434 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Almond Brown, on 02 March 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Well as long as some get what they want, it is all good then. To bad not all Brawler Mechs get JJ at all.

For curiosity sake, which weight class(es) do you predominantly Jump Brawl in?

I now use mostly lights, but sometimes also mediums, for that purpose. I used to also do it a lot in my Heavy Metal. It's the reason I got one in the first place.

[Bishop Steiner]

Almond Brown, on 02 March 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Reticule shake only lasts while JJ are engaged.

kind...of..the ....point.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Huh funny...I could say the same thing...as I laid out the combinations of factors that will in all likelihood keep the Glad mediocre.

Let's take a look at what you laid out.

Bishop Steiner said:

There is little to no reason to believe the Executioner will be any better. Which means you will have a huge (traditionally about the largest mech in the game, height-wise) mech profile, horrible terrain movement, and terribad JJs. With under 25 tons of guns when fully armored. Again, like the Highlander and Gargoyle (and Victor to a lesser extent) it's a mech defined by it's mobility. And PGI seems determined to take that away from Assaults, almost entirely.

The relevant bits:



1) Profile (geometry):

I explcicitly said "Barring some hitbox disaster...".

Yes, if it's massively taller than the Banshee/Atlas it will have problems. This is a "wait and see" issue, although I don't think it will be that tall.



2) Huge Movement Type (terrain movement)

Banshee is also 95T and also Huge, and moves around fine with a smaller engine and no JJs.



3) Terribad JJs:

Terribad JJs are still better than no JJs. DWF-S pods will be commonplace come April.




4) 25T of Clan Firepower isn't sufficient for what you want.

25T of Clan Firepower + 6 tons of DHS = 25+6T (31T) of Firepower. 31T of Clan firepower is worth more than 31T of IS firepower.

It's going to have firepower like a Timberwolf, a mech people complain has too much firepower...

I think it will be sufficient to be effective.


It's not sufficient for the loadout that you apparently want it to have, which gets back to you evaluating things based on what you want them to be as opposed to what they are actually capable of.


Is 25T not enough? This is what a 350STD La Malinche looks like with less speed, no JJs, no MASC.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1d12e420e3ddbae



Putting an XL in yoru Banshee? Then you are accepting more risk for more firepower, which the Executioner does not do.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 March 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[Apnu]

stjobe, on 01 March 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

How come a full complement of 4 JJs on a Panther 9R or 8Z cannot reverse a fall once it's begun?*

Why do I need the 8 JJs of a Panther 10K to actually reverse a fall?

The 4 JJs can lift a stationary Panther into the air, but not one that has begun falling? Where's the logic in that?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I ran the PNT-8Z last night with 4JJs. I jumped all over the place, I had falls from heights and goosing the JJs was enough to reduce my falling damage to 0. I tend to leave abut 20% of the JJ meter in the tank for the return trip to the ground. I run off cliffs on Tourmaline, Canyon, and Crimson Straits (well the garage that is) all the time to get away from fire.

How are you falling w/out being able to use your 4 JJs?

[Bishop Steiner]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

I have no idea what you're talking about. I ran the PNT-8Z last night with 4JJs. I jumped all over the place, I had falls from heights and goosing the JJs was enough to reduce my falling damage to 0. I tend to leave abut 20% of the JJ meter in the tank for the return trip to the ground. I run off cliffs on Tourmaline, Canyon, and Crimson Straits (well the garage that is) all the time to get away from fire.

How are you falling w/out being able to use your 4 JJs?

he is saying that once in freefall the JJs are not enough to create lift, just cushion.

[Apnu]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

he is saying that once in freefall the JJs are not enough to create lift, just cushion.

Oh, well then I guess I use my JJ's differently. I use them to scoot over small terrain in the way, change direction fast, power up to higher levels, and escape fire by running off cliffs and breaking the fall.

I guess he's talking about jump sniping then?

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

As a sad example, mechs like the Cataphract and Jagermech were once considered Medium, the Catapult was once Huge (I think), and the Stalker was Large. This is also why the King Crab is Large (because it's a small assault). I think that one of the medium mechs was classified as Large, I can't remember. The Gargles is about the same physical size as an Atlas, so they made it have the same climbing ability as one (Huge).

According to this link, the Cataphract and Jagermech are both still medium, the Catapult is Large and the Victor is apparently Huge?

http://www.reddit.co...types_of_mechs/


That's of one month ago, do you have different info you could share?


The Banshee and HGN are also Huge btw, I don't see why the Executioner wouldn't be - especially based on what you've said.


Unless you think it shouldn't be huge?

[Bishop Steiner]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Oh, well then I guess I use my JJ's differently. I use them to scoot over small terrain in the way, change direction fast, power up to higher levels, and escape fire by running off cliffs and breaking the fall.

I guess he's talking about jump sniping then?

not exactly. He is just saying their thrust is insufficient for their mass, in his opinion. Jump sniping is one use, plenty of others.

I'm not so hung up on total thrust...my issue is more how easily mechs get hung on geometry and waste thrust. The need to fix that.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 02 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

According to this link, the Cataphract and Jagermech are both still medium, the Catapult is Large and the Victor is apparently Huge?

http://www.reddit.co...types_of_mechs/


That's of one month ago, do you have different info you could share?


The Banshee and HGN are also Huge btw, I don't see why the Executioner wouldn't be - especially based on what you've said.


Unless you think it shouldn't be huge?

The Gladi being huge makes some sense because it's 95 tons, which is just a stone's throw from the biggest size robot you can get.

The problem is that the Gargles should NOT be "Huge" just because it happens to be scaled similar to an Atlas.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'd also consider it my Executioner could carry 2x Gauss, 2x ER Large Lasers and 4x MPL like Vlad Ward's did..........

That's a 45T Loadout assuming 5T of Gauss Ammo.


So you want it to have basically the same firepower as the Dire Wolf, but without the Speed hindrance?

That loadout on a 380CXL 95T Assault mech with JJs and MASC would instantly make the Executioner the most powerful mech in the game by a good margin.

"Timber Wolf OP" would look silly in the face of that.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 March 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

The Gladi being huge makes some sense because it's 95 tons, which is just a stone's throw from the biggest size robot you can get.

The problem is that the Gargles should NOT be "Huge" just because it happens to be scaled similar to an Atlas.

And the KGC should not be "Large". Sorry, 100 tons with heavily frontloaded center of gravity.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

The problem is that the Gargles should NOT be "Huge" just because it happens to be scaled similar to an Atlas.

Yes and it's clear Russ intends to change it and just keeps forgetting.


Send him tweets on twitter, he's never going to see it buried in threads like these.



EDIT: I just sent him another tweet on it.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 March 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 02 March 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

That's a 45T Loadout assuming 5T of Gauss Ammo.


So you want it to have basically the same firepower as the Dire Wolf, but without the Speed hindrance?

That loadout on a 380CXL 95T Assault mech with JJs and MASC would instantly make the Executioner the most powerful mech in the game by a good margin.

"Timber Wolf OP" would look silly in the face of that.

Hey, just quoting canon. Good enough for Mike Stackpole, why not me?

(Sheesh, what is up with the people that can't detect obvious tongue in cheek posts? Seems like a bunch of captain literals out these days)

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 March 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Hey, just quoting canon. Good enough for Mike Stackpole, why not me?

(Sheesh, what is up with the people that can't detect obvious tongue in cheek posts? Seems like a bunch of captain literals out these days)

It's hard to tell when you are being tongue-in-cheek when it comes to canon loadouts or TT items.

[Mystere]

MerryIguana, on 02 March 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Compared to last year, it is dead.

It's not quite dead yet. But it will be if this person gets what he wants.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 02 March 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

It's hard to tell when you are being tongue-in-cheek when it comes to canon loadouts or TT items.

when one is citing an obviously impossible loadout? It should be assumed.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 02 March 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

It's not quite dead yet. But it will be if this person gets what he wants.

I haven't built up enough rage to say what I really think about the OP's terrible idea.

[Ens]

While i mostly agree with your points of view ( no matter the topic ), Bishop.....
This time i can´t, though i see your point.

But:

Despite the "Huge" Movement-Archetype of the Gargoyle, and all the Clan-Player-Whineyness ( is that even a word? ) i am here to assure you:

The Gargoyle is quite nice


Sorry for the small amount of "evidence", but games like this are quite often...
And to be perfectly honest......those screens were made, when i started out on the Gargoyle a few days ago on my clan account. It was all basic....

It just not the one-click death machine that the regular clan players are so used to


Since you´re quite known now, for being a successful "underdog-mech" lover/player, maybe this is just that one time experience, that the Gargoyle is just not you´re thing and that´s all?

[Widowmaker1981]

Ens, on 02 March 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

While i mostly agree with your points of view ( no matter the topic ), Bishop.....
This time i can´t, though i see your point.

But:

Despite the "Huge" Movement-Archetype of the Gargoyle, and all the Clan-Player-Whineyness ( is that even a word? ) i am here to assure you:

The Gargoyle is quite nice


Sorry for the small amount of "evidence", but games like this are quite often...
And to be perfectly honest......those screens were made, when i started out on the Gargoyle a few days ago on my clan account. It was all basic....

It just not the one-click death machine that the regular clan players are so used to


Since you´re quite known now, for being a successful "underdog-mech" lover/player, maybe this is just that one time experience, that the Gargoyle is just not you´re thing and that´s all?

I can show you an 800 dmg game in a Mist Lynx of all things, doesn't make it a good mech.. screenshots of single games show absolutely nothing. Maybe average stats after at least 100 games played, but even then it can be twisted by playing in a good group.



The MLX is still completely terrible. (albeit kinda fun)

The Gargoyles issue is adding literally nothing. every. single. role it can perform is done much better by a lighter mech. Even the poor summoner and nova have SOME kind of niche...

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 02 March 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Ultimatum X, on 02 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

According to this link, the Cataphract and Jagermech are both still medium, the Catapult is Large and the Victor is apparently Huge?

http://www.reddit.co...types_of_mechs/


That's of one month ago, do you have different info you could share?


The Banshee and HGN are also Huge btw, I don't see why the Executioner wouldn't be - especially based on what you've said.


Unless you think it shouldn't be huge?

The King Crab is 100t and did not get slapped with the "huge" profile yet somehow the Gargoyle gets slapped with it......

I thought the Victor was "large" also and if it is not it needs to get there too.

Edited by Kain Thul, 02 March 2015 - 10:46 AM.