434 replies to this topic

[Tombstoner]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Which is why both mine, and Fate6's suggestion do have specific windows that can be used, with skill. The other useful suggestion was a mild CoF. Any and all are workable. In fact, I've already practiced mine enough to know it works.

Sorry Bishop but i cant see PGI investing resources into fixing what is basically an outlier mech. it was rare in TT for a mech to have the gargoyles stats and that made it cool. it could enter terrain typically limited to lights and mediums with overwhelming armor and firepower. That kind of mech isnt really suitable for this incarnation. no matter what you do to fix JJ and make 8 tones of investment worth something. the mechs over all size is a glaringly obvious defect unaccounted for in the TT conversion. If the mech was much shorter and stockier then normal mechs of its tonnage we would be making progress.

I work in product development optimizing manufacturing processes. No way is PGI gona fix things. because to fix things requires way too much work. i.e. time and money. We are locked on this trajectory for the foreseeable future, particularly for one mech. the game has gone through multiple changes because of specific mech configurations.
i cant wait for the http://www.sarna.net...ne_%28Kraken%29

With 14 ballistic hard points. its a pure daka boat with twice the hard points of money mechs and that means power.
add that mech and see what happens to the house of cards.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tombstoner, on 03 March 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry Bishop but i cant see PGI investing resources into fixing what is basically an outlier mech. it was rare in TT for a mech to have the gargoyles stats and that made it cool. it could enter terrain typically limited to lights and mediums with overwhelming armor and firepower. That kind of mech isnt really suitable for this incarnation. no matter what you do to fix JJ and make 8 tones of investment worth something. the mechs over all size is a glaringly obvious defect unaccounted for in the TT conversion. If the mech was much shorter and stockier then normal mechs of its tonnage we would be making progress.

I work in product development optimizing manufacturing processes. No way is PGI gona fix things. because to fix things requires way too much work. i.e. time and money. We are locked on this trajectory for the foreseeable future, particularly for one mech. the game has gone through multiple changes because of specific mech configurations.
i cant wait for the http://www.sarna.net...ne_%28Kraken%29

With 14 ballistic hard points. its a pure daka boat with twice the hard points of money mechs and that means power.
add that mech and see what happens to the house of cards.

Gargoyle doesn't have JJs, man. And literally it's a matter of changing it's movement archetype from Huge to Large. Not a lot of time involved. If you mean the Gladiator/Executioner, then the fix it needs it related to the global JJ issue, not just that chassis.

JJs in general are a hot mess, so we aren't talking outliers, but an entire system that has been a steaming pile for about a year.

[Deathlike]

I like how every patch goes by where Russ doesn't "recall" about fixing the Gargoyle's movement archetype.

If it doesn't happen next patch, it's probably not gonna happen at all.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 03 March 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

I like how every patch goes by where Russ doesn't "recall" about fixing the Gargoyle's movement archetype.

If it doesn't happen next patch, it's probably not gonna happen at all.

He says they have not even decided if it needs it yet. Nothing to do with forgetting.

Inferior mech with mediocre hitboxes and weak firepower, doesn't need good mobility to help compensate apparently. Or Endo. lol.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

He says they have not even decided if it needs it yet. Nothing to do with forgetting.

I'm sure he's playing a very different game that I am playing.

I only play the Gargles because it's hilarious fun to troll. Outside of that, I'll never use the mech in CW... ever.

Quote

Inferior mech with mediocre hitboxes and weak firepower, doesn't need good mobility to help compensate apparently. Or Endo. lol.

No, it just needs to be made fun of until the end of time... because... squirrel!

[Brody319]

since assaults have hoverjets, why not make them be better at that job?

pushing the JJ button will send a cause a mech to move faster in one direction depending on where the jets are located.

if they are in the torso, then what ever direction the torso is facing will be the direction the mech flies forward.
If they are in the legs they move in the direction the legs face.

if the JJs are in both it will travel in a direction between the legs and torso's direction.


would make Assaults with JJs manuverable and give them an advantage over non JJ mechs.


think kinda like Hawken's sprint, where your mech moves forward for a bit, till it runs out of fuel.

Deathlike, on 03 March 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

I'm sure he's playing a very different game that I am playing.

I only play the Gargles because it's hilarious fun to troll. Outside of that, I'll never use the mech in CW... ever.



No, it just needs to be made fun of until the end of time... because... squirrel!

well we saw what happened to some IS chassis when quirks hit. suddenly Dragon was tier 1-2 and the Jeager was pretty crushed.

I imagine they are hesitant to touch any clan mech with any form of buff till they feel the IS can handle it.

[Deathlike]

Brody319, on 03 March 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

well we saw what happened to some IS chassis when quirks hit. suddenly Dragon was tier 1-2 and the Jeager was pretty crushed.

I imagine they are hesitant to touch any clan mech with any form of buff till they feel the IS can handle it.

Right... like somehow the Nova, Kitfox, Adder, Gargoyle, Summoner (and a few others) are the meta mechs.

Yes, you SHOULD be scared.

[Brody319]

Deathlike, on 03 March 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

Right... like somehow the Nova, Kitfox, Adder, Gargoyle, Summoner (and a few others) are the meta mechs.

Yes, you SHOULD be scared.

Russ raised the drop deck for IS. and we already know Clan mechs are getting quirks, only 4 but still. maybe the Gargoyle will be one of the ones to get quirks and fixed movement profile.

[Mystere]

Tombstoner, on 03 March 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry Bishop but i cant see PGI investing resources into fixing what is basically an outlier mech. it was rare in TT for a mech to have the gargoyles stats and that made it cool. it could enter terrain typically limited to lights and mediums with overwhelming armor and firepower. That kind of mech isnt really suitable for this incarnation. no matter what you do to fix JJ and make 8 tones of investment worth something. the mechs over all size is a glaringly obvious defect unaccounted for in the TT conversion. If the mech was much shorter and stockier then normal mechs of its tonnage we would be making progress.

I work in product development optimizing manufacturing processes. No way is PGI gona fix things. because to fix things requires way too much work. i.e. time and money. We are locked on this trajectory for the foreseeable future, particularly for one mech. the game has gone through multiple changes because of specific mech configurations.
i cant wait for the http://www.sarna.net...ne_%28Kraken%29

With 14 ballistic hard points. its a pure daka boat with twice the hard points of money mechs and that means power.
add that mech and see what happens to the house of cards.

Well, PGI tends to "fix" things when the amount of "whine" is considerable enough. And given that 3 out of 4 Wave 3 mechs have JJs, I think a properly instigated "whine" campaign will do the trick. The key is to start it early, but only at a low level, and then ratchet it up as the first release approaches.

A few governments have been toppled in the last few years in exactly this way, bloodless or otherwise.











<barely audible maniacal in the background>

Edited by Mystere, 03 March 2015 - 03:22 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 03 March 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Russ raised the drop deck for IS. and we already know Clan mechs are getting quirks, only 4 but still. maybe the Gargoyle will be one of the ones to get quirks and fixed movement profile.

Needs to be raised by another 10 tons, at least, ATM; IMO.

[Deathlike]

Brody319, on 03 March 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Russ raised the drop deck for IS. and we already know Clan mechs are getting quirks, only 4 but still. maybe the Gargoyle will be one of the ones to get quirks and fixed movement profile.

I'll believe it when I see it (and that'll be a large patch anyways).

[Brody319]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Needs to be raised by another 10 tons, at least, ATM; IMO.

IS can bring like 4 Thunderbolts now.

[Jetfire]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

He says they have not even decided if it needs it yet. Nothing to do with forgetting.

Inferior mech with mediocre hitboxes and weak firepower, doesn't need good mobility to help compensate apparently. Or Endo. lol.

Until the gargoyle is drawn into the Quirkening it is simply premature. Not a bad idea to change it, but it could be viable via the quirks without it.

[Brody319]

Deathlike, on 03 March 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

I'll believe it when I see it (and that'll be a large patch anyways).

was on the roadmap for march. but as to what chassis are getting it I have no idea.

I would hope its a weight class based, so Lynx, Ferret/Nova, Summoner, Gargoyle.

[Deathlike]

Brody319, on 03 March 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

was on the roadmap for march. but as to what chassis are getting it I have no idea.

I would hope its a weight class based, so Lynx, Ferret/Nova, Summoner, Gargoyle.

For the record, they tweaked the Mist Lynx, Nova, and Summoner last time (only possibly a teeny bit for the Warhawk IIRC).

Chances are, the Adder, Ice Ferret, Maddog, and Gargoyle will get the nod this time around.

[Brody319]

Deathlike, on 03 March 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

For the record, they tweaked the Mist Lynx, Nova, and Summoner last time (only possibly a teeny bit for the Warhawk IIRC).

Chances are, the Adder, Ice Ferret, Maddog, and Gargoyle will get the nod this time around.

when?

[Nathan Foxbane]

Carrioncrows, on 02 March 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

Oh gosh, I can see how we should throw out the whole idea due to this tiny issue. However would we amend this.

Lets try:
Can't fire your jumpjets unless you have a 100% jump charge -Unless you are in the air-

Crisis averted.

As a regular medium pilot I have found myself in situations demanding the use of partially charged jets. Jump over something (including oncoming 'Mechs) after just jumping in or die. Jump or fall into a street, smash into the side of a building, and die (incoming fire has the right of way and friendly fire isn't). There are situations where a full jump isn't needed, but with slow recharges one does not have time to wait around for a full recharge. On an Assault that is usually not an issue, but unless PGI is going to go through the trouble of programming behaviors for individual weight classes or, heaven forbid, individual 'Mechs. Considerations need to be made to things other than just poptarting. Missing a partial jump and sliding down a hill is a situation that depends on how the game treats falling in conjunction with unclimbable slopes. Normally you can use up your jets to feather to the bottom, but if falling down a slope is treated as multiple impacts with the ground a limit on activation will depend solely on an activation window that is several milliseconds wide and likely not enough to do anything before another impact with the ground resets jump activation.

Crows, your suggestion is one of the better ones out there, but only having unlimited activation options while in the air has other consequences. I would have suggested an amendment if I had felt that was all your change needed. If I were to suggest a change it would be to remove that entire limit. Yes the limit does deter screwing with hitboxes using activation spam, but it is a bandaid fix at best and does not address the hit registration issue which is the problem there. Since tapping is similar to feathering a better fix (still bandaid) would be an activation timer. Activate jets, start timer, unless activation key is held past when the timer expires jets will remain active while the timer is still running regardless of player action. Makes feathering a bit tricky, but meeting a fall condition(s) may release the jets for unlimited use could be a fix to that.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I cracked and bought it Bishop... I bought the gladiator and I don't know how to feel right now.

T_T

[Brody319]

MoonUnitBeta, on 03 March 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

I cracked and bought it Bishop... I bought the gladiator and I don't know how to feel right now.

T_T

no one can resist that face!

[Deathlike]

Brody319, on 03 March 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

when?

It was the around the same time the Summoner got the "Speed Tweak boost". At this point, I'd wish I'd recall the date.

Nova got more heat gen reductions (Nova-Prime arms aren't a penalty).

Mist Lynx got arm+leg protection bumps.

IIRC, the Warhawk's 3E arm had its negative quirk removed, but I could be totally remembering it wrong.