166 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

wanderer, on 19 February 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

So, Roadbeer.

Once is an accident, twice is deliberate.

Why were FWLM units actively trying to take Dieron? Yesterday, you wanted to wash your hands of the whole thing. Today, even Anders came out of mothballs to try to negotiate. Now, we've just had Kurita need to forcibly remove you from one world and keep large numbers of Marik regulars off another.

Explain yourself. And no, "I was mining tears for my ice sculpturing" is not an explanation.

Thought I made it pretty clear yesterday.

There was a vote over the weekend. The winner was "**** those guys".

[Richter Kerensky]

Thanks for the c-bills.

[wanderer]

Fair enough. I'd thought you considered that sticking your face into a cheese grater and going for that delicate touch shave.

It'd have been nice if our two close allies had, yknow, talked to us before deciding on:



You've just put the Confederation in a situation where the two states that have been in it's best interests are now hostile to one another. This is why you consult your allies before starting a war. We found concordance on slapping Davion around. This has been unilateral. At least given a state of dubious neutrality, we wouldn't have to dread one of you holding antagonizing the other over our heads.

Do you realize the incredibly uncomfortable strategic position the Kurita-Marik conflict places us in since you decided to declare war on an "ungrateful" Combine? I haven't seen something this ugly since the Andurien Secession, and that was an utter flustercluck of Marik-Liao relations.

[Roadbeer]

I wouldn't make more of it than it is.

You're friends with a married couple, you like them both equally but they split up.

You can still be friends with both, just don't get them in the same room until the furniture has been divided to everyones satisfaction.

[stratagos]

Roadbeer, on 19 February 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

I wouldn't make more of it than it is.

You're friends with a married couple, you like them both equally but they split up.

You can still be friends with both, just don't get them in the same room until the furniture has been divided to everyones satisfaction.

I don't think that's quite the metaphor that applies.

You have three middle school kids who have decided to target the kid they consider a bully, and together they're kicking the crap out of him

Suddenly the two biggest kids bump into each other and start fighting,leaving the last kid alone.

The bully shakes his head woozily, as it *was* a pretty effective beatdown, and locks his gaze on the tiny kid.

Who gulps.

[_____]

[NocturnalBeast]

stratagos, on 19 February 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

I don't think that's quite the metaphor that applies.

You have three middle school kids who have decided to target the kid they consider a bully, and together they're kicking the crap out of him

Suddenly the two biggest kids bump into each other and start fighting,leaving the last kid alone.

The bully shakes his head woozily, as it *was* a pretty effective beatdown, and locks his gaze on the tiny kid.

Who gulps.

Except the "bully" was really just a small, stuck-up, rich kid who paid some big kids to be part of his "crew" and help him beat up the three other kids who would not let him join their club. :-). And now the rich kids's "crew" has left to fight for other smaller, richer kids.

Edited by Ed Steele, 19 February 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[stratagos]

Ed Steele, on 19 February 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Except the "bully" was really just a small, stuck-up, rich kid who paid some big kids to be part of his "crew" and help him beat up the three other kids who would not let him join their club. :-). And now the rich kids's "crew" has left to fight for other smaller, richer kids.

Your words would hurt me if I gave a fig about Davion. I'm just here for the mech bays

[Kjudoon]

Meh....


I'd call it 4 brothers where the three younger ganged up on the eldest who'd been acting the bully, an older sister who kept trying to break up the fight because nobody was paying attention to her and poor uncle Bjorn who just got beat up and robbed by the kids across the street who then in tun made inappropriate advances on the older sister and punched the second smallest in the mouth. They then blamed the second biggest for not protecting them and started talking smack when they started getting help from all the brothers, even the woozy eldest brother.

Meanwhile poor uncle Bjorn moaned and groaned from his beating and people, sick of helping th ungrateful and smart mouthed second smallest brother went to help uncle Bjorn instead and get those lousy neighbor kids off of him. And as parting insults flew, the second oldest brother backhands the smartmouth which causes a new fight, and now the neighbor kids are chanting "fightfightfight" kicking the smartmouth occasionally and the youngest brother who was beat the hardest by the older brother and had been busilly taking back all his stolen toys plus a few extra for compensation gulps as the big brother realizes the tables have turned again.


That is more of what I see.

[MischiefSC]

Davions big crime early on was winning. That's it. Everyone attacked everyone. The only thing we did that was so terrible was win. We made the first treaties and alliances and kept to them. The only times we tried to stop attacking Liao, they attacked Davion all the harder. Which is reasonable, in its way. What else they going to do? Take up croquette?

If Marik wants a Clan border they can ghost drop 250 worlds from Steiner, or fight out 10 or 20 worlds from Kurita. Also if Marik is going to get involved in defending Terra (which they seem to take seriously) they have to be in place to do it.

Biggest issue between Marik and Kurita is that there is nothing Kurita has to offer Marik. That's a hard sell. If your treaty is based on 'or we won't attack you'.... I'm sure Liao can appreciate better than most how little appeal that holds.

[wanderer]

MischiefSC, on 19 February 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Davions big crime early on was winning. That's it.

I wish I could show you the ur-history of Davion in online Mechwarrior gaming. It would make the Kurita-Marik anger look like Hello Kitty Online, but alas GEnie's discussion boards are long since beyond even archival recovery.

The closest modern equivalent I could come up with is a smug version of Goonswarm as viewed through a nightmare filter that literally enjoyed paralyzing dozens of players paying by the hour out from being able to play- by taking every world in the faction. Over and over again, forcing map resets multiple times a month. They zerged before there WAS a Zerg, maintaining a 5:1 population vs. any enemy faction and ruthlessly applied their population advantage to obliterate any level of skill.

The response from Davion players at the time was "you should have joined a real faction, ha ha ha!" if you asked why.

[SteelWarrior]

MischiefSC, on 19 February 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Davions big crime early on was winning. That's it. Everyone attacked everyone. The only thing we did that was so terrible was win. We made the first treaties and alliances and kept to them. The only times we tried to stop attacking Liao, they attacked Davion all the harder. Which is reasonable, in its way. What else they going to do? Take up croquette?

If Marik wants a Clan border they can ghost drop 250 worlds from Steiner, or fight out 10 or 20 worlds from Kurita. Also if Marik is going to get involved in defending Terra (which they seem to take seriously) they have to be in place to do it.

Biggest issue between Marik and Kurita is that there is nothing Kurita has to offer Marik. That's a hard sell. If your treaty is based on 'or we won't attack you'.... I'm sure Liao can appreciate better than most how little appeal that holds.

No....your one crime was sending 50 times the numbers of defenders that Liao could stand to hold off by any shot in hell. Your victory was by numerical advantage lol. Liao was in the exact same position Kurita was at the start of CW, getting out dropped by overwhelming numbers. The only difference is Liao and Kurita never stopped fighting back, where as Davion has tossed up their hands and said GG. Havent seen you in a drop in weeks now Mischief

[Abivard]

Kjudoon, on 19 February 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Meh....


I'd call it 4 brothers where the three younger ganged up on the eldest who'd been acting the bully, an older sister who kept trying to break up the fight because nobody was paying attention to her and poor uncle Bjorn who just got beat up and robbed by the kids across the street who then in tun made inappropriate advances on the older sister and punched the second smallest in the mouth. They then blamed the second biggest for not protecting them and started talking smack when they started getting help from all the brothers, even the woozy eldest brother.

Meanwhile poor uncle Bjorn moaned and groaned from his beating and people, sick of helping th ungrateful and smart mouthed second smallest brother went to help uncle Bjorn instead and get those lousy neighbor kids off of him. And as parting insults flew, the second oldest brother backhands the smartmouth which causes a new fight, and now the neighbor kids are chanting "fightfightfight" kicking the smartmouth occasionally and the youngest brother who was beat the hardest by the older brother and had been busilly taking back all his stolen toys plus a few extra for compensation gulps as the big brother realizes the tables have turned again.


That is more of what I see.

Now this is a troll post that manages to insult every single faction in the game roflmbao.

To top it off it is from a person that by their own admission 'will never, ever fight the clans'

He is in a merc or nSL Southern house unit that is flagged FRR but is not FRR loyalist, I really do thank what ever Unit he is in for coming to fight the clans, to bad Kjudoon makes his disdain for everyone else so plain to see.

[Kjudoon]

What you see as disdain, I see as the light opera comedy that is CW now, particularly with this current spat with kurita. No one's a saint or hero here. No cause is righteous. The only villains are those who take this too seriously or use this as a way to abuse others.

My little comedic description was to bring smiles at what I see as a family squabble
, soon mended and shifted over to it's next permutation and map reset now promised by russ.

What you see as disdain, I see as the light opera comedy that is CW now, particularly with this current spat with kurita. No one's a saint or hero here. No cause is righteous. The only villains are those who take this too seriously, have no sense of humor or use this as a way to abuse others.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 February 2015 - 08:06 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

MischiefSC, on 19 February 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Davions big crime early on was winning.

...by numbers.

[An Anime Princess]

wanderer, on 19 February 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

I wish I could show you the ur-history of Davion in online Mechwarrior gaming. It would make the Kurita-Marik anger look like Hello Kitty Online, but alas GEnie's discussion boards are long since beyond even archival recovery.

The closest modern equivalent I could come up with is a smug version of Goonswarm as viewed through a nightmare filter that literally enjoyed paralyzing dozens of players paying by the hour out from being able to play- by taking every world in the faction. Over and over again, forcing map resets multiple times a month. They zerged before there WAS a Zerg, maintaining a 5:1 population vs. any enemy faction and ruthlessly applied their population advantage to obliterate any level of skill.

The response from Davion players at the time was "you should have joined a real faction, ha ha ha!" if you asked why.

you will probably never convince these lukewarm idiots that there is anything wrong in this, it is clearly just a sign that you're bad and need to step your game up

[GargoyleKDR]

wanderer, on 19 February 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

I wish I could show you the ur-history of Davion in online Mechwarrior gaming. It would make the Kurita-Marik anger look like Hello Kitty Online, but alas GEnie's discussion boards are long since beyond even archival recovery.

Wanderer, you should know better than that. Aladdin allowed people to save the GEnie discussion board threads. Here's a example of the House Leader's forum:

************
Category 3, Topic 7 Fri Mar 26, 1993
J.MARSHALL38 [Ghostrider] at 10:12 EST
Sub: House Davion Embassy

This topic is for messages relating to House Davion
8 new messages.
************
------------
Category 3, Topic 7
Message 172 Thu Jun 13, 1996
R.TAFT4 [Gargoyle] at 21:20 EDT




Effective 6/15/96 (or after the FFA has calmed down) House Davion will
be changing it's policy regarding common borders with House Kurita and
House Liao. After consultation with players in House Davion, I have
decided to revert to an Open Border policy.

The Open Border Policy will allow for operations on any planet that is
one jump deep into both our space and the space of the neighboring
Houses. Any operations more that one jump deep will automatically
invoke a state of war between the two states.

What I'm working to establish here is a little confidence in my lower
level commanders that they have the ability and capability to move
units, consider where they are running, and open up a greater
understanding on why they might want to run on one place over another
within their own minds.

I'm willing to discuss this policy with House Kurita and House Liao.
It, obviously, has implications to your own houses that you will want
to work through.

Houses Steiner and Marik are not exempt from this policy, but it is
rather slim that it will come into play with either of you when you
consider the limited planets we share as common.


Gargoyle *K*
House Davion

Edited by GargoyleKDR, 20 February 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[Binbo Gami]

Roadbeer, on 19 February 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

I wouldn't make more of it than it is.

You're friends with a married couple, you like them both equally but they split up.

You can still be friends with both, just don't get them in the same room until the furniture has been divided to everyones satisfaction.

If the FWL has the Davions as allies where does that leave honorable house Liao? One of their long term allies is not fighting anyone (except possibly their other ally) allowing their only real enemy at the moment to concentrate on Liao while Liao`s other ally can`t help much (even though we`d like to ) because we are being pulled in too many directions due to [lot`s of expletives] politics and [even more expletives] general internet sulking. Make no mistake the Mariks have betrayed both their allies in this not just the DC.

Why did Kurita turn away from the clans toward Davion? (which you profess to take offence at)

When CW Started Kurita defended against the clans (admittedly in a very unorganized fashion) and while we faced the threat to the entire IS, the Davion scum took advantage and ghost dropped many worlds (realpolitik ftw) and then **** posted everywhere about how great they were (the irony is not lost) which left a bad taste in many a Kuritan`s mouth. Is it any wonder we turned toward our lesser enemy to A) retake our worlds and hone our skills to face the greater threat, revenge was just the icing on the cake.

What impression does this leave?

Marik is like their new allies/puppet masters Davion, backstabbing untrustworthy opportunists.

signed

one currently unaffiliated Kuritan loyalist


BTW Thanks for the drama, It added a lot of feeling to the game for me (even more than the earlier Davion opportunism). My only regret is that I couldn`t drop due to patcher issues. Keep the fun coming.

Cheers

Plus I find it quite humorous that some Davion called Mischief is prevalent in all these Kurita/ Marik threads.

Edited by Binbo Gami, 20 February 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Maxwell Albritten]

MischiefSC, on 19 February 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Davions big crime early on was winning by using nothing but ghost drops, pretending it was actually our l33t skillz, then mocking everyone around us for not being as l33t as us.

If you're going to whine, at least whine honestly.

[wanderer]

Quote

Wanderer, you should know better than that. Aladdin allowed people to save the GEnie discussion board threads. Here's a example of the House Leader's forum:

Oooh, I want me those records. At this point, I don't think there's any online archive dump of the message boards (and sadly, none of the Liao BBS ones).

Remember the Great Jumping Invasion of Davion?

This guy.