of anyone and everything that attempts to defame MS and lurking on threads regarding our actions is getting old. It is clear your tail got tweaked when we pushed your stupid faction back beyond its starting planets and ONLY stopped when CGB stated they wanted you to have an IS attack lane.

On that note let me clarify a few things:

We used to be FRR on our IS swaps however the faction was hopeless, whatever advances we made were lost in half the time it took us to obtain them so why bother doing that since we swap back and forth between factions? So we can recapture the same handful of planets for a faction for them to be lost the next time we play for them? If we wanted an easy fight we would be up back in CGB hammering the crap out of CW with the only decent defence on NA hours being SWOL.

Once again we have honored Mariks ceasefire with Liao, and were and are more than willing to work with the Star League but have been told that somehow we dont fit into the "merc" description they outlined for some reason.

We work with CI and Aces, the decision of the Marik and Kurita split was something ALL parties discussed and decided on as have all previous moves.

So you werent at the conference, and are listening to heresy because it suits your internet ego's pursuit of vengence against MS because we spanked you repeatedly for weeks, gotcha. If you go back to the beginning of the thread exactly what happened was explained by members that were there and if you wish to come on MS ts and talk to tony Im sure he would be fine with clarifying what happened as we have nothing to lose or gain by being dishonest.

CGB attacking wolf as youre referring to happened because a certain idiot initiated conflict with CGB after lying about asking permission to recap a previously CW planet after a ceasefire had been agreed to, and he KEPT dropping on it after being stomped. Need i bring up the screenshots from that thread with the self admission of your dear butt-buddy Gyrok himself?

Funny thing is "The clans" minus CW are pushing south, it seems wolf got themselves into a sticky spot. I wouldn't hesitate to say that youre going to have to politely ask CSJ or CJF to potentially allow you access to IS attack lanes as CGB has been kind enough to attempt to let you have though that seems to not be working out too well huh.

In closing get the heck outta here Cycloner and go play with Gyrok and Kain Thul in the sandbox.

[Dawnstealer]

Consider me dubious...

Edited by Dawnstealer, 09 February 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

snip

I have no other thought than, don't respond to the trolls. Two, I can't imagine this post paints the alliance in any positive light... *sigh

[Scoops Kerensky]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Slightly related, but all of us in Kurita would appreciate it more if the mercs talking to each other would be willing to contact us more. Nobody let us know that CI or ACES would be joining us, and the only talking CI does with us is jumping into our channels to tell us to attack the jaguars more without even introducing themselves. We don't mind helping, but it miffs people to have strangers come in and try to tell us what we need to be doing without explaining much to us and getting angry when we don't jump immediately - something I'm sure MS, ACES, and CI can all appreciate.

[Necromantion]

Saxie, on 09 February 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

I have no other thought than, don't respond to the trolls. Two, I can't imagine this post paints the alliance in any positive light... *sigh

The truth is right there Saxie, blunt form? Yes indeed.

Summed up:
1)MS has not gone against any agreements, the one time MS has been accused of this it was initiated by Wolf attacking a CGB planet after a ceasefire
2) MS would love to assist with the Star League however despite their outlining a 7th faction for Mercs which would be what MS is, we somehow apparently don't fall under that clause for some RP related reason or whatnot?
3) My comments towards individuals of Wolf that like to defame and make things up for their own amusement are my own statements, I am not talking for MS in that regard.

Socop, on 09 February 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Slightly related, but all of us in Kurita would appreciate it more if the mercs talking to each other would be willing to contact us more. Nobody let us know that CI or ACES would be joining us, and the only talking CI does with us is jumping into our channels to tell us to attack the jaguars more without even introducing themselves. We don't mind helping, but it miffs people to have strangers come in and try to tell us what we need to be doing without explaining much to us and getting angry when we don't jump immediately - something I'm sure MS, ACES, and CI can all appreciate.

That is a very fair statement Socop, I am not sure the exact stipulations of that situation as I was not aware that ACES and CI were going to be going to a different faction than MS this time, I do know that Tony and Bizzle would have been in contact with CI and ACES regarding this though.

Is it possible youre part of a smaller Kurita unit that wasnt contacted? Sadly it is hard to get a hold of every single unit within a faction and usually the larger/more active ones are the units contacted.

I cannot speak for CI or ACES as I have heard nothing from them regarding their internal workings as I am with MS however them being irate when you cant jump immediately seems a bit excessive. I would talk to leaders of CI and ACES and explain your concerns as the majority of leaders within those two groups are more than reasonable people to speak with however I do know that there are always over zealous RPers in this game that tend to blow things out of proportions too.

Edited by Necromantion, 09 February 2015 - 08:48 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

The truth is right there Saxie, blunt form? Yes indeed.

Summed up:
1)MS has not gone against any agreements, the one time MS has been accused of this it was initiated by Wolf attacking a CGB planet after a ceasefire
2) MS would love to assist with the Star League however despite their outlining a 7th faction for Mercs which would be what MS is, we somehow apparently don't fall under that clause for some RP related reason or whatnot?
3) My comments towards individuals of Wolf that like to defame and make things up for their own amusement are my own statements, I am not talking for MS in that regard.

Why, I dont talk for MS either, or TFF for that matter. However it must be said that impressions by posters over a period of time have helped this image of "everyone in MS is smack talkers etc". When people see things like the insults etc it just strengthens resolve against the alliance. I'll use the Star League Reforged thread as a perfect example.

Edited by Saxie, 09 February 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[Scoops Kerensky]

We would know, I'm head of NKVA which is one of the six Kurita loyalist units that make up our high council. We get contacted by merc groups at times and share it with each other on our forums - I believe we were contacted once by 228 a while ago about an unrelated matter, but no formal contact has been established with us outside of CI showing up with a rep in our teamspeak one day.

Honestly I hope that CI or ACES aren't too upset, Kurita's loyalist units are still debating the star league internally and not part of it right now. We're very grateful to have them both with us and want to be good hosts and coordinate our drops with them, it's just difficult to sometimes without knowing who we should be talking to, what times your groups play, etc. etc. There's a lot of miscommunication, and I'd like to get it resolved if possible so all parties are happy.

[Necromantion]

Saxie, on 09 February 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

Why, I dont talk for MS either, or TFF for that matter. However it must be said that impressions by posters over a period of time have helped this image of "everyone in MS is smack talkers etc". When people see things like the insults etc it just strengthens resolve against the alliance. I'll use the Star League Reforged thread as a perfect example.

Indeed Saxie, Ive played with you before while in CGB and I know you to be a reasonable and level headed individual.

Admittedly I have a low bull**** tolerance and people constantly spewing the same heresy or lies or solely taking pokes at opportunities while lurking and waiting does irritate me. MS has not done anything without talking with units of the faction they are with and working with them, the accusations of anything otherwise are ridiculous.

The attacks on Wolf that somehow brought up our "questionable" nature to be able to adhere to agreements was something that CGB was ok with AFTER Wolf attacked them with total disregard to the agreement. Thats it, plain and simple.

Currently with Marik we have adhered to their agreement not to attack Liao and have been trying to get in line with the SL agreement however as you can see from posts from various individuals posts regarding this "grey" area for merc units is not exactly all encompassing as its wording makes it seem out of convenience of the "leaders" in this revival to do what they want with the rules they are setting out that are already not being followed...

Socop, on 09 February 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

We would know, I'm head of NKVA which is one of the six Kurita loyalist units that make up our high council. We get contacted by merc groups at times and share it with each other on our forums - I believe we were contacted once by 228 a while ago about an unrelated matter, but no formal contact has been established with us outside of CI showing up with a rep in our teamspeak one day.

Honestly I hope that CI or ACES aren't too upset, Kurita's loyalist units are still debating the star league internally and not part of it right now. We're very grateful to have them both with us and want to be good hosts and coordinate our drops with them, it's just difficult to sometimes without knowing who we should be talking to, what times your groups play, etc. etc. There's a lot of miscommunication, and I'd like to get it resolved if possible so all parties are happy.

Fair enough Socop, like I said I am not familiar with Kurita units and wasn't sure of the size of and who your unit was is all, I would again then encourage you to get a hold of CI on Comstar TS. If you want I can give you that TS info if you don't have it. The person I would recommend you getting in touch with would be Joe Psycho.

I doubt they are upset with anything, this whole Star League seems to be a bit shaky at the moment with outlined clauses being able to be interpreted in convenient manners for the various makers of this new alliance hence which is one of the factors that is making people point the finger at MS again and being like "well youre not playing by our rules" when really there are a significant amount of IS only units who aren't either. Also if you ever need to get a hold of anyone in MS get a hold of Antonious Rex or HBizzle.

[Scoops Kerensky]

If you don't mind sending me the info that'd be great. I or one of the the ambassadors for our council could maybe get in contact with CI and ACES and see if we could clear things up and share any concerns we have on each end. I think there was a flare up because of misunderstandings and I'd like to help nip that in the bud - thank you for the contact info and names!

EDIT: some info for some info for MS as well: If you'd ever like to contact House Kurita, our main playerbase are currently six units with their heads that collectively vote to try and steer our house in certain directions, they are:


North America:

NKVA: Socop
NS: Prophetic
9SD: Mastachang10
6RNT: Chameleon257

We also have 2 German Units on the Council:

36th Dieron Regulars: MahKraah
11th Legion of Vega: Reitmeier

Generally contacting one of the 6 of us is best or one of our ambassadors, as we tend to all share information with each other and hold votes on what to do next collectively like Mercstar, only with 6 votes currently (hopefully more soon!) than 9.

Edited by Socop, 09 February 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Socop, on 09 February 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Slightly related, but all of us in Kurita would appreciate it more if the mercs talking to each other would be willing to contact us more. Nobody let us know that CI or ACES would be joining us, and the only talking CI does with us is jumping into our channels to tell us to attack the jaguars more without even introducing themselves. We don't mind helping, but it miffs people to have strangers come in and try to tell us what we need to be doing without explaining much to us and getting angry when we don't jump immediately - something I'm sure MS, ACES, and CI can all appreciate.

Enjoy it while it lasts. You'll push far into Clan territory, probably shove Ghost Bear back to the edge of of the Periphery, threaten the edges of Tharkad and New Avalon...

And then they'll head on over to Davion, or back to us, and the boom will drop again.

[Roadbeer]

Necromantion, on 09 February 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

Also if you ever need to get a hold of anyone in MS get a hold of Antonious Rex or HBizzle.

According to Hybrid, contacting either of them is not contacting MS, it's only contacting 1/9th respectively.

Anything discussed with them has no assurances, as they only represent one or two units of the whole of "MS", and regardless of whats decided, it sounds like it's up to the individual units (and from some of his more salty posts, players) to decide if that's going to happen or not.

Again, while Marik has had nothing but honest dealings with them in the past, his statements lead me to believe that was only because Marik's goals aligned with "MS"'s goals at the time, not because of any desire of what we really wanted to accomplish.

Edited by Roadbeer, 09 February 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Necromantion]

Regarding something that just came to mind, is it not slightly ironic that the the apparent rules set to outline the involvement of merc units in this revival are apparently not being honored?

https://docs.google....vzh7eB--t0/edit

Quote

Motion Two: Mercenary units may vote on SLDF decisions during such time that they are contracted with the Inner Sphere only. Pass 20:4, 4 abstain

Motion Three: The Mercenary units will represent a seventh house-like faction. Pass 18:5

Motion Four: All houses will send one representative to present all votes on their behalf to make Star League decisions. Pass 24:4, 0 abstain, One provisional Aye

This says that mercs are allowed to vote as long as they are on an IS contract, that there is a 7th house like faction and that each of those 7 factions will send one person to speak for them at conferences to make star league decisions. Correct?

How has MS threatened/not followed or usurped anything to do with this?

From various individuals posts on this thread somehow MS does not fall into these motions two to four? If so please explain how.



Regarding a few more things:

Quote

Motion Five: We are enacting a Star Legaue, creating a *soft ceasefire*, committing to pushing back the clans in force. Pass 25:0, One abstain

Motion Six: Decisions regarding cease fire effect on mercenary units will be handled within their contracting houses and within the "Seventh House". Pass 22:0
Motion Seven: Any Star League Parliament meeting will be open to any leader, representative or diplomat representing any member unit of the Star League. Pass 20:0

People complaining regarding MS apparently not honoring the ceasefire in motion Five and Six let me make a few points:
1) MS has honored the Marik ceasefire with Liao
2) What exactly does soft ceasefire entail? To me it sounds like this is a tentative and not concrete ceasefire by any means yet
3) There are IS only units who are not honoring this contract at all yet they are not having the finger pointed at them, why? Its easier to point at the elephant in the room right?

Regarding Motion 7, MS does fall under a unit of the Star League in motion Two and Three correct? So how are people saying that oh well... "MS cant be part of this"



Ultimately all RP bs aside MS players will continue to enjoy playing this game and having fun regardless of what happens but we are hardly doing anything outside of this RP laden and apparently ambiguously worded "agreement"

Edited by Necromantion, 09 February 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Necromantion]

Roadbeer, on 09 February 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

According to Hybrid, contacting either of them is not contacting MS, it's only contacting 1/9th respectively.

Anything discussed with them has no assurances, as they only represent one or two units of the whole of "MS", and regardless of whats decided, it sounds like it's up to the individual units (and from some of his more salty posts, players) to decide if that's going to happen or not.

Again, while Marik has had nothing but honest dealings with them in the past, his statements lead me to believe that was only because Marik's goals aligned with "MS"'s goals at the time, not because of any desire of what we really wanted to accomplish.

Roadbeer give over, one individual rubs you the wrong way and you quote the same thing over and over. MS is made up of a bunch of units, Tony is the individual who keeps those units communicating with each other and is the major outward facing figure for MS through which all other unit leaders speak and trust him to not skew their opinions or stance on things.

Hybrid is not Antonious Rex. I do respect and like Hybrid as he is an extremely competent player and fun to play however his sense of humor, and posts on the forums I cannot speak for.

However Roadbeer if you want to continue marching on taking one comment and using it as an excuse to say MS as a whole is unreasonable that is your decision but it just makes you look like the dramatic schoolgirl in highschool screaming "I wont be friends with you if youre friends with him/her"

Just saying it how it is.