251 replies to this topic

[Grandpaw]

I just love how some people get on these forums and say stuff like "It should be done this way and if other players don't like it they should quit and find another game" is'nt that what caused the shortage of players to start with? Taking options away from players for any reason is just gonna shrink the playerbase even more,do these people really think Piranha is gonna keep the servers up just for them and 25 or 30 of their friends?

[Ratpoison]

Damocles, on 20 February 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Remove the bogus "matchmaker" completely and give us a real lobby system with full choice like "the zone."

Every other option is sub-par.

You're delusional with nostalgia. Every single game would become a horribly stacked 12-0 stomp as the majority of players intentionally try to get on a team with people they know are skilled.

Just allowing map choice alone would destroy any semblance of team balance and ruin this game.

[Kamenjar]

Decent player with 800+ In-match hours here.

Most of BWC is now solo or team dropping on _ANY_ map, in order to get better ELO matching and faster drops. Conquest is as good if not even better nowadays than Skirmish/Assault brawling-wise.

Mixed ELO hurts both the low ELO and high ELO players. High ELO can get frustrated and die early due to low ELO passiveness and counting on the low ELO players to back them up. Then those leftover players die due to death of high ELO.

I still don't know why this game doesn't implement ranks in game visible ranks (*, ^, ^^) based on kills/playtime so that you know who to count on and who to not count on. It would make cohesion much better, as you'd know who is better than you to follow their lead.

All in all, I would give up half of my mechs - not just ability to chose game types - for more closely matched games.

Edited by Kamenjar, 20 February 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[Ratpoison]

Kamenjar, on 20 February 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

I still don't know why this game doesn't implement ranks in game visible ranks (*, ^, ^^) based on kills/playtime so that you know who to count on and who to not count on. It would make cohesion much better, as you'd know who is better than you to follow their lead.

Farmer's paradise.

[SkyHammyr]

Yeah, I gotta say- I want options, too.

I think I would like more Game Modes more.
Assault Mode that isn't a TDM of a different color
Stock Mode
Clan v IS Mode
King of the Hill Mode
The Cool CW Modes added to Public Queue

Just more stuff to do with the Mechs I buy.

[Lily from animove]

tortuousGoddess, on 20 February 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

You're delusional with nostalgia. Every single game would become a horribly stacked 12-0 stomp as the majority of players intentionally try to get on a team with people they know are skilled.

Just allowing map choice alone would destroy any semblance of team balance and ruin this game.

ths the competitive solos make a loadout for any mode, while the random randies make just "a loadout" and so they will be even more at disadvantage than the high elo players are.

the high elo palyers will complain about how all the noobs with them are stupid, not bring the right loadout or whatever. and the low elo players will not have fun and probabyl scream about hax, and broken MM (while no one even exists)

No truly, the more I think about it, the worse the idea seems to be.

[Jetfire]

I would suggest this.

Match a 12v12 based on ELO for best possible match. Then provide 6 map/mode random combo choices for the 24 players to vote on, then weighted roll determines map and mode pair that is launched. Gets the best of both worlds and there are many existing games that use this method.

I would add that ELO should break into tiers, probably just 3 but depending on server pop maybe 4 is viable. The ELO match should be an average but preferentially pulling from the Tier (Copper, Silver, Gold) Ala Star Craft 2. This would mean better matches by not only matching team ELO, but reducing the standard deviation of the ELO's on a given team. (IE a Silver player would drop into a team of mostly silvers against another team of mostly silvers)

Add in the current safety valves to loosen MM targets to fill and you should have the best possible situation. Not perfect, but very good and satisfying.

Edited by Jetfire, 20 February 2015 - 03:17 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

@OP:

I think choice is fine and all, but if the MM needs it to do its job well then I'd rather we continue to limit player choice for public matches.

Of course, I'd love a much more involved matchmaking system, but this isn't the place for such discussions, nor is it anything like a realistic proposition, especially any time soon.

[Kristov Kerensky]

tortuousGoddess, on 20 February 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

You're delusional with nostalgia. Every single game would become a horribly stacked 12-0 stomp as the majority of players intentionally try to get on a team with people they know are skilled.

Just allowing map choice alone would destroy any semblance of team balance and ruin this game.

And you obviously never played when it was done that way. We had no stomps, it was usually a very good drop, since we'd play with people we knew on BOTH sides, organized teams would play other organized teams, friends would play friends and sometimes, random people would play random people who got to chatting in the lobby. Gee, go figure, it was FUN enough that it lasted for quite a few years, over a DECADE no less, MW2, MW2:GBL, MW2:Mercs, MW3, MW3:PM, MW4:Veng, MW4:Mercs..all used that lobby system you think would be so horrible. Yeah, we have no clue what we're talking about here.

Elo sucks for team play, BV sucks for anything not involving random dice rolls and even then it's so damn easy to game that it's a joke. Either give us lobbys and let us set up our own drops or find another way to set up the drops, because this current system is not real viable. Too many newbs who are running Trial Mechs are being dropped with top elite players in customized Champions and Clan Mechs, that has just got to be a ton of fun for everyone involved...

Grandpaw, actually, giving players choices is a bad idea, Russ knows this, he acknowledged it last night, but the problem is, once you GIVE the players choices, it's kind of hard to take them away again without really pissing them off. The loss of any players in this game wasn't due to choices being taken away, since that has NOT happened, it was due to PGI trying to placate the LCD crowd who demand more and more, make this better, that's OP nerf it! and are never ever happy. Hell I'm only still playing this because BF2 is pretty much gone anymore and I can't stand BF3 and BF4, WAY too LCD oriented and console friendly. I play more Destiny and CoD:AW Zombies then I do MWO, and I've dropped a lot more money on MWO then both of those games combined. But this is the ONLY Mech game around, so it's not like I got much choice if I want to play Mechs.

Before too much longer, I'll probably write it off, CW is a joke, I'm not seeing any real progress on the HSR situation, PGI has used a godsbedamned CLOUD system for the MWO game servers, and the crowds around here are...distasteful is being extremely polite.

[Lily from animove]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 February 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

And you obviously never played when it was done that way. We had no stomps, it was usually a very good drop, since we'd play with people we knew on BOTH sides, organized teams would play other organized teams, friends would play friends and sometimes, random people would play random people who got to chatting in the lobby. Gee, go figure, it was FUN enough that it lasted for quite a few years, over a DECADE no less, MW2, MW2:GBL, MW2:Mercs, MW3, MW3:PM, MW4:Veng, MW4:Mercs..all used that lobby system you think would be so horrible. Yeah, we have no clue what we're talking about here.

Elo sucks for team play, BV sucks for anything not involving random dice rolls and even then it's so damn easy to game that it's a joke. Either give us lobbys and let us set up our own drops or find another way to set up the drops, because this current system is not real viable. Too many newbs who are running Trial Mechs are being dropped with top elite players in customized Champions and Clan Mechs, that has just got to be a ton of fun for everyone involved...

Grandpaw, actually, giving players choices is a bad idea, Russ knows this, he acknowledged it last night, but the problem is, once you GIVE the players choices, it's kind of hard to take them away again without really pissing them off. The loss of any players in this game wasn't due to choices being taken away, since that has NOT happened, it was due to PGI trying to placate the LCD crowd who demand more and more, make this better, that's OP nerf it! and are never ever happy. Hell I'm only still playing this because BF2 is pretty much gone anymore and I can't stand BF3 and BF4, WAY too LCD oriented and console friendly. I play more Destiny and CoD:AW Zombies then I do MWO, and I've dropped a lot more money on MWO then both of those games combined. But this is the ONLY Mech game around, so it's not like I got much choice if I want to play Mechs.

Before too much longer, I'll probably write it off, CW is a joke, I'm not seeing any real progress on the HSR situation, PGI has used a godsbedamned CLOUD system for the MWO game servers, and the crowds around here are...distasteful is being extremely polite.

not in mwo, where c-bills matter, and further we now live in the age of epeen, anythign else doesn't matters anymore for most poeple. oeple would porbably even abuse the system for farming c-bills/xp and such.

[Kamenjar]

tortuousGoddess, on 20 February 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

Farmer's paradise.

Let me back that out Kill-based ranks would probably ruin the game. Suggesting ranks based on play time. Like 4-5 ranks tops, divided by 100 hours or so in-game time.

SkyHammr, on 20 February 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

Yeah, I gotta say- I want options, too.

I think I would like more Game Modes more.
Assault Mode that isn't a TDM of a different color
Stock Mode
Clan v IS Mode
King of the Hill Mode
The Cool CW Modes added to Public Queue

Just more stuff to do with the Mechs I buy.

Sure... And then you can get lunch while waiting for a match, or get matched up with a bunch of new players that can't hit the broad side of a barn. There are a lot of players in your or my rank, but it's hard to get them all playing at the same time. That's what the topic is pretty much about and you're not in touch with it, apparently.

Edited by Kamenjar, 20 February 2015 - 03:39 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

Russ mentioned that while in the group queue the average Elo per team was about 180ish, there were still players on that team with as much as a 1000 Elo difference to others.

Until we see hard caps on Elo ranges. Example - Elo 2000 player should never ever ever, end up in a game with an Elo 1000. Not to balance Elo average or otherwise. Give people a message when searching that no suitable match was found, perhaps switch to a different weight class to find a better match.

And even with these changes, say we've lost the ability to pick game mode and are forced to any, Elo can't account for joke builds or people who just want to try a new mech build they aren't used to, so those competitive games aren't exactly going to be guaranteed, only the loss of choice.

Without more data we cannot really answer the question.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 20 February 2015 - 03:39 PM.

[J0anna]

The problem is ELO balancing doesn't work, 2x2000 + 10x600 does not equal 8x800 + 4x900. The 600's will get wiped and the 2000's will get buried under most of the time. Even though in ELO land, this looked like a perfect match. Besides, are we really going to see better matches when we drop the average ELO difference from 38 to 20? We didn't before. The group queue is a different story, but then most groups I'm in select all modes anyway.

Edited by Moenrg, 20 February 2015 - 03:41 PM.

[Ratpoison]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 February 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

And you obviously never played when it was done that way. We had no stomps, it was usually a very good drop, since we'd play with people we knew on BOTH sides, organized teams would play other organized teams, friends would play friends and sometimes, random people would play random people who got to chatting in the lobby. Gee, go figure, it was FUN enough that it lasted for quite a few years, over a DECADE no less, MW2, MW2:GBL, MW2:Mercs, MW3, MW3:PM, MW4:Veng, MW4:Mercs..all used that lobby system you think would be so horrible. Yeah, we have no clue what we're talking about here.

Elo sucks for team play, BV sucks for anything not involving random dice rolls and even then it's so damn easy to game that it's a joke. Either give us lobbys and let us set up our own drops or find another way to set up the drops, because this current system is not real viable. Too many newbs who are running Trial Mechs are being dropped with top elite players in customized Champions and Clan Mechs, that has just got to be a ton of fun for everyone involved...

Grandpaw, actually, giving players choices is a bad idea, Russ knows this, he acknowledged it last night, but the problem is, once you GIVE the players choices, it's kind of hard to take them away again without really pissing them off. The loss of any players in this game wasn't due to choices being taken away, since that has NOT happened, it was due to PGI trying to placate the LCD crowd who demand more and more, make this better, that's OP nerf it! and are never ever happy. Hell I'm only still playing this because BF2 is pretty much gone anymore and I can't stand BF3 and BF4, WAY too LCD oriented and console friendly. I play more Destiny and CoD:AW Zombies then I do MWO, and I've dropped a lot more money on MWO then both of those games combined. But this is the ONLY Mech game around, so it's not like I got much choice if I want to play Mechs.

Before too much longer, I'll probably write it off, CW is a joke, I'm not seeing any real progress on the HSR situation, PGI has used a godsbedamned CLOUD system for the MWO game servers, and the crowds around here are...distasteful is being extremely polite.

Yep, delusional with nostalgia. Perhaps you've forgotten that those games didn't require you to play several hundred drops in order to master a chassis and earn enough money to bring out its full potential. You really are delusional if you think that will have no impact on the choices people will make, but I've come to expect that from you. Private lobby only multiplayer systems are a relic from the past where online play had no form of progression and the only motivator was to have as good of a game as possible. Private matches are already a thing if you want to do organized group drops, so get to it if you're so set on it.

[MauttyKoray]

Zeece, on 20 February 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Russ Asked me to Pose this Questions to the Community during last nights Townhall so that he could get honest and open feedback from y'all on it.

To give context to his question.

Do you want full choices of Mode and Maps at the Expense of Less Competitive Matches (because every choice shrinks the size of the pool of players that the Matchmaker can choose opponents from which means it will have to expand the ELO range to fill a match)

or

Do you want the most Competitive(closet ELO) Matches but at the cost that you can no longer choose maps or modes?

Reference: Current Solo Queue ELO difference 38... Current Group Queue ELO difference 183

Ideally, seeing what map you're dropping on and getting to select from a 4-mech 'ready hangar' to tailor your mech to the map would be more ideal than the selection of maps to play on. I'd rather have Russian Roulette map choice but the ability to choose a mech in order to adapt to it. (You're not going to bring a laser boat mech to a volcano, even in lore...you might have lasers but it would at least be a mixed build.)

[NeoAres]

Respawn was also a great equalizer back in the older days of PuG mechwarrior. The fact that mechs couldn't repair their damage or refill their ammo bins meant that even the best players would fall sooner or later and the noobs had many chances per game to get acquainted with the map, their team, and their opponents. Discos didn't have such an effect either since they'd just get replaced by new people in short order (on the popular servers anyway)

So no, private lobbies are not the answer. The matchmaker is far more efficient and I can get into a game and dropped with two full teams much faster than I ever could in MW4. So what if some of them are awful blowouts, they only last 5-10 minutes anyway.

Edited by NeoAres, 20 February 2015 - 03:50 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

tortuousGoddess, on 20 February 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Yep, delusional with nostalgia. Perhaps you've forgotten that those games didn't require you to play several hundred drops in order to master a chassis and earn enough money to bring out its full potential. You really are delusional if you think that will have no impact on the choices people will make, but I've come to expect that from you. Private lobby only multiplayer systems are a relic from the past where online play had no form of progression and the only motivator was to have as good of a game as possible. Private matches are already a thing if you want to do organized group drops, so get to it if you're so set on it.

Yes, true, we didn't level up our Mechs, but then again, our Mechs worked just like the ones in MWO do unleveled, didn't seem to be an issue for us. We already know the leveling up of Mechs is mostly bs anyway, we have 'skills' we unlock that don't do a damn thing, and we now have quirks that add to the 'skills' on top of that. We don't HAVE any economy, so get rid of all this broken crap and give us a fun game where we can drop in Mechs against other people of our choice, just like all the previous successful versions of MW did. CW is a joke, have you played it at all? I have, a lot, now I avoid it, **** I avoid MWO itself most nights even when I have time to play.

[Ratpoison]

Kristov Kerensky, on 20 February 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Yes, true, we didn't level up our Mechs, but then again, our Mechs worked just like the ones in MWO do unleveled, didn't seem to be an issue for us. We already know the leveling up of Mechs is mostly bs anyway, we have 'skills' we unlock that don't do a damn thing, and we now have quirks that add to the 'skills' on top of that. We don't HAVE any economy, so get rid of all this broken crap and give us a fun game where we can drop in Mechs against other people of our choice, just like all the previous successful versions of MW did. CW is a joke, have you played it at all? I have, a lot, now I avoid it, **** I avoid MWO itself most nights even when I have time to play.

You think speed tweak and double basics are meaningless? Wow, does that ever explain a lot about your terrible opinions. I know you come on here just to cry and whine about your unrealistic expectations, but seriously, give it a rest and go home.

[Mister Blastman]

Water Bear, on 20 February 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Assuming that an Elo difference of 80 is a small number...the terribads are all of your team including you, not the other 11 people.

[Insidious Johnson]

This is a joke right? Competitive play happens in leagues in which opponents sign up for it, train for it, theory-craft for it, and live for it. What Russ is talking about is hitting "launch" in a game which has driven off high level competitive play LONG ago. This is about player retention of drooling mongoloid space tards who would naturally tend to wander off at some point anyways in the direction of something shiny or sweet by giving them the false dilemma of choice vs quality to make them feel more personally invested. Do what you gonna do anyways, Russ. We'll stay... or not...until...