190 replies to this topic

[Soy]

I've constantly read a bunch of comments since returning to MWO about how the Nova sucks.

http://youtu.be/Ie2ZkNykXpM



Please summarize an argument about why the Nova sucks. Please frame your argument in a clear and concise statement. Take a couple minutes; I took a few hours to make this video so the least you can do is take a few extra seconds to really make your statement meaningful.

I have issues with Nova as well, but I'd rather hear people break it down critically from the other side of the fence.

So far the one person who previewed this video said the argument revolves principally around "the Nova, and that build, suck... you're just good". I don't believe that be entirely true. What say you?

Video is not a peenstroke, it's supposed to be showing how even one simple weapon can allow for lots of somewhat-feasible variety in play on a 'bad' mech. Yes, we all know, in a 12 man poking at 400 tons staring back at you will instantly ruin this mech, we get it. If that's your entire 'argument' then it'll be duly noted.

Edited by Soy, 09 March 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[Kain Demos]

The solo queue and group play are very different things. I probably average over 500 dmg/game in all of my Novas in the solo queue but if you bring one against an organized 12-man your life expectancy will be less than 2 seconds once the first shot hits you.

Offensively the Nova is an absolute wrecking machine from short-medium range. I have a lot of fun in them, that's for sure. Hell, even hot maps like tourmaline can be ok with the 12 CERML build--I just poke out one side and give them six at a time.

Edited by Kain Thul, 09 March 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[cSand]

Kain Thul, on 09 March 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

The solo queue and group play are very different things. I probably average over 500 dmg/game in all of my Novas in the solo queue but if you bring one against an organized 12-man your life expectancy will be less than 2 seconds once the first shot hits you.

Sure if you run out by yourself into the ORGANIZED 12 MAN

[Kain Demos]

cSand, on 09 March 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Sure if you run out by yourself into the ORGANIZED 12 MAN

Not just by yourself. Good players/teams will go for the fast, easy kill.

I just watched most of your video soy--good stuff there. The top of the citadel trick is one of my favorites. I had a good run there last night where the only guy to make a legit attempt to get me down was an ember who must not have equipped enough JJs to make the jump and after his third attempt I killed him.

[Ultimax]

I think "sucks" is a stretch.

Good Points:

> Access to clan energy weapons - some of the most tonnage efficient weapons in the game
> JJs - even if you have to take 5 of them (2.5 tons)
> Torso mounted energy (finally one for each torso)
> Plenty of energy hardpoints
> Can run asymmetric builds

Bad Points:

> Model is way too large and wide - especially the arms where your weapons will often be
> Lost the "stock build" options lotto with no weigh savings
> Engine isn't terrible, but could be larger
> Arms are low slung, but at least slightly mitigated by the torso mounts (Unlike Mr. Gargles)

[Fate 6]

Kain Thul, on 09 March 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

The solo queue and group play are very different things. I probably average over 500 dmg/game in all of my Novas in the solo queue but if you bring one against an organized 12-man your life expectancy will be less than 2 seconds once the first shot hits you.

^
The Nova has bad hitboxes. It's possible to do well with it if people don't look at you, but against intelligent opponents you lose half your mech instantly and the other half is generally soon to follow (if you don't outright get your CT blown up in the first place). Weapon placement is also terrible and reinforces your tendency to be focused because you have to have your entire mech showing to get a shot off.

Imagine having the Hunchback before it got increased RT armor. That's the Nova right now, but with even worse hitboxes and WAY worse weapon placement.

[cSand]

Kain Thul, on 09 March 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Not just by yourself. Good players/teams will go for the fast, easy kill.

Then it is your responsibilty to not be a target sir!


That said, I love coming up on a Nova. Dinner time

[Kain Demos]

cSand, on 09 March 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

Then it is your responsibilty to not be a target sir!


That said, I love coming up on a Nova. Dinner time

You have to expose yourself SOMETIME, you can't always hide. Especially in a full push.

Ultimatum X, on 09 March 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

I think "sucks" is a stretch.

Good Points:

> Access to clan energy weapons - some of the most tonnage efficient weapons in the game
> JJs - even if you have to take 5 of them (2.5 tons)
> Torso mounted energy (finally one for each torso)
> Plenty of energy hardpoints
> Can run asymmetric builds

Bad Points:

> Model is way too large and wide - especially the arms where your weapons will often be
> Lost the "stock build" options lotto with no weigh savings
> Engine isn't terrible, but could be larger
> Arms are low slung, but at least slightly mitigated by the torso mounts (Unlike Mr. Gargles)

What the ****......a dark day when I agree with a post from you.

[Ultimax]

Kain Thul, on 09 March 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Not just by yourself. Good players/teams will go for the fast, easy kill.

You do know what unit Soy is in right?

[Soy]

Ultimatum X, on 09 March 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

I think "sucks" is a stretch.

Good Points:

> Access to clan energy weapons - some of the most tonnage efficient weapons in the game
> JJs - even if you have to take 5 of them (2.5 tons)
> Torso mounted energy (finally one for each torso)
> Plenty of energy hardpoints
> Can run asymmetric builds

Bad Points:

> Model is way too large and wide - especially the arms where your weapons will often be
> Lost the "stock build" options lotto with no weigh savings
> Engine isn't terrible, but could be larger
> Arms are low slung, but at least slightly mitigated by the torso mounts (Unlike Mr. Gargles)

Very true. Excellent post, well formed.

+cookie

[Ultimax]

Kain Thul, on 09 March 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

What the ****......a dark day when I agree with a post from you.

Everyone is destined to see the logic in my words at some point.

[cSand]

Kain Thul, on 09 March 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

You have to expose yourself SOMETIME, you can't always hide. Especially in a full push.

just not in public OK!!!!!

[Soy]

Fate 6, on 09 March 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

Imagine having the Hunchback before it got increased RT armor. That's the Nova right now, but with even worse hitboxes and WAY worse weapon placement.

I agree with this statement 100%.

[Kain Demos]

Ultimatum X, on 09 March 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

You do know what unit Soy is in right?

No, but I was talking to cSand as he disagreed. Soy mentions in his OP that he knows it falls under focus fire so if that is all you have got that is all you have got.

When the Nova gets its "quirk pass" if all they do is buff the STs/Arms with armor/structure I would be satisfied. It needs to be remodeled but that will never happen.

[Satan n stuff]

It's a decent mech, the hitbox issue can be easily avoided by avoiding being focused first, and if your Nova is built for it it can lay down a lot of damage very quickly.
I run one of mine with 12 small pulse and 4 MGs and it can easily kill most assaults one on one. Survive ten seconds of combat with a build like that and the enemy is going to wish they targeted you first.

[RedDevil]

Nice video. Yeah my biggest issue is that no matter what the angle, everything seems to hit my center torso

They other thing I hate about the mech is the flack you get if you take one in CW.....

Edited by reddevil, 09 March 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[Soy]

Kain Thul, on 09 March 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

When the Nova gets its "quirk pass" if all they do is buff the STs/Arms with armor/structure I would be satisfied. It needs to be remodeled but that will never happen.

In my opinion... regarding potential quirk pass on Nova... if it gets acceleration, turn rate, or arm armor/structure buff, then it'll be in a lot better situation than it currently is because it will be able to *sometimes* make it out of a bad cornering into unaccounted 200+ tons which is either a death sentence or a missing arm/leg currently.

[Kain Demos]

Soy, on 09 March 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

In my opinion... regarding potential quirk pass on Nova... if it gets acceleration, turn rate, or arm armor/structure buff, then it'll be in a lot better situation than it currently is because it will be able to *sometimes* make it out of a bad cornering into unaccounted 200+ tons which is either a death sentence or a missing arm/leg currently.

Good call on the acceleration rates--it will also really help when you land and go full "W" but it seems to take forever to get to 89kph and even fractions of a second matter when someone is flinging PPCs/Gauss at the poor guy.

Besides using the jump jets I really like to corner peek just to expose one arm for the 6 laser salvo so any kind of accel/decel buff will help that too.

Edited by Kain Thul, 09 March 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I'd say pretty much the lack of speed really makes it ineffective, it's a little beast in close range with SPLs & SLs. It just lacks the ability to build for playing a mix of ranges, 2LLs and you're giving up a lot of close range potential for weapon and it's too slow to be a good hit and run brawler, I'm giving up on the model design as a change due the unlikely possibility of that changing.


They need to pick a route for it, one or the other:
a. Having Endo would allow it to mix range with brawling quite well

b. Having speed would let it brawl extremely well



It's a good brawler when you can sit and wait for enemies to get within 200M, dish out those SPLs and SLs with so good heat efficiency.

Edited by shad0w4life, 09 March 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Soy]

shad0w4life, on 09 March 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

It's a good brawler when you can sit and wait for enemies to get within 200M, dish out those SPLs and SLs with so good heat efficiency.

Definitely the range issue with a build like this one in particular means you have to play patiently unlike any other type of mech, except maybe what, a Locust? I definitely struggled for a couple weeks with not only getting comfortable being up close with such a weapon, but also developing patience for the engagement to start and then finally expose myself.

Not being seen for half a round is actually sometimes challenging, cuz you're also trying to be as close as possible for when it does finally 'open up' so you don't have to close 500m or something silly like that.

I think this point though goes beyond Nova and into any sort of close-range ninja mech or glass cannon.