711 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

SHIFTKING!

Got me there - really thought it had
I thought I remembered people complaining about how the Locust cost just as much as the Battlemaster

Which is basically the same argument you are making HERE though.

And on that note...
You still have not answered any of my first points

Let me repeat them for the third time since you are so proud of your own hypocrisy
("have not read" sounding familiar?)

Shar Wolf, on 20 February 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

You are TOTALLY right.

The TWO mechs the ® pack got with DHS (3m saved)
The ONE with an XL (4m saved)
The ONE with Endo (350k saved)
And the TWO with Ferro (one of which is probably going to need to pay extra to take it off)

Rough total saved so far:

7,350,000

Make the IS pack need NO MORE upgrading and extra Cbills than the CW3's

12 with DHS (16 with early buy) (18-24m saved)
12 with FF (16 with early buy)
12 with XL engines (16 with early buy and ignoring balance between clan and IS engines)
9 with Endo (12 with early buy)

Rough total saved so far

18,000,000

to

24,000,000

On DHS ALONE

Yup

You have convinced me!

Should TOTALLY be the same price there

Edit: Added prices

Edit:
Pay for less Grind, Cimarb

Pay for less grind

Edited by Shar Wolf, 21 February 2015 - 03:54 PM.

[Cimarb]

Shar, I did answer that. The cbill cost, both initially or post-purchase, has nothing to do with this discussion. You would understand that if you had read my post.

Here, let me snip that part so it is quicker:

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

When it comes to Packages, it is also thrown out the window because, like Heroes and Champions, the equipment in them does not get considered. The only thing that matters is the price PGI sets for it, which in this case is $20 for IS and $30 for Clan.

For instance, the cost of the Locust Project Phoenix Tier (1) is +$20. 60 tons at ~4.5 million cbills, or $0.33/ton
Compared to cost of the Battlemaster Project Phoenix Tier (4) is +$20. 255 tons at ~22.5 million cbills, or $0.07/ton

The packages have nothing to do with the equipment in the chassis, as all tiers are the exact same cost individually.

Now, instead of calling me names over and over, can you please address those facts?

[Thunder Child]

WANT THE CAULDRON BORN!!!! But do not want her Legs. Seriously, what is up with that. The whole thing with the CB was that she sat low to the ground, and made a hard target. The shadow outline makes her look like she mugged a Madcat for parts.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

<-----The point


















































<--- My head














<---My brain

And yet it does.

Russ as well as several other people from PGI have gone on record several times stating that the initial cost (and cbills saved) is why the clan packs cost more.
Seriously dude - this has come up with every single package


Thank you for yet again comparing apples to oranges and fish to onions by comparing the package pricing to that of heroes and champions.

[Cimarb]

Shar Wolf, on 21 February 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

And yet it does.

Russ as well as several other people from PGI have gone on record several times stating that the initial cost (and cbills saved) is why the clan packs cost more.
Seriously dude - this has come up with every single package


Thank you for yet again comparing apples to oranges and fish to onions by comparing the package pricing to that of heroes and champions.

And yet, even though it keeps getting thrown at you, you continue to let it fly right by you. It has come up with every single package because it is wrong...did you ever consider that?...

[Alaskan Nobody]

For those of you who are curious - this is what a similar package would cost the IS.
(OH WAIT - we just GOT ONE! - and note that I have several times now linked what upgrades that one gives us for free!)


Rounding down - since the IS would only need one (read 1) of each engine....

XL380: 6.2million
XL325: 5.3m
XL270: 4.4m
XL240: 3.9m

® pack got 1 XL engine - a 250 so we can ignore the 240

Subtotal: 15.9 million

12 mechs with DHS 18m
® got 2, so we can ignore 3m

Subtotal: 33.9 million

3x30 ton mechs with Endo: 900k
3x45 ton mechs with Endo: 1350k
3x67 ton mechs with Endo: 1950k

Resistance got 1 35 ton mech with Endo, so we cut 350k

Subtotal: 37.75m

Only light mechs consistently use Ferro - so in the interest of fairness, those are the two we compare

3x30 ton mechs with Ferro 450k

Vs. 0 light mechs with Ferro

Subtotal saved vs the Resistance Pack so far?

More than 38 MILLION Cbills

Anyone ELSE want to try and convince me it should cost the same?

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

And yet, even though it keeps getting thrown at you, you continue to let it fly right by you. It has come up with every single package because it is wrong...did you ever consider that?...

Shar Wolf, on 21 February 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

For those of you who are curious - this is what a similar package would cost the IS.
(OH WAIT - we just GOT ONE! - and note that I have several times now linked what upgrades that one gives us for free!)


Rounding down - since the IS would only need one (read 1) of each engine....

XL380: 6.2million
XL325: 5.3m
XL270: 4.4m
XL240: 3.9m

® pack got 1 XL engine - a 250 so we can ignore the 240

Subtotal: 15.9 million

12 mechs with DHS 18m
® got 2, so we can ignore 3m

Subtotal: 33.9 million

3x30 ton mechs with Endo: 900k
3x45 ton mechs with Endo: 1350k
3x67 ton mechs with Endo: 1950k

Resistance got 1 35 ton mech with Endo, so we cut 350k

Subtotal: 37.75m

Only light mechs consistently use Ferro - so in the interest of fairness, those are the two we compare

3x30 ton mechs with Ferro 450k

Vs. 0 light mechs with Ferro

Subtotal saved vs the Resistance Pack so far?

More than 38 MILLION Cbills

Anyone ELSE want to try and convince me it should cost the same?

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

And yet, even though it keeps getting thrown at you, you continue to let it fly right by you. It has come up with every single package because it is wrong...did you ever consider that?...

Really reading this
Seriously - I am sitting here laughing at the stupidity of the logic here

So just because it keeps coming up means that it is right?

Might want to actually think about what you are saying.

I know I am
And I am seriously laughing at the amount of brain damage you must have given yourself coming up with that idea.


Because by that "logic", all I have to do to make cigarettes healthy is keep complaining that they should be.

Edit:
Rather like the "bait and switch" garbage that kept coming up about the paint schemes for the (L) mechs
(You promised up angels!)

Or have you (oh so conveniently! AGAIN) forgotten that as well?

Edited by Shar Wolf, 21 February 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[Deathlike]

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

And yet, even though it keeps getting thrown at you, you continue to let it fly right by you. It has come up with every single package because it is wrong...did you ever consider that?...

See, the thing is, it's never obvious, so it's lost on him.

For the sake of argument, the Locust was in a new package (just humor me) for $20. Same deal as the Tier 1 Phoenix Pack.

In a future deal, it could be $20 in a Panther pack (which is the case with the Resistance Pack).

Just based on logic, the $20 isn't really the same between the two packs, even if the bonus gifts are identical. The only thing that happen to be the same is that they are both IS Lights. That's it.

If a hypothetical $20 Firestarter pack were to surface (just humor the idea), you can see the problematic value barrier between those deals (based on what we know of the chassis). It's genuinely not the same, even if they are "technically" in the same "classification" of IS Lights.

The only ironic thing that would be the same is the "modeling aspect", but then again it would never honestly justify the Clan Light being $30. The modeling costs more or less the same per chassis that is created.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 February 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Deathlike, on 21 February 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

See, the thing is, it's never obvious, so it's lost on him.

The irony here is astounding

PGI has been consistent on this one

The whole method is pay to avoid the grind
And has been advertised as such since day 1

When people FIRST complained about the pricing of the clan mechs - that was the answer PGI gave

You do not like it?
Only way PGI is going to change it is if it does not sell at that price

So do not buy it.

Get your other clan friends to not buy it

Get a boycott going!

Me?
I am still looking at that and thinking "38 million Cbills in upgrades alone I do not have to pay for!"

So tell me again what I am missing?

Edited by Shar Wolf, 21 February 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[Cimarb]

Shar, you really do say a whole lot of dumb stuff. If you are banning people still, feel free to add me to the list.

[NRP]

Somebody help me out here. Is the Executioner supposed to be good? It looks kind of ugly. The only mech that seems appealing to me at first glance is the light (mainly because of speed). Are any of the others supposed to be good?

Edited by NRP, 21 February 2015 - 05:04 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

If you are banning people still, feel free to add me to the list.

Sorry Cimarb, but I am not a mod.

Banning people is not within my power
I CAN ignore you though, and since you have yet to actually bring up any logical counter arguments to my points I am seriously considering it.

Thank you for the vote of confidence though, and have a dictionary.
Might help your next discussion - or the next time you want to ask a forum user to act as only a moderator can.

[Cimarb]

Shar Wolf, on 21 February 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Sorry Cimarb, but I am not a mod.

Banning people is not within my power
I CAN ignore you though, and since you have yet to actually bring up any logical counter arguments to my points I am seriously considering it.

Thank you for the vote of confidence though, and have a dictionary.
Might help your next discussion - or the next time you want to ask a forum user to act as only a moderator can.

As long as it gets you to stop going in circles when you do not understand the argument, I am all for it.

[fireball 4]

Quote

Somebody help me out here. Is the Enforcer supposed to be good? It looks kind of ugly. The only mech that seems appealing to me at first glance is the light (mainly because of speed). Are any of the others supposed to be good?

the panther in cw can be like a light thunderbolt that can fly! enforcer can be ok good for how heavy it is in cw. all and all not to bad

[Deathlike]

Shar Wolf, on 21 February 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

The irony here is astounding

PGI has been consistent on this one

The whole method is pay to avoid the grind
And has been advertised as such since day 1

When people FIRST complained about the pricing of the clan mechs - that was the answer PGI gave

You do not like it?
Only way PGI is going to change it is if it does not sell at that price

So do not buy it.

Get your other clan friends to not buy it

Get a boycott going!

Me?
I am still looking at that and thinking "38 million Cbills in upgrades alone I do not have to pay for!"

So tell me again what I am missing?

I don't think you're understanding. Let's ignore the actual grind for a moment or even the "pay to get stuff earlier". We're talking about VALUE for the actual money spent.

For instance, every 35 ton IS hero has the same MC cost right? So, wouldn't it appropriate for each 35-ton IS hero be useful compared to each other? They'll be different in their own way and that's OK but the idea is that they are all equally effective for the real money you pay for them.

Let's look at the 35-ton Champions that are available. Champions are based on the base cost of the mech in question. By extension of that rule, the Champion Raven-3L is the most expensive 35-ton Champion based on that. This has to do with the base cost of the 3L's 210XL engine, inflating the C-bill price AND MC price. As a consequence, the Cataphract-3D's MC price is out of whack, especially given the pricing of the mech when the Champion build comes with a 280 STD engine over the base mech's 280XL engine. It's just bad value and not everyone sees it for what it is.


PGI is consistent in the pricing for the most part... the only actual exception is the Saber Pack pricing of the Phoenix Pack.

Going $40 on the base pack gets to a Locust and Shadowhawk. For $50, you can get the Locust, Griffin, and Wolverine. This is a technical "departure" from their own base model (probably due to getting 2 mediums since $60 gets to a Locust, Shadowhawk, and Thunderbolt). So, it is what PGI prices it to be, but the VALUE to a person isn't ever really "the same" when you objectively look at what the pricing is to the mechs that are being sold.

That is Cimarb's primary argument (at least a piece of it).

So, if a Firemoth was in a future Clan Pack, it's never going to have the same "value" as a Kitfox or even the future Arctic Cheetah that will still cost everyone $30 to get.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 February 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Cimarb, on 21 February 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

TROLOLOLOLO!
I HAZ NU PINT BURT WHINING!!!
DUZ NUT LIC PRISE!!!

SO SAD

I have had one counter argument.

You have yet to actually COUNTER it - other than saying that you do not agree.

So why do we not leave it at that - and maybe you can actually regrow the brains you ONCE had - and...

Oh...

I do not know....

Make a suggestion or support someone else who has already made it?

Or...
Open a ticket?

Or GASP!
Start a boycott?!

As opposed to sitting here whining about how you do not like the price?
How you do not think it is fair?
How everyone who is disagreeing with you is making "stupid comments"?
(Because that ALWAYS proves your point)

Or actually DO something other than whine in the main forum about it?
























.....NAW
Those would actually take EFFORT
Let alone potentially get results!
Much safer, smarter, and more awesome!! to sit here whining about it.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Deathlike, on 21 February 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

I am well aware of his argument - even if he lacks the ability to actually utilize the correct words to communicate it.

Does not change the fact that it is what it is.

You NEVER know the actual value of a pre-order item.

Only mech so far (out of how many now?) people have accurately guessed the value on was the Timberwolf.

PGI has - MANY TIMES - given their reasoning for their pricing method.

If you disagree - there are MANY ways do deal with it - AND get the results you want!

Cimarb and the rest of you however
Are choosing to sit here and spend 10+ pages whining about it instead.


NONE of that however - means that the pricing is - in fact - unfair.

We are getting much much more in the way of Cbill value out of the clan packs - and so they cost more

Does that mean every clan pack should cost the same?
I do not know - but that has not been what you have all been arguing

What you HAVE been arguing is that the clan packs should cost the same as the IS packs
And the answer to that is NO

Not while they are getting more in the way of Cbill value.

[fireball 4]

all of yall!
its the omni pods.
its like buying 1 and 1/2 mechs imoa
but on the other hand its alot of money
just buy them for what ever reson you want or dont buy them
stop worying about every one else spending thier money

[NRP]

Crap, I meant Executioner, not Enforcer. Is the Executioner supposed to be any good?

Edited by NRP, 21 February 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[fireball 4]

NRP, on 21 February 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Crap, I meant Executioner, not Enforcer.

all i know is that the shadow cat was a ton.. no... 100tons of fun to look at and play in mw 4 vengeance
the good old days....

[Deathlike]

Shar Wolf, on 21 February 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

If you disagree - there are MANY ways do deal with it - AND get the results you want!

TBH, the results won't get people to buy more over time. I know some will regardless, but the policy itself can be a turnoff for people.

Also, the results aren't what I wanted at all.

You can't say that is true for everyone either as speaking for everyone is a bad idea.