594 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

One thing I wish both the TT guys and the Devs would keep in mind is that while variety is good, short TTK is bad, and they have the right idea behind wanting to break up the meta some...I would be willing to bet that most of the player-base would not be happy with all quirks supporting stock builds.

This game is not in any way balanced like TT, not played like TT, we roll no die, armor values are different, it's a FPS. TT was an interesting inspiration for this whole game, I get that, we all do, but they gotta let go of it.

The comp guys will always boat what can be boated, because less weapon groups are more efficient, both for the fingers, and for convergence, range, etc. Everyone else will always want to customize and play what they find fun and cool. Again, I'd bet that most of us do not at all like the stock loadouts on nearly any mech, and would prefer more generalized quirks that allow the chassis to be played as we like.

I'm not saying equalize everything, to the point where any mech takes the best weapon, as long as it can fit, and that's it, but something in the middle. The QKD-5K, for example. With those quirks, i could see running any combination of lasers pretty effectively. I'm going to go for LPL and ML, but with the quirks, could go many ways with it. There's nothing forcing me to do a certain build, and no reliance on garbage stock loadouts.

I generally love ya Bishop, but please, stop acting like you speak for all non-comp guys when you try to push this stock, TT-esque stuff. I get where you're coming from, but I'm forced to disagree, and I know I'm not alone.

Just my thoughts.

[Docta Dakka]

you guys suck for nerfing the wvr-6k.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kodyn, on 13 February 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

One thing I wish both the TT guys and the Devs would keep in mind is that while variety is good, short TTK is bad, and they have the right idea behind wanting to break up the meta some...I would be willing to bet that most of the player-base would not be happy with all quirks supporting stock builds.

This game is not in any way balanced like TT, not played like TT, we roll no die, armor values are different, it's a FPS. TT was an interesting inspiration for this whole game, I get that, we all do, but they gotta let go of it.

The comp guys will always boat what can be boated, because less weapon groups are more efficient, both for the fingers, and for convergence, range, etc. Everyone else will always want to customize and play what they find fun and cool. Again, I'd bet that most of us do not at all like the stock loadouts on nearly any mech, and would prefer more generalized quirks that allow the chassis to be played as we like.

I'm not saying equalize everything, to the point where any mech takes the best weapon, as long as it can fit, and that's it, but something in the middle. The QKD-5K, for example. With those quirks, i could see running any combination of lasers pretty effectively. I'm going to go for LPL and ML, but with the quirks, could go many ways with it. There's nothing forcing me to do a certain build, and no reliance on garbage stock loadouts.

I generally love ya Bishop, but please, stop acting like you speak for all non-comp guys when you try to push this stock, TT-esque stuff. I get where you're coming from, but I'm forced to disagree, and I know I'm not alone.

Just my thoughts.

I don't think I speak for all non comps. I do think I speak for myself and a portion of the playerbase that has just as much right to be heard and play the game as the comp guys, the minmaxxers, the MW4 fan, etc

Read the post directly above yours, for instance. I push for things to try to be balanced, make sense and actually keep the flavor of the dang game they promoted as trying to be as close to TT Btech as possible. I get changes have to happen for that to work. But it sure doesn't mean I have to embrace mechs not even resembling what their Names say they are supposed to be, all the time.

And again, I ain't the one that made the changes. I am defending them. They ain't perfect, some I don't like. A lot don't fit with how I build my mechs (very few of which are stock). But I am tired of people excoriating PGI over their pet build quirks not getting used, or the quirks not being used to simply reinforce existing MEtas, as certain crowds wanted, etc.

A good example would be the Quickdraw? Am I up in arms it has an LRM10 quirk? Not Really. Do I think it's ideal? No. Since it's hardpoints favor it's lasors, those probably should be the focus, and the Missiles more of a generic... because in this case, even though in lore the LRM10 is the primary weapon, it's NOT the best use of the weapons available to compete.

The same goes with a PPC quirk on the VND-1X. In lore that is it's primary weapon. In actual use, it has 2 energy hardpoints, and only one can use a PPC and insufficient hardpoints to back it up well. So it probably is not the best weapon to emphasize.

That is my "agenda". Finding that middle ground where the flavor of MW is intact, but we enhance the viability and people can still go off and do silly or crazy builds. But there is no reason that they should not, use some of the weapons they come with , actually effectively.

Or maybe, I'm just odd that even though I often disagree with Russ, I'm actually trying to be respectful of their plans and see where it goes.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 February 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 February 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Lol. OK.

Everyone else can act like idiots, but I'm the one who is out of line when I reciprocate? Gotcha.

You're needlessly snarky and it's grating on everyone. Posing mainly in sarcasm and rhetorical questions does nothing for the discussion.

Edited by Kevjack, 13 February 2015 - 09:31 AM.

[Kodyn]

Bishop, I did read your post above, right after mine went up, and it's one I can agree with.

However your posts previous to that did not read the same. I think that in reality, you and I do want the same thing, along with many others, but right now, just in this thread, you're running into some communication issues that are muddying the water and hurting the argument.

It happens.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kodyn, on 13 February 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

Bishop, I did read your post above, right after mine went up, and it's one I can agree with.

However your posts previous to that did not read the same. I think that in reality, you and I do want the same thing, along with many others, but right now, just in this thread, you're running into some communication issues that are muddying the water and hurting the argument.

It happens.

What you are seeing is my "meaningful posts" getting buried under a tide of arguments, that yes, after beating my head against the wall, I can admit to being snarky. Oddly enough, though apparently I am the only one on the whole dang thread being snarky and argumentative.


Oh. Wait.

Tell you what, call out the other individuals causing just as much an issue, and we'll call it a day.

Kevjack, on 13 February 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

You're needlessly snarky and it's grating on everyone. Posing mainly in sarcasm and rhetorical questions does nothing for the discussion.

And of course, I'm the only one doing this. Gotcha. (oops, I did it again.)

[Duke Nedo]

People disagree, it's OK.

[LordKnightFandragon]

MikeBend, on 13 February 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

23 pages of arguing, like nobody ever played without the quirks. They are a nice bonus, sure, but they are not an instawin, and they shouldnt be. Take a mech you like, put weapons that you like on it and go shoot some mechs.

Ofc, if the game was made right, quirks would be totally unnecessary anyway....but alas, were playing Call of Duty: Robot Wars (Everquest Buffs) edition.

[Jody Von Jedi]

MikeBend, on 13 February 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

23 pages of arguing, like nobody ever played without the quirks. They are a nice bonus, sure, but they are not an instawin, and they shouldnt be. Take a mech you like, put weapons that you like on it and go shoot some mechs.

Smartest thing anyone has said in this whole thread.

[Quxudica]

Sean Lang, on 12 February 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Got the thumbs up to preview some upcoming changes in 'Phase 2' that come out Feb. 17th, 2015!

I really truly wish quirks focused less on buffing weapons. They could be doing so much more interesting things with them.. things that don't directly inflate the already over-inflated damage issues this game has developed.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 February 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Ofc, if the game was made right, quirks would be totally unnecessary anyway....but alas, were playing Call of Duty: Robot Wars (Everquest Buffs) edition.

Hm, it would be nice, but I do think that is a little too optimistic. Unless all mechs came in "neutral" shapes, then hitboxes and such will always have to be compensated for. Sadly the source material is imperfect, and thus, if the game is going to remotely resemble it, there will be discrepancies, that quirks largely fix.

But if the balance was better from the foundation up, then quirks would be relatively minor, and much fewer and far between.

I'm fine with quirks, bet lets call them what they are, bandaids, and use them as such, to patch up minor issues, instead of trying to hold an arterial bleed together with them.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 February 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 February 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

What you are seeing is my "meaningful posts" getting buried under a tide of arguments, that yes, after beating my head against the wall, I can admit to being snarky. Oddly enough, though apparently I am the only one on the whole dang thread being snarky and argumentative.


Oh. Wait.

Tell you what, call out the other individuals causing just as much an issue, and we'll call it a day.


And of course, I'm the only one doing this. Gotcha. (oops, I did it again.)

Look Bishop, you and I don't see eye to eye on many things. We've also agreed on many things in the past. With this though, you really are being needlessly rude to people that were not rude to you. Kodyn and Kevjack both posted something without attitude, snark, or assumptions. Kodyn specifically tried to give insight on why the thread is the way it is. Your replies to them, however, were sarcastic and unhelpful.

That seriously is a big part of the issue. Just take a step back from the thread for a few hours, and come at it again with fresh eyes.

[Kodyn]

Bishop, I only called you out because I tend to follow your posts and arguments, and I could tell your point was being lost in semantics and "tone".

This is a forum...on the internet...there's going to be a lot of different personalities, often that conflict with one another. It's the ideas that matter, and you have good ones, which were being obscured by needless drama. Not saying it's your fault, their fault, it just happened, and took away from the discussion.

Last I'll say on it, I think we should move back to actual quirk discussion, just didn't want my motives being confused. I'm one of those "I only want this game to do well and stay alive" people, so I like the healthier debates that go on here, and I've watched some of those fuel changes by PGI, so I'd like to see them continue.

[Brody319]

Sorbic, on 13 February 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

lol my Locust 3m SPL got nerfed right after finally giving them a try.

It will be interesting to see if the 9s goes back to it's never used status. On the flipside hopefully we will see some more Orions now. Never bought one but I like the look of those goofy mechs.

the Locust 1E is where you wanna go. 6 SPLs for 25% less heat, Less burn time, More range, and More cooldown.

[Saiphas Cain]

The quirk pass doesn't actually influence much of what I'm doing. I almost feel like I'm not sure of the intent. The 9S was getting old to begin with and now with increased heat gen I won't use it at all. It was already bad at brawling and now will be terrible at it, while losing DPS at the peek and poke. Things will go back to the old ways of clans stripping everyone at range so their so weakened by the time they get into brawl range that quirks don't matter, and order will be restored I guess.

The CTF-IM still doesn't get UAC bonuses despite the 4X already having AC/5 bonuses, which strikes me as rather uninsightful, but I'm still going to use the 3xUAC/5 in the IM because it rocks peoples cockpit like there's no tomorrow and frankly, people hate being shot with it. I'm not going to mount AC/5's on the IM because, as mentioned earlier, the 4X clearly does that better.

I'm a bit disappointed in the Atlas quirk changes though, in that it will change little. So far as the D-DC VS any other atlas the trade off isn't 1 quirk for ECM, it's losing the ability to zombie for ECM. The glaring difference between the D-DC and every other atlas is there are no CT energy slots. Once you lose those side torsos, tanking like you're supposed to, you're a stick, and you're done unless you can convince idiots to keep focusing on you while teammates blast said idiots. The addition of ST structure is useless because you start losing weapons the second your armor is pierced. Keeping that right torso around for another 10 seconds doesn't really make a difference when I lost the AC/20 two minutes ago to a crit. The arm addition is quite underwhelming ( atlas arms aren't there to absorb damage themselves, they're there to buffer and be lost so the stub mitigates incoming damage to the ST's! )
If you're running a 350 which granted, many are, the twist is adequate, but trading the structure for armor on the ST's would make these mechs far better. The benefits of the Atlas do not stack up to the ability to carry cataphract style loadouts, the torso twist bonuses, or the lower profile and arms the crab has. The atlas is rightly terrified of lights even in a brawl, but the crab is not and there's a reason for that. Unless the Atlas gets some outstanding buffs to differentiate it I don't think it will ever outshine the crab in any way except from the ability to carry an ECM module on 1 variant. The atlas tanks better than the crab on paper but in actual fighting the crab does fine. This is because people don't focus fire on one side of the crab like they do the atlas, because it has a lower profile, and because people can rarely tell where the ST's end and the CT begins on a crab.

[3xnihilo]

I am heart broken for my poor locust 3m I cannot imagine why I would want to use a 20 ton mech that increases the duration of my lasers by 10%. Even if it has 2 ams and especially when the 1e exists.

[Sorbic]

Fate 6, on 13 February 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

9S will still be a useful mech, it just has a more defined role. People won't drop with 3 9S's and a Firestarter in CW, they'll do something like 1-2 9S's, and the whole team won't all want to be using 9S's at the same time unless they make a plan to sit around and snipe for a long time and get a kill advantage.

I totally agree about the 3M I just got mine and was just about to elite it...Now it's back to the trash can, at least I only spent like 2.5 mil on it.

I doubt we will see many folks dropping with 2 9S's considering they dropped 25% heat reduction for a mere 15% velocity boost and the folks who do will be the exception instead of the rule. Of course that's never stopped hyperbole... I continually rotate through my mechs so I'll still play it and my JJ 9SE version.


Yeah, I think my 3M will get less love as I work on the 1E. At least they're cheap and I won't have to be standing on top of someone to get them in range. lol

Edited by Sorbic, 13 February 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Ovion, on 13 February 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

They did?
Because prequirked, my 1E with 6 SPL was very good.
Then post quirks, it was better, even with it being SL focused with me keeping SPLs on it.
Now the focus is gone, further buffing it.

Never especially cared for the 3M, but I bet the 4SPL, 1MPL build will still be solid.

Then on top, we get extra internal structure, for 40pts of health each leg with max armour.

I'm happy with this.

The 3M loses 60% range and the 1E 35% range. There won't be any reason to drive the 3M now, when the 1E can do everything better with even more E hardpoints.

[Duke Nedo]

Sorbic, on 13 February 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

I doubt we will see many folks dropping with 2 9S's considering they dropped 25% 7heat reduction for a mere 15% velocity boost and the folks who do will be the exception instead of the rule. Of course that's never stopped hyperbole... I continually rotate through my mechs so I'll still play it and my JJ 9SE version.


Yeah, I think my 3M will get less love as I work on the 1E. At least they're cheap and I won't have to be standing on top of someone to get them in range. lol

Cynical answer, more people own the 3m than the 1e

[Bishop Steiner]

Sorbic, on 13 February 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

I doubt we will see many folks dropping with 2 9S's considering they dropped 25% heat reduction for a mere 15% velocity boost and the folks who do will be the exception instead of the rule. Of course that's never stopped hyperbole... I continually rotate through my mechs so I'll still play it and my JJ 9SE version.


Yeah, I think my 3M will get less love as I work on the 1E. At least they're cheap and I won't have to be standing on top of someone to get them in range. lol

And that should be considered a GOOD thing. When the "go to " mech is so obvious, and the gap between it and the next, so wide, that should indicate how out of whack it is. The problem seems to be the hyperbole, that if a MEch is not "top drawer optimal" it's worthless.

Is it nuts that I actually prefer the 15% velocity boost, and will now be more prone to actually use my 9S? Or that there are others who feel the same? *Shrugs*

But what I like on what I see, overall is not many "clear cut" OMG gotta run quirks. I don't like all of the quirks, but I prefer that to the alternative.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 February 2015 - 11:10 AM.