199 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

ugrakarma, on 27 February 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

FS9 - Overkill quirks on MPL and SPL
Grid Iron - Overkill quirk on gauss rifle
Thunderbolt - Overkill quirks on ER PPC and MPL
Stalker - Brought to level

At the moment IS lights are superior to clan lights. Quirks brought some IS chassis to competitive level. And I mean some by overly done quirks when the problem lies in the weapon system. Like who the f brings ER PPC to a match unless it's a TDR? NO ONE. Is it the fault of the mech or the fault of a broken weapon system??

Paul broke PPCs for everyone last year. Before he took the bat to them they were all over the place.

Don't hate the players, hate the game.

[DaFrog]

No videogame worth its salt has ever sacrificed fun for realism. Also DOOM is the best fps of all time so I dont really understand why you're acting like it is a bad thing to emulate it



NO video game worth its salt..... Hmmmmm. Do you want me to start a list or would you like to cancel your statement? Who said anything about sacrificing realism for fun. Reality is fun. I'll leave it at that, the smart ass that I am could really drag this in the gutter.

As a closing statement, read my signature. Better, I'll copy it. They'll get a lot of my money the minute I can kick a locust. Now tell me that would not be real, fun, and real fun.

Edited by DaFrog, 01 March 2015 - 12:12 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Because if I wanted to play doom, i'd have played it instead. I want more simulation which involves thinking and strategy as this game was sold to me as being. FPS games generally are boring and leave me nauseated.

I'm sick of derp derp pew pew twitch twitch. I quit buying those games in the early 2000s.

[An Anime Princess]

DaFrog, on 01 March 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

NO video game worth its salt..... Hmmmmm.

correct

Kjudoon, on 01 March 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

Because if I wanted to play doom, i'd have played it instead. I want more simulation which involves thinking and strategy as this game was sold to me as being. FPS games generally are boring and leave me nauseated.

I'm sick of derp derp pew pew twitch twitch. I quit buying those games in the early 2000s.

this isn't a turn-based strategy. faster reflexes are important, and that will always be the case until you remove the element of real-time from the equation. this game is already much slower than most popular online shooters by a very large margin. if you're regularly in positions where you die instantly, then that's a failure of strategic thinking and positioning

[DaFrog]

An Anime Princess, on 01 March 2015 - 12:42 AM, said:

correct



this isn't a turn-based strategy. faster reflexes are important, and that will always be the case until you remove the element of real-time from the equation. this game is already much slower than most popular online shooters by a very large margin. if you're regularly in positions where you die instantly, then that's a failure of strategic thinking and positioning

Let me see, Assasin's Creed, Battle Field 4, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon....

Physics and real world predominatess in war. Napoleon got his whole army sunk on a frozen lake in Russia...

[Vassago Rain]

DaFrog, on 01 March 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

Let me see, Assasin's Creed, Battle Field 4, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon....

Physics and real world predominatess in war. Napoleon got his whole army sunk on a frozen lake in Russia...

What does Napoleon have to do with Proton placing his shots 0.4 seconds faster than the second fastest player in the game, and how would Napoleon and frozen lakes prevent Proton from putting PPCs and AC10s into the enemy faster than they can react?

[DaFrog]

Vassago Rain, on 01 March 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

What does Napoleon have to do with Proton placing his shots 0.4 seconds faster than the second fastest player in the game, and how would Napoleon and frozen lakes prevent Proton from putting PPCs and AC10s into the enemy faster than they can react?

No idea who Proton is, first of all. I will assume that pilot is the Ace of MWO. Not being disrespectful, just don't care about personal virtual exploits.
Now, take your mech, with that PPC, run over slippery ice, suddenly try to turn right to be able to fire that PPC shot at someone, on the fly, and risk finding yourself on your arse because you happened to have lost your footing on said slippery surface. Pretty hard to aim a shot .4 seconds faster than the second fastest player.

If you were a SEAL, or a SWAT member, they would probably tell you that you do not run on ice with a loaded gun and hope to turn a corner and shoot dead center at your target...

I'll go one further, but it is not the topic of discussion: water. Locust ( mist lynx ), runs into water at 170 kph and does not break stride Try it yourself. Another one further: going into water with part of your inner core or mechanism exposed run the risk of finding said part ruined by infiltrating water. Real world again.

Now if anyone wants to start a new thread regarding the laws of physics and it's effect on targeting skills, I'll be more than happy to oblige. Let's keep this one on topic. :-)

[An Anime Princess]

DaFrog, on 01 March 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

Let me see, Assasin's Creed, Battle Field 4, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon....

Physics and real world predominatess in war. Napoleon got his whole army sunk on a frozen lake in Russia...

those are all very arcadey titles that sacrifice loads of realism for fun factor, with the original rainbow six being the only potential outlier in the group (and you can still cheese that game insanely hard)

DaFrog, on 01 March 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

Now, take your mech, with that PPC, run over slippery ice, suddenly try to turn right to be able to fire that PPC shot at someone, on the fly, and risk finding yourself on your arse because you happened to have lost your footing on said slippery surface. Pretty hard to aim a shot .4 seconds faster than the second fastest player.

I'll go one further, but it is not the topic of discussion: water. Locust ( mist lynx ), runs into water at 170 kph and does not break stride Try it yourself. Another one further: going into water with part of your inner core or mechanism exposed run the risk of finding said part ruined by infiltrating water. Real world again.

these all boil down to map knowledge and reflexes. a faster player is going to recognize, visually, the threats on-screen from both environmental and enemy sources and respond accordingly. a player with better map awareness is going to keep from placing him or herself in situations where their only option is to flee onto a pond and slip, or whatever. besides, what kind of frozen pond doesn't break beneath a 55-ton (or whatever) giant robot that is constantly nearly boiling-hot to the touch? do mech feet have more grip than rubber-soled shoes? does anyone really care?

why not just field hundreds of MBTs with ac/20 and LLs instead of these stupid mechs, anyway? battletech implodes under an eye looking for realism so why bother

[Batch1972]

Because it's ****.

God I'm angry. They've had 2, no nearly 3 years to to come up with a workable Community Warfare platform. We get 3 maps and 3 game modes - one of each in the last month. Oh and a nice pretty map of the IS - which is bloody wrong. Tamar in the FRR for gods sake.
For me problems are:
1. It's supposed to be end content but someone that hasn't played a game can just join
2. It's supposed to be end content but you can drop it trial mechs
- oh is it supposed to be end content? I don't know cos PGI have decided to not communicate via the medium of their forum
3. IS & Clan mechs are still not balanced - quirks and ghost heat are not working
4. CW queue matchmaker tends to group solo players together. Itself not a problem but becomes huge when they then get dropped against organised teams
5. Solo players - either cater for them in CW or make it unit only (with a min number people in a unit)
6. Too long to create games
7. 12 man light rushes
8. No VOIP pre game - which means groups can custom config their mechs before they even join a match - a huge advantage.
9. Too few maps
10. Too few game modes
11. No role warfare - hey why don't you do a challenge where you get points for spotting and narc. Or a medium weekend

My big concern is that PGI lacks the resources to develop both CW and the standard game side by side. They risk losing the smaller number of team players if they don't develop CW but if they neglect the basic game they'll lose new/casual gamers. People will not pay for the same tired old stuff and unfortunately all I see them doing is flogging more mechs every month like some intergalactic Arthur Daley. Non CW content has been poor so far this year.

I've stuck with this game pretty much since closed beta. I've invested a fair bit of money. I've put up some cash for clan 3 but I'm getting tired of the lack of long term vision.

Edited by Batch1972, 01 March 2015 - 02:16 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Triordinant, on 22 February 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

Maybe they should let new players into CW only after they've played 100 matches or something.

Agreed.

Maybe "new players" should not jump right into "end game" when they clearly are not ready for it.

A "new players' dropping into CW with Trial mechs should and will get slagged.

[YCSLiesmith]

DaFrog, on 01 March 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

No videogame worth its salt has ever sacrificed fun for realism. Also DOOM is the best fps of all time so I dont really understand why you're acting like it is a bad thing to emulate it



NO video game worth its salt..... Hmmmmm. Do you want me to start a list or would you like to cancel your statement? Who said anything about sacrificing realism for fun. Reality is fun. I'll leave it at that, the smart ass that I am could really drag this in the gutter.

As a closing statement, read my signature. Better, I'll copy it. They'll get a lot of my money the minute I can kick a locust. Now tell me that would not be real, fun, and real fun.

Yeah, give me an example of a game that is good, and also took out fun features in favor of realistic features that made the game less fun. I'll wait. Realism is all very well but fun, good mechanics are more important.

DaFrog, on 01 March 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

Let me see, Assasin's Creed, Battle Field 4, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon....

Physics and real world predominatess in war. Napoleon got his whole army sunk on a frozen lake in Russia...

lmao none of these games sacrifice fun for realism. Except Assassin's Creed, I guess, and even that doesn't trade fun for realism so much as dump both fun and realism in a haystack from a thousand feet up

[YCSLiesmith]

Honestly I expected you to go to a hardcore mapgame and we could have an interesting discussion of how Europa Universalis or Hearts of Iron or one of the more exotic historical boardgames chooses to focus on hyper-realism with supply lines and troop transport and such. And I'd be able to point out the sacrifices that even those games made in exchange for making them playable.

but you go with Ghost Recon instead? I mean, good lord.

[ThrashInc]

Devils advocate, but past the most recent call of duty games, FPS were about 70-80% strategy at competitive levels.

In fact, while some players could rely on twitch/skill, the other half of the players relied on map knowledge, predictive analysis, and experience. You have never had to be 420bluntscopez to be good at console or PC FPS games at a competitive level because brains could get you there just as easily.

[YCSLiesmith]

GundamStompyRobotChurchy, on 01 March 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

Devils advocate, but past the most recent call of duty games, FPS were about 70-80% strategy at competitive levels.

In fact, while some players could rely on twitch/skill, the other half of the players relied on map knowledge, predictive analysis, and experience. You have never had to be 420bluntscopez to be good at console or PC FPS games at a competitive level because brains could get you there just as easily.

You certainly did have to have a basic level of twitch skill to be competitive in unreal or quake or whatever. Knowing the map was something everyone could do to raise their game, but having the fundamental skill to click on specific parts of moving targets and move quickly so you dont get clicked on yourself was never a thing you could do without.

[MHMarques]

People get mad with CW because it is a game mode where anyone can drop despite the skill level, so it is not the best way for new players start playing the game, and even with skill level control, the public drops will be harsh to the new player, because the learning curve of MWO is a bit hard to new gamers.

CW is Hardcore mode, if you want a real challenge, the CW war is the answer, but if you want something leveled and easy to learn, MAYBE, public drop may be your way, after you spend sometime at training grounds, making sure you know how to move around, aim and shoot.

By the way, playing with the clans not always is sure that you'll win, i've droped in many planets and battles against Inner Sphere teams (not 12 men groups) that it wans't easy and not always a certain win.

[CyclonerM]

YCSLiesmith, on 01 March 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Yeah, give me an example of a game that is good, and also took out fun features in favor of realistic features that made the game less fun. I'll wait. Realism is all very well but fun, good mechanics are more important.

I do not sure about any fun feature taken out, but ArmA is much more focused on realism than most others FPS games, and it is very interesting to play. A great break from most other fast and casualish games around here. I actually have played only two ArmA 2 demos, I will not buy it because i want to focus on MWO right now and if i bought it i would probably look for a group to play with, i would get into missions and team stuff and would lose my life forever

Quote

lmao none of these games sacrifice fun for realism. Except Assassin's Creed, I guess, and even that doesn't trade fun for realism so much as dump both fun and realism in a haystack from a thousand feet up

That is a funny one, someone on youtube did the math and calculated that the gravity in the AC world is apparently different from 9.81 m/s2.

Anyway, being able to kill 20 guards by yourself may be considered unrealistic, however that could also be due to the less-than-great AI .. You know, attacking one by one when you have such a numeric advantage is not the way to do it :\

Edited by CyclonerM, 01 March 2015 - 07:59 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Most of my complaints of CW come from lack of player direction. I would like for us to be the ones selecting planets. Also, a better defined difference between loyalist and mercs. Despite that, however, I enjoy CW.

CyclonerM, on 01 March 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

That is a funny one, someone on youtube did the math and calculated that the gravity in the AC world is apparently different from 9.81 m/s2.

But hey, that's just a theory...

[DaFrog]

An Anime Princess, on 01 March 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

those are all very arcadey titles that sacrifice loads of realism for fun factor, with the original rainbow six being the only potential outlier in the group (and you can still cheese that game insanely hard)



these all boil down to map knowledge and reflexes. a faster player is going to recognize, visually, the threats on-screen from both environmental and enemy sources and respond accordingly. a player with better map awareness is going to keep from placing him or herself in situations where their only option is to flee onto a pond and slip, or whatever. besides, what kind of frozen pond doesn't break beneath a 55-ton (or whatever) giant robot that is constantly nearly boiling-hot to the touch? do mech feet have more grip than rubber-soled shoes? does anyone really care?

why not just field hundreds of MBTs with ac/20 and LLs instead of these stupid mechs, anyway? battletech implodes under an eye looking for realism so why bother

Then don't call it Mechwarrior Online and rip off battletech designs. Call it Robotech and/or Heavy Gear, or even better. Mechaggeddon. I got in this game because of the name and it's promises The mech rendering is stellar, if not better than the original, but to a lot of people who got in with the same expectations I did regarding realism and respect of what was established 30 years ago, it is way short.

I do agree a good player will overcome some aspects. But you fail to see the big picture and take every argument literally.
So here are bunch to keep you posting for the next few days.

Firing under water.
Hull Breach.
Skidding.
Physical Attacks.
Death From Above.
Building destruction.
Hiding inside a building.
Laser reflexion off of water.
Shell ricochet.
LRM misfires.
Falling damage if the building or bridge your standing on top of collapses.
Damage if the building falls on your head.
Clubs. NOt the bars, the things you hit people with.

Those are all aspects that would make this game better, reality wise and fun wise.
So I really don't understand why you do not see that. I probably won't.

[Summon3r]

clans have nothing to do with anything here... first off the CW mechanics are absolute trash, and CW is really not that fun. the only fun i ever have in CW is when im in a small group say 3-4 guys vs another team that has a mix of solo's and small groups.... the IS 12 mans easily roflstomp just as often OR MORE then the clans roflstomp...

there is nothing less fun then coming up against a full 12 man or 8-12 IS team where first wave whether defending or attacking you get stormed and ***** by 12 IS lights that run invisashields after that wave is done you now deal with nothing but TDRgods and the reincarnation of the 6 erll/LL STKgods... i also understand the same can be said for clans when you face nothing but SCR/HBR/TBR

and the other thing MERC mechanics are a joke and which ever side the mercs decide to join for a week is where you see the borders move

nice clan is op thread though lol

[ThrashInc]

Rouken, on 01 March 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Most of my complaints of CW come from lack of player direction. I would like for us to be the ones selecting planets. Also, a better defined difference between loyalist and mercs. Despite that, however, I enjoy CW.



But hey, that's just a theory...

We could talk about HPG would be a minimum of 100C cooler.

How dropdecks that are 160-240 @1.0G would have to be different if it wasn't 1.0G.

How thermal is not only not thermal but is a complete joke.

How nightvision is a green scale with low draw distance.

How duration/beam lasers would be 30% as effective as pulse lasers.

etc.