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Solo Players In Cw - A Pain

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#101 Zordicron

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 04:31 AM

View PostGyrok, on 09 March 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Here is the underlying issue:

1.) People who refuse to join a group are at an immediate disadvantage against an organized group.

2.) Groups focus on Community Warfare as the one thing in game they can impact directly. So, it is their most focused point unless they are strictly leagues or something.

3.) PUGs focus on Community Warfare as the one thing in game they can impact directly.

4.) Groups need something to do besides group queue, and catering to PUGs dumbs the game down to the point you lose the organized player base. The ones who spend money, and drive longevity for many players...those guys.

5.)PUGs need something to do besides PUG queue; however, any time they are pitted against organized groups, the skill advantage, and communication advantage, will generally overwhelm them.

6.) Splitting queues for CW is a non-starter because, frankly, the player base is too small to do both.

Therefore, people need to join groups. Organized gaming is more fun for everyone, and not every unit is a fit for everyone; however, it will improve the experience, increase longevity in the game, and provide real results in player development above and beyond what the solo queue could possibly accomplish.

In fact, CWDG prefers people come in with little to no experience over bad habits, bad builds, learned from the solo queue. That experience is so detrimental to player development we would rather you be a complete newbie and learn from scratch. Honestly...

About money. I nearly 100% pug, and I have purchased every mech pack in game(cept founders cause i didnt know it existed) and almost every hero mech.

Please stop saying that group players are supporting the game. They buy ****, sure, but there are plenty of hero mechs etc running around in pug land. The money argument is so exagerated and blatently scewed. I am tired of seeing it.

#102 Leeroy Mechkins

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 04:51 AM

In fact I think unit players probably buy less MC than PUGs because they churn Cbills like crazy in a unit so they can just buy whatever they like.

#103 Pz_DC

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 05:00 AM

View PostSagamore, on 10 March 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:


As a closed beta player and long-time supporter of the game, I was excited about CW. In its current state, it is an awful experience for solo players like myself. I've gone back to the public queue and having more fun.


Key thing is - you need different skills to support CW-play style unlike "standart" matches... so when solo player face it, he is "a bit" dissapointed ;)
P.S. Two different queue maybe can solve this, but it will not help with map unbalance...

#104 HARDKOR

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 05:56 AM

View PostLeeroy Mechkins, on 10 March 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

In fact I think unit players probably buy less MC than PUGs because they churn Cbills like crazy in a unit so they can just buy whatever they like.


Less MC, more preorders. MC is a bad deal compared to the pre orders and only useful for paint.

#105 sycocys

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:03 AM

View PostYokaiko, on 10 March 2015 - 03:32 AM, said:


In short you got farmed, weather the OLD guys knew about that flaw or not I don't know (I'd assume they did), but defending sulfur requires that you hold that grid down, or lose.


Pretty sure I was in on that match, and while yes we do our best to focus on protecting that zone sometimes you just get unlucky and lose it as well as the match with it. If I recall we took it back but unfortunately a bit to late to save some of the drop camps.

It's not really a mechanic I like from our side or theirs, but unfortunately it's the way PGI decided to program this mode and these maps to make spawn camping in effect a priority to do in order to gain the numbers advantage. Adding in that you can generally also have great los on the objective targets from the spawn camp zones just makes it worse imo.

View PostSagamore, on 10 March 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:


As a closed beta player and long-time supporter of the game, I was excited about CW. In its current state, it is an awful experience for solo players like myself. I've gone back to the public queue and having more fun.

Totally agree and I run CW with a team, yet I still spend the majority of my game time in the standard drops simply because they are somehow still the more interesting and enjoyable mode to play. Definitely shouldn't be the case, dropping in CW with your team should have bunch so much more of an enjoyable experience (win or lose) than it actually is turning out to be. If CW doesn't improve greatly over the next few months I don't really see it being the mode they need it to be to carry this game into the future more and more people will just relegate back to standard drops and leave CW to 12 mans only with a sparse population left in the mix.

Whether you like pugs/solo players or not, you need them to feel like they have a place in CW if you want it to thrive. Currently they just do not have that place.

#106 Gyrok

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:21 AM

View PostEldagore, on 10 March 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

About money. I nearly 100% pug, and I have purchased every mech pack in game(cept founders cause i didnt know it existed) and almost every hero mech.

Please stop saying that group players are supporting the game. They buy ****, sure, but there are plenty of hero mechs etc running around in pug land. The money argument is so exagerated and blatently scewed. I am tired of seeing it.

View PostLeeroy Mechkins, on 10 March 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

In fact I think unit players probably buy less MC than PUGs because they churn Cbills like crazy in a unit so they can just buy whatever they like.


There are literally 4-5+ people in CWDG who are well beyond 4 figures into this game....the wave 3 pre-order was a drop in the bucket compared to what was spent before it. I am not ashamed, embarrassed, or worried, I have spent money that would have been spent elsewhere on enjoying this game. Some of our guys have spent twice or more compared to what I have. One of them has 2 warhawk packs and a gold TW...

But, you must be right...pub queue players spend that much all time...how many thousands have you spent?

#107 Mott

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:36 AM

View PostEldagore, on 10 March 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

About money. I nearly 100% pug, and I have purchased every mech pack in game(cept founders cause i didnt know it existed) and almost every hero mech.

Please stop saying that group players are supporting the game. They buy ****, sure, but there are plenty of hero mechs etc running around in pug land. The money argument is so exagerated and blatently scewed. I am tired of seeing it.

View PostLeeroy Mechkins, on 10 March 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

In fact I think unit players probably buy less MC than PUGs because they churn Cbills like crazy in a unit so they can just buy whatever they like.


I can't say you guys are wrong, there's no stats available to us to determine one way or another.

But my gut tells me you're wrong. Just going from the players i know well enough personally... those engaged in a unit, who participate in higher levels of play buy a crap-ton of mech packs, as well as MC (unit camo & paints, mechbays, emergency PT, etc)

Those who pug... are much tighter with their $$$ and more often than not leave the game altogether. Sure, they may grab a hero mech here and there, PT once in a while... but nowhere near the rate and frequency that more serious players do.

As for seeing heros in the pug queue...wtf does that tell you? I'm a unit member, attempting to get better at competitive play. I've purchased every mech pack since i started playing, as well as most hero mechs. I drop in PUG queues to level my mechs every time i log in... but i'm not a soloist pugger, despite you seeing my for-$$$ mechs there.

#108 HARDKOR

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:00 AM

Hehe, pub cue is only place you see heros not named Misery because no one takes those in the more SRS cues.

#109 Mott

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:14 AM

View PostHARDKOR, on 10 March 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Hehe, pub cue is only place you see heros not named Misery because no one takes those in the more SRS cues.


Well, that's a bit extreme. There are cases to be made for using several heros in serious play, such as Ember, Firebrand, Misery, Ilya and Grid Iron. But yeah, by & large, hero mechs are passed over in serious drop decks.

#110 HARDKOR

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:31 AM

View PostMott, on 10 March 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:


Well, that's a bit extreme. There are cases to be made for using several heros in serious play, such as Ember, Firebrand, Misery, Ilya and Grid Iron. But yeah, by & large, hero mechs are passed over in serious drop decks.


I'd add the Yen Lo to that list, but the AH made it obsolete. Ember obsolete due to quirks. Grid Iron is probably the one that sticks out as being a winner.

I'd like to run an all hero CW deck but I just don't see it happening. There's always some uber quirked mech that's better.

#111 C E Dwyer

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:31 AM

View PostMott, on 10 March 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:


Well, that's a bit extreme. There are cases to be made for using several heros in serious play, such as Ember, Firebrand, Misery, Ilya and Grid Iron. But yeah, by & large, hero mechs are passed over in serious drop decks.


Kind of proves how dumb assed all those people that churn out the P2W mantra are

#112 HARDKOR

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:33 AM

View PostCathy, on 10 March 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:


Kind of proves how dumb assed all those people that churn out the P2W mantra are


I think the hero mechs should be as good as the best F2P variant. Getting anything less than a viable mech, for spending that much money, is terrible.

#113 sycocys

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:41 AM

I can agree with that they need to be looked at. Most really aren't even up to par for solo pug land.

#114 C E Dwyer

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:51 AM

View PostHARDKOR, on 10 March 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:


I think the hero mechs should be as good as the best F2P variant. Getting anything less than a viable mech, for spending that much money, is terrible.


Its the penalty you pay for a 30% increase in C-bills, the closest there is to P2W is the ember, and Illy

View Postsycocys, on 10 March 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

I can agree with that they need to be looked at. Most really aren't even up to par for solo pug land.


PGI won't because they are sensitive to P2W rants after the yen lo, and the Ily and so, make them bellow average on purpose

#115 Dawnstealer

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:51 AM

I'm a member of the 5th RCT, but because of when I can drop vs when most of them can drop, our schedules don't always align. As a result, I tend to solo-drop a lot.

Granted, it's hit or miss. Most times you get a bad combination of players who are individually very good, but not used to working with others; new players who are completely out of their element with CW; small groups doing their own thing and not communicating (or listening) to VOIP, or paying attention to what the rest of the team is doing.

Sometimes, rarely, you get a combination of experienced players who ARE good at working on a team and wow - is it fun when that train get rolling.

CW's an interesting animal. 12-person vs 12-person is very tactical, but also kind of boring: you'll see the same mechs over and over and over. PUG vs Prebuilt is a joke. PUG vs PUG is some of the most fun I've had in MWO: you see weird builds, weird tactics, ebb and flow that's just fun to play in.

#116 mekabuser

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:53 AM

View PostGyrok, on 10 March 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:


There are literally 4-5+ people in CWDG who are well beyond 4 figures into this game....the wave 3 pre-order was a drop in the bucket compared to what was spent before it. I am not ashamed, embarrassed, or worried, I have spent money that would have been spent elsewhere on enjoying this game. Some of our guys have spent twice or more compared to what I have. One of them has 2 warhawk packs and a gold TW...

But, you must be right...pub queue players spend that much all time...how many thousands have you spent?

you need to spend more.

It would be a fascinating study to eavesdrop on your TS.
Hell, I would probably have enough info to flesh out a thesis for a doctorate of psychology.

#117 Bigbacon

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:54 AM

View PostHARDKOR, on 09 March 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

Well, if you suck, probably stay in the solo cue, where noone is taking it seriously.

It's OK to suck, as long as you realize it and know where to go.

For example, I am terrible at disc golf and bowling. I enjoy both these sports. I play them drunk and am bad on my best days. Luckily, I know that I am bad and I do not join leagues, because to do so, would be a bad time for me and a bad time for my team. I keep my terrible skills to myself and have a great time, with other equally terrible players(and some better ones, who we make drink more, to keep it more fair.)

BTW - saying 50% of the players are bad is not egotism, it's a fact. If half the players are better than you, then you are bad. Egotism would be to insist that people who are min/maxing the game are doing anything other than playing it correctly so that ones own poor performance can be explained away.


so...only those who are good can play?? that is good for the player base...... who decides who sucks and who doesn't?

PGI's end goal is to make money, and they do that by having the biggest player base they can get having a good time in the game.

I am a mediocre player at best and I would love to enjoy CW both solo and in groups but I don't...why...bad level design, getting put against people who have nothing better to do and getting stomped. I don't have an optimized CW deck of mechs and nor should people have to have that just to have that extra help.

Point is, CW isn't fun for a lot of folks because they are mainly solo folk. They know the solo queue exists but they want to play CW as well just don't want to put up with making sure they have a large group to play with. I will keep saying that the biggest mistake PGI made was calling CW hard mode from the start. All it did was put the minority of player in a mindset that they'd get what they wanted and those who aren't elite enough should not apply.

Big map with a few hundred playing isn't really that good of a turn out.

#118 mekabuser

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:57 AM

View PostDawnstealer, on 10 March 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

I
CW's an interesting animal. 12-person vs 12-person is very tactical, but also kind of boring: you'll see the same mechs over and over and over. PUG vs Prebuilt is a joke. PUG vs PUG is some of the most fun I've had in MWO: you see weird builds, weird tactics, ebb and flow that's just fun to play in.

I think you hit the nail on the head.. No groups in CW would offer the best gameplay experience. Whats funny is Im NOT being sarcastic. .
I never realized how badly the FTP model actually accentuates too many negative human reactions. THat in conjunction with the utter craptastic design of cw = a complete disaster..
Shame.

#119 HARDKOR

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 08:02 AM

View PostBigbacon, on 10 March 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:


so........ who decides who sucks and who doesn't?
.....
I am a mediocre player at best and I would love to enjoy CW both solo and in groups but I don't...why...bad level design, getting put against people who have nothing better to do and getting stomped. I don't have an optimized CW deck of mechs and nor should people have to have that just to have that extra help.


You sound like you are self identifying under the shouldn't play category. No team, bad mechs, already defeated attitude... good luck with that.

I see it as end game content. it provides a reason to make a perfect drop deck. Building the perfect deck for CW makes there be a reason for grinding mechs beyond pokemech OCD.

Jumping in CW without a good deck is like attacking the end boss with the stuff you get from beating the first level boss.

Edited by HARDKOR, 10 March 2015 - 08:05 AM.


#120 Gyrok

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 08:58 AM

View Postmekabuser, on 10 March 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

you need to spend more.

It would be a fascinating study to eavesdrop on your TS.
Hell, I would probably have enough info to flesh out a thesis for a doctorate of psychology.


Probably not...unless you catch a group of the guys telling bad jokes...some of them are a bit off kilter...





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