199 replies to this topic

[Leeroy Mechkins]

All the new players usually go to the IS factions simply because they cannot afford clan mechs or don't have them.

So the IS keeps losing game after game because they have all the new players and the clan has usually majority or all experienced players.

Its simple logic. If you have experienced basketball players and newbies, and you want an even game of basketball, you split the experienced players and newbies equally.

In MWO, the experienced players and newbies are NOT split equally. All the newbies go to one side, IS. So that side keeps losing and they lose interest in the game.

Before MWO is added to Steam this better be addressed. Otherwise MWO CW is not going to retain too many of the newcomers.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 February 2015 - 02:31 AM.

[dervishx5]

[Black Ivan]

The other things might be that the new players expect CW to be a fun afair like the one in World of Tanks. Instead they are frown into shark waters where fun is only for the winners, since CW makes no fun when loosing.

[Jakob Knight]

There are probably two reasons.

First is that they are new players to the game, and don't have the experience or resources to achieve victory in CW when it is intentionally populated with the players with the highest experience and available resources (CW was intended to be the 'hard mode/RP' side of the game). I've never seen a game where new players who jump into the endgame content have a high rate of satisfaction at their success rate, and indeed, MWO is rather unique in not only allowing new players to do so at all, but giving them some fairly good 'gear' in the form of starter units that have a fair chance of being useful to the team in that content. Most MMOs that let new players enter end-game/hard mode areas don't provide anything to the players to deal with what they will face, making it not just probable but certain they will fail until they have end-game gear and experience.

Second is that many new players are likely solo players who do not have or do not want teams to play alongside. This is going to be a big disadvantage in a part of the game where teamwork is a vital part of succeeding, moreso than the Public side of the game. Jumping right into CW without a team you can work with is cutting your legs off before you enter the racing field. You might still succeed, but you are facing much longer odds.

Combine both of the above, and it's likely the new player will face failure after failure, and conclude that CW is bad and not worth their time. Rather than understand that it may be very fun and challenging when they are more experienced in the game, they will only see the results handed to them and decide the problem isn't with them but the game.

As far as the Clan vrs IS debate goes, it is still very clear that a well-coordinated Clan force will almost always win over a well-coordinated IS force because the advantages of Clan technology outweigh the Inner Sphere units by too many areas, even with the quirks (and we've seen that a mech like the TDR-9S that reaches parity with them will be nerfed until it isn't). Until there are some across-the-board negative quirks put in that bring Clan mechs down to the level of their Inner Sphere equivalents, that is what will be the case.

Of course, the recent comment during the Town Hall meeting about granting the Inner Sphere force a tonnage advantage (10 tons is laughable, as it makes no real difference compared to the major advantages given by Clantech, but I am hopeful it will increase at some point) would seem to indicate the Devs have abandoned their viewpoint that Clantech can be made equal but not better than Inner Sphere tech, so it may be the Clans will remain without nerfing and the Inner Sphere will simply have to make do with whatever they can get from their quirks.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 22 February 2015 - 05:20 AM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Jakob Knight, on 22 February 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

There are probably two reasons.

First is that they are new players to the game, and don't have the experience or resources to achieve victory in CW when it is intentionally populated with the players with the highest experience and available resources (CW was intended to be the 'hard mode/RP' side of the game). I've never seen a game where new players who jump into the endgame content have a high rate of satisfaction at their success rate, and indeed, MWO is rather unique in not only allowing new players to do so at all, but giving them some fairly good 'gear' in the form of starter units that have a fair chance of being useful to the team in that content. Most MMOs that let new players enter end-game/hard mode areas don't provide anything to the players to deal with what they will face, making it not just probable but certain they will fail until they have end-game gear and experience.

Second is that many new players are likely solo players who do not have or do not want teams to play alongside. This is going to be a big disadvantage in a part of the game where teamwork is a vital part of succeeding, moreso than the Public side of the game. Jumping right into CW without a team you can work with is cutting your legs off before you enter the racing field. You might still succeed, but you are facing much longer odds.

Maybe you are not seeing the point.

Imagine there are 100 newbies and 100 experienced players.
Put 50 experienced 50 poor players in each side and it is solved.
See, the skill level of the players can easily be balanced, just distribute the poor and good players evenly.

The same thing about solo and unit players.
If there is a pool of say 100 unit players and 100 solos.
If there are 50 unit players and 50 solos in each side, it is solved.
The problem comes when one side or the other has majority unit players and the other side majority solo.

So you see the problem is not that there are new or weak players, or that some like to play units and some solo.
The problem is that these different types are not DISTRIBUTED evenly!

In other words, the DISTRIBUTION OF SKILFUL PLAYERS AND UNITS AMONG FACTIONS is the main problem, not that there are some skilful and some not. Or whether or not some like to play solo or in units.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 February 2015 - 05:48 AM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Another way to put it is that the whole economic system of the game ENSURES that IS is much worse than Clan.
By funneling all the new players to IS instead of spreading then equally across Clan and IS.

This issue cannot be fixed by players learning to play better or developing teamwork or whatever.
This is a systemic problem that can ONLY be solved by devs!

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 February 2015 - 05:49 AM.

[Insects]

The problem is there is no warning or description saying "Hey this is the hardmode for experienced players with formed teams, solo queue with skill sorting is that Play Now button!".
So people solo drop in CW in trial mechs, and its hell and makes them think the game is stupid.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

If an equal number of people solo drop in CW in trial mechs IN IS AND IN CLAN, there would not be an issue.
The problem is that most of the solo droppers in trial mechs ARE IN IS.

The problem is equal distribution of player types to factions.
There are many types of players, the problem is concentration of the more seasoned players to the clans and the newer ones to IS.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 22 February 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[Phoebe]

Yeah but to apply some kind of elo in cw we need at least 10 times more players, because right now sometimes it feels hard just to find and start a game. Increasing rewards in cw so that more people go play here could help, but I don't think it's enough.

I think new players should not be able to play cw, they need to learn to play to some degree and then get the option, like in lol the ranked games are available only when you reach level 30.

[Triordinant]

Maybe they should let new players into CW only after they've played 100 matches or something.

[HARDKOR]

Or limit it to no more than 6 solo droppers per planet.
Or make it so you must have 1000+ ELO to join a faction at all.

[xe N on]

Simple solution.

DON'T DROP IN CW!

Let CW die out on IS side.

[Vassago Rain]

I remember when I made this huge thread about how it takes hundreds of millions of c-bills to make a drop dec, and everybody told me that CW was gonna be amazing, and there was no grind in the game.

[HARDKOR]

xe N on, on 22 February 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Simple solution.

IF YOU SUCK, YOU HATE TEAMWORK, OR YOU ARE A SLOW LEARNER DON'T DROP FOR THE IS.

fixed that for you. Clan trial mechs are better anyways.

[Quick n Fast]

@OP
Stop making excuses about why your faction got wiped off them map...

when ur bad ur just bad.. dont dig urself/faction a deeper hole..

[YCSLiesmith]

Jakob Knight, on 22 February 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

As far as the Clan vrs IS debate goes, it is still very clear that a well-coordinated Clan force will almost always win over a well-coordinated IS force because the advantages of Clan technology outweigh the Inner Sphere units by too many areas, even with the quirks (and we've seen that a mech like the TDR-9S that reaches parity with them will be nerfed until it isn't).

This is total nonsense. The clans are superior at range and their laser game is dominant, the IS is superior brawling and their lights utterly outclass anything in the clan arsenal.

[Vassago Rain]

YCSLiesmith, on 22 February 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

This is total nonsense. The clans are superior at range and their laser game is dominant, the IS is superior brawling and their lights utterly outclass anything in the clan arsenal.

The clans are getting an IS tier light, so all IS lights are gonna be awful very soon.

[YCSLiesmith]

Vassago Rain, on 22 February 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

I remember when I made this huge thread about how it takes hundreds of millions of c-bills to make a drop dec, and everybody told me that CW was gonna be amazing, and there was no grind in the game.

It takes considerably less than 100 million cbills to make a drop deck that wins matches. NKVA wins often trial mechs.

[Yokaiko]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 22 February 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

All the new players usually go to the IS factions simply because they cannot afford clan mechs or don't have them.

So the IS keeps losing game after game because they have all the new players and the clan has usually majority or all experienced players.

Its simple logic. If you have experienced basketball players and newbies, and you want an even game of basketball, you split the experienced players and newbies equally.

In MWO, the experienced players and newbies are NOT split equally. All the newbies go to one side, IS. So that side keeps losing and they lose interest in the game.

Before MWO is added to Steam this better be addressed. Otherwise MWO CW is not going to retain too many of the newcomers.

That is simple, no CW UNLESS you have a full dropdeck of owned mech OR in a team of 6 or better.

Done.

[HARDKOR]

Vassago Rain, on 22 February 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

The clans are getting an IS tier light, so all IS lights are gonna be awful very soon.

Cheer up dude, grasshopper might be the IS Timberwolf.