625 replies to this topic

[Hayato1983]

No like, expected a bit more, jut a tid bit. Waiting for futurequirks to the poor adder and summoner.

[Angry Kylo Ren]

These quirks just show PGI has no idea what it's doing and is just giving out **** at random.

Everyone knows what iterative means, don't treat us like idiots.

But obviously you want to iterate on things which have a CHANCE to be useful. There's absolutely 0 purpose to most of these quirks and they clearly don't solve any of the things that make these mechs suck.

It's just a joke. No wonder they waited til after the early adopter phase for clan wave 3 came out to announce this. If they had shown how little they give a crap about clan pilots earlier, there's no way I would have dropped cash on the wave 3 pack.

ANd before anyone says anything, it's not about being OP. I support bringing the TBR and SCR back in-line a little bit. BUT these mechs are clearly inferior and need a bit of a boost that they really didn't get. AGAIN.

First it was the stupid release of the 'new PAY ME money variants' which had the chance to be really cool and help these mechs - but PGI went and chose almost all the useless variants for the BAD mechs, and chose the good variants for the GOOD mechs...

Now this.

It's obvious they are not putting much thought into clan mechs at the moment and just rushing stuff out to appease us.

Take faction camo for example - clan faction camo is still colour locked. IS resistance pack comes out, all colours can be changed.

I know where PGI butters their bread, and it's on the IS side - the population is MUCH MUCH larger than clan. It's fine. But doesn't excuse the haphazard treatment.

[Summon3r]

Summoner is even worse then before now... take that 7.5% erppc velocity from the prime RA and change to -7.5% energy heat gen on the D arms... atleast leave the Prime its poor 10% energy and ballistic cooldowns per arm.

Gargoyle lol is lol

with all this BS going on i sometimes wonder if PGI is seeing how far they can push the community before there is no community, is this like a strange MMO social experiment?

Edited by Summon3r, 17 March 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[ZeroX908]

What are your opinions on if maybe the clans obtained no quirks what so ever, but were instead provided with their canon abilities, i.e. no damage reduction from lrms at close range, 15 precision dmg from cerppc, the ability to swap engines, no ac jamming, and a reduced penalty from ghost heat, in turn the Warhawk and Nova Primes can be effectively used? The I.S. mechs can keep their quirks, the clans don't really need any.

Edited by ZeroX908, 17 March 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[CHH Badkarma]

Ditch the quirks pgi. Its a mess on both sides that just keeps getting worse. Remember the old saying, "keep it simple" ? Go with drop numbers adjustments or you will be spinning your wheels with quirks for the rest of this games life. I myself would rather see the resouces being used to make up and adjust quirks be used on something else.

Come on pgi, 8v12 or 10v12. Its not that hard to do. I would say 10v16 but I dont know if they can swing that

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 17 March 2015 - 01:48 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

I find it amazing the amount of complaints from Clan players about the quirks they received, when Clan mechs don't really rate quirks at all.

Quirks were instituted to being Inner Sphere mechs into parity with Clan omnimechs, which have so many advantages that trying to equalize the two through other means would have meant instituting changes to the Clan technology that would have made those players set on playing them reject the entire idea.

Enforcing an absolute set of hardpoints for each model of mech, use of XL engines that would destroy the mech when one side is destroyed, reduction of weapons performances, increasing of weight and critical space requirements to comparable levels of Inner Sphere equipment all would have been needed, but implementing all of these would have caused an uproar among Clan players that would have made the sorts of complaints around the TDR-9S that got that mech nerfed to the ground seem tame. At the same time, altering the set properties of every piece of equipment in the game from those established in the original material would have necessitated a complete re-engineering of the construction and management system of mechs in the game.

So, in the attempt to maintain their claim that Clan tech and mechs would be 'different but not better than' Inner Sphere tech and mechs, we got the quirk system for the Inner Sphere mechs. However, the Clan players could only see that the other side was getting 'free' advantages, blind to the massive advantages that are built-in to all Clan mechs in the game, and demanded Clan mechs get some of their own.

Now, they are complaining that the quirks given to the mechs in the game that are already unbalanced vrs. their Inner Sphere counterparts (as proven by the +10 tons the Devs have been forced to give the Inner Sphere when facing Clan mechs -after- quirking) aren't enough. That's staggeringly arrogant, considering that the one time an Inner Sphere mech came close to the level of a Clan mech, the Clan playerbase pushed until that mech was nerfed below the ability to fight them on equal terms.

I say, fine. The Clans aren't content getting minor quirks on top of immunity XL engines, weapons that only cost a fraction of IS versions, Endosteel and Ferro-Fibrous Armor for half the cost of IS equivilants (and getting more from the FF to boot), longer ranges on their weapons systems, Targeting Computers that improve the vast majority of weapons for whatever tonnage the player wants to spend, player-customizable weapon hardpoints, LRMs capable of fighting below minimum ranges, and access to weapons systems the Inner Sphere does not have? Then the solution is simple.

Don't give the Clans any quirks at all, and turn a deaf ear to any more complaints about not having any. If the Clan playerbase doesn't have the maturity to see that adding advantages to the side of the game that already is advantaged in so many ways over the other is simply going to push things back to where quirks were needed in the first place, then they will never know 'different but not better than' means.

Especially when the Inner Sphere has been hit with a hard wall that stated quite clearly that any mech approaching the perfomance of un-quirked Clan mech is too powerful to be allowed to remain.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 March 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[PraetorGix]

ZeroX908, on 17 March 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

What are your opinions on if maybe the clans obtained no quirks what so ever, but were instead provided with their canon abilities, i.e. no damage reduction from lrms at close range, 15 precision dmg from cerppc, the ability to swap engines, no ac jamming, and a reduced penalty from ghost heat, in turn the Warhawk and Nova Primes can be effectively used? The I.S. mechs can keep their quirks, the clans don't really need any.

This would be met with legions of IS babies threatening to ragequit. But I think would be a rather elegant and innovative solution. On a side note, everyone says Clan PPC does not do 15 dmg, but stats on smurfy says otherwise. Can anyone point me to the thread or announcement that shows this? thx.

Edited by Cmdr Hurrell, 17 March 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[PraetorGix]

Jakob Knight, on 17 March 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

blah blah blah.

You are a funny person. I like how you remember to the detail every advantage we have, but you conveniently forget the massive heat penalties, the difference in ghost heat (which, if the LL are any indication, will get even broader) the crappy AC's... And you also put in the same bag Ice ferrets Lynxes and Timber Wolves. Sure, after so cleverly or childishly omitting these details you seem like an illuminated savant come to teach us the truth... except you just sound funny. On the other hand, thank you for clarifying the PPC thing.

Edited by Cmdr Hurrell, 17 March 2015 - 02:00 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 17 March 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

This would be met with legions of IS babies threatening to ragequit. But I think would be a rather elegant and innovative solution. On a side note, everyone says Clan PPC does not do 15 dmg, but stats on smurfy says otherwise. Can anyone point me to the thread or announcement that shows this? thx.

The way Clan ERPPCs do damage is 10 to the location hit, and 2.5 to each location to the side of that location. So, it is true that they don't do 15 damage -to one location-, but they do, in fact, do 15 points of damage to the target hit. A hit to the same location from two CERPPCs would do 20 points to that location and 5 to each side torso, or the equivilant of an extra Medium laser hit to either side.

Some people like to discount the side damage because it isn't to the part they are hitting.

[Jakob Knight]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 17 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

You are a funny person. I like how you remember to the detail every advantage we have, but you conveniently forget the massive heat penalties, the difference in ghost heat (which, if the LL are any indication, will get even broader) the crappy AC's... And you also put in the same bag Ice ferrets Lynxes and Timber Wolves. Sure, after so cleverly or childishly omitting these details you seem like an illuminated savant come to teach us the truth... except you're just funny

The Clans have no more heat penalty for what their weapons do than the Inner Sphere, as I didn't include the greater damage the Clans receive from their weapons for that heat inclusion (which -you- conveniently forgot about). The difference in Ghost Heat is a direct result of the inability of the Inner Sphere weapons to match the standards set by Clan weapons, so again, this is another result of the massive advantages the Clan mechs represent over their Inner Sphere counterparts just by existing. You claim Clan AC's are 'crappy', yet plenty of Inner Sphere pilots have asked the Devs if -they- could have such weapons, so it's simply an opinion on your part. Some feel the increased ability to adjust your fire during the weapon's action and the multiple shocks of being hit are advantages, not disadvantages as you seem to think, so it's all a matter of viewpoint. Finally, I as much put Lynx's and Timberwolves together as I did Locust's and Orions. Do you want to compare a Timberwolf to an Orion to support your point? I think not.

Next time you want to illustrate childishness and humor, post to the forums again. You obviously are the height of a fool.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 March 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Jakob Knight, on 17 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

The way Clan ERPPCs do damage is 10 to the location hit, and 2.5 to each location to the side of that location. So, it is true that they don't do 15 damage -to one location-, but they do, in fact, do 15 points of damage to the target hit. A hit to the same location from two CERPPCs would do 20 points to that location and 5 to each side torso, or the equivilant of an extra Medium laser hit to either side.

Some people like to discount the side damage because it isn't to the part they are hitting.

It is largely useless, superfluous damage is why. First, there are often issues with the "splash" registering at all. Also, if you hit some locations you only get half of your splash damage. Lastly, if I am trying rip through someone's open ST what function is the splash damage to their CT and arm doing? Nothing but padding your stats.

Jakob Knight, on 17 March 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

The Clans have no more penalty than the Inner Sphere, as I didn't include the greater damage the Clans receive from their weapons for that heat inclusion (which -you- conveniently forgot about). The difference in Ghost Heat is a direct result of the inability of the Inner Sphere weapons to match the standards set by Clan weapons, so again, this is another result of the massive advantages the Clan mechs represent over their Inner Sphere counterparts just by existing. You claim Clan AC's are 'crappy', yet plenty of Inner Sphere pilots have asked the Devs if -they- could have such weapons, so it's simply an opinion on your part. Some feel the increased ability to adjust your fire during the weapon's action and the multiple shocks of being hit are advantages, not disadvantages as you seem to think, so it's all a matter of viewpoint. Finally, I as much put Lynx's and Timberwolves together as I did Locust's and Orions. Do you want to compare a Timberwolf to an Orion to support your point? I think not.

Next time you want to illustrate childishness and humor, post to the forums again. You obviously are the height of a fool.

The opinion on the C-UACs being trash is one shared by pretty much anyone that knows anything about this game. You might have some random weirdo or two that thinks LRM boats are valid 'mechs make a post about C-UACs looking good or whatever but if you think C-UACs are generally good weapons to put it in Russ terms "you are on an island".

[Navid A1]

Considering that patches happen every 2 weeks and the new iterative approach of changing in "small doses" one can conclude that it will take a year for the adder or ferret to be remotely useful.

PGI... if you want to do it in small doses and iterative... make changes that can create a d*mn effect. (1% 2% 4%... oh god)
Iterative algorithms don't work like that when you have countless input factors (human players here... not AIs). The error values you gonna get are so small that they will be almost negligible compared to other factors and can actually lead you away from the optimum point.

you know what?... you are actually seeing the effects right now... read the forums... that is the effect you should be looking for... you know... from people who actually play mwo.

[Yokaiko]

Jakob Knight, on 17 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

The way Clan ERPPCs do damage is 10 to the location hit, and 2.5 to each location to the side of that location. So, it is true that they don't do 15 damage -to one location-, but they do, in fact, do 15 points of damage to the target hit. A hit to the same location from two CERPPCs would do 20 points to that location and 5 to each side torso, or the equivilant of an extra Medium laser hit to either side.

Some people like to discount the side damage because it isn't to the part they are hitting.

You also don't get that damage is you hit an arm or leg, or a ST with the arm gone, or a number of other combinations, it vanishes into the aether.

......that is if the PPCs hit at all with the ht reg.

[InspectorG]

Wish me luck, kids.

Im climbing into my Summoner for the 1st time in a while and im bracing myself for the suck...

If im not back by morning, call the President.

[Alienized]

actually there are quite some people that made good use of the myst lynx or ice ferret all the time without quirks.
ye, maybe PGI should listen to THEM alot more.

[Jakob Knight]

Kain Thul, on 17 March 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

It is largely useless, superfluous damage is why. First, there are often issues with the "splash" registering at all. Also, if you hit some locations you only get half of your splash damage. Lastly, if I am trying rip through someone's open ST what function is the splash damage to their CT and arm doing? Nothing but padding your stats.



The opinion on the C-UACs being trash is one shared by pretty much anyone that knows anything about this game. You might have some random weirdo or two that thinks LRM boats are valid 'mechs make a post about C-UACs looking good or whatever but if you think C-UACs are generally good weapons to put it in Russ terms "you are on an island".

Your comment about hit registration on the splash damage of the CERPPC can be applied to -any- weapon damage, as there are incidents of IS AC/20s not registering hits -at all-. The fact is that the CERPPC -does- the extra damage, and that extra damage -does- matter when you miss the open area you are aiming at and still do damage to it, unlike the IS ERPPC, which would be a complete non-damage to that location. As I said, some people discount the side damage because all they see is pinpoint damage.

As to your comment on C-ACs', I like to think I know something about this game, having played it continuously since Beta, on both sides (hmm...but apparently, because I happen to think C-ACs have some good uses, that means I can't possibly know -anything- about the game, eh?). I also happen to think there are advantages and disadvantages to every weapon, and how you use them determines if they are effective on not. If that means you think I am 'on an island', then so be it. Remember, however, that Russ is still eating his words on that phrase, and you should think twice about trying to follow his lead.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 March 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Jakob Knight, on 17 March 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

I say, fine. The Clans aren't content getting minor quirks on top of immunity XL engines, weapons that only cost a fraction of IS versions, Endosteel and Ferro-Fibrous Armor for half the cost of IS equivilants (and getting more from the FF to boot), longer ranges on their weapons systems, Targeting Computers that improve the vast majority of weapons for whatever tonnage the player wants to spend, player-customizable weapon hardpoints, LRMs capable of fighting below minimum ranges, and access to weapons systems the Inner Sphere does not have? Then the solution is simple.

Longer ranges barely and that's with the 750M erLL bug included in me saying that, if it's fixed. IS will have massive range boost. 740M is cERLL vs 750M IS ERLL IS does 27 dmg for 24 heat (quirked 20% puts it 19.6 and erll from 675 to 750M hard cap) and clan does 22 dmg for 20 heat with a much longer burn time when compared to quirked IS mech. How is that an advantage for clans?

Those customizable hardpoints come with extreme conditions set in stone. want to put and ultra AC20 in your side torso? tough you can't because there's fixed hardpoints there, where an IS mech could.

LRMs are a joke, and are even more of a joke until close to 180M, it's a very exponential scale for damage. Plus if you bring mass LRMs to CW, you're crippling your team.

a FEW clan mechs excel at putting a lot of weapons in to a lot of hardpoints and unleashing a high damage alpha strike. Which won't kill most mechs, and put you on the cusp of overheating. That's the clan advantage is large alphas of spread damage.

If you are just talking balance around a solo queue "Play now" then stop talking about balance like you know it all. If they halved ammo then it might be a little more representative of how CW is played, but frankly they should just be worrying about making CW more inclusive and get everyone in there playing and contribution on a global scale.

4 v 4 mode for scout missions would be great but you can't put 4 IS light mechs against 4 clan lights, or let me guess, you think that is perfectly fair right? Cause clan light mechs are vastly OP as per your post.

Edited by shad0w4life, 17 March 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Loren Ward]

Lol, what a joke. Summoner got nerfed when pgi thought they were buffing it. 2-4% quirks.. That is nothing. The numbers these percentages are being applied to are so tiny to begin with they may as well not exist.

5% reduction in overheat damage? Lol lol.

Haven't played since December, nothing about these changes makes me interested in playing again.

[Jakob Knight]

shad0w4life, on 17 March 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Longer ranges barely and that's with the 750M erLL bug included in me saying that, if it's fixed. IS will have massive range boost. 740M is cERLL vs 750M IS ERLL IS does 27 dmg for 24 heat (non quirked 20% puts it 19.6) and clan does 22 dmg for 20 heat with a much longer burn time when compared to quirked IS mech.

Those customizable hardpoints come with extreme conditions set in stone. want to put and ultra AC20 in your side torso? tough you can't because there's fixed hardpoints there, where an IS mech could.

LRMs are a joke, and are even more of a joke until close to 180M, it's a very exponential scale for damage. Plus if you bring mass LRMs to CW, you're crippling your team.

If you are just talking balance around a solo queue "Play now" then stop talking about balance. If they halved ammo then it might be a little more representative of how CW is played, but frankly they should just be worrying about making CW more inclusive and get everyone in there playing and contribution on a global scale.

4 v 4 mode for scout missions would be great but you can't put 4 IS light mechs against 4 clan lights, or let me guess, you think that is perfectly fair right? Cause clan light mechs are vastly OP as per your post.

So, you are saying -any- Inner Sphere mech mounting an ERLL will outrange -any- Clan mech mounting a C-ERLL? That's news to me. Or, are you only using one weapon on a single variant of a single mech as comparison to an entire baseline of other mechs? In otherwords, the maximum possible for the Inner Sphere compared to the maximum possible for the Clans? And, are you also taking into account -all- the other advantages the Clan mech brings to the fight when stating the -Clan- mech is the one at a disadvantage in overall comparison?

As to the AC/20 example, you act like you are not getting any benefits to the equipment in the spaces occupied. Do the same thing with an Inner Sphere mech and see if you get a better solution (you won't...IS mechs are in an even harder spot with criticals for the same equipment). Yes, the Inner Sphere mech could sacrifice the Jump Jets, Endosteel, Ferrofibrous, or Medium Lasers that occupy the same slot on an equivilant mech, but does that result in a mech with the same capabilities for no cost, or does the Inner Sphere mech now fall further behind because it -doesn't- have what the Clan mech receives from the start and will always have?

I've seen plenty of posts claiming LRMs are still overpowered, so it seems the claim they are a joke is a matter of perspective. If anything, your claim that they aren't effective until about 180m only heightens the fact that the Clans have the advantage here as well, as IS LRMs become -completely- useless at this range while Clan LRMs remain viable to about half that distance.

And, no. They shouldn't be working to make CW more inclusive when anyone, from a starting player to the longest veteran of the game is completely free to play it and their performance is entirely in their own hands. CW is meant to be 'hard core' mode, and intrinsically is not for everyone. Those who want easier, quicker, or less-structured games will never be satisfied in a game mode that is intended to satisfy those who want harder, longer, and more-structured games. Trying to pursue that course is an effort in futility. Let those who want to play CW play CW, and those who want to play Public play Public without trying to force one on the other by making one conform to the standards of the other.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 March 2015 - 02:33 PM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Jakob Knight, on 17 March 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

So, you are saying -any- Inner Sphere mech mounting an ERLL will outrange -any- Clan mech mounting a C-ERLL? That's news to me. Or, are you only using one weapon on a single variant of a single mech as comparison to an entire baseline of other mechs? In otherwords, the maximum possible for the Inner Sphere compared to the maximum possible for the Clans? And, are you also taking into account -all- the other advantages the Clan mech brings to the fight when stating the -Clan- mech is the one at a disadvantage in overall comparison?

And, no. They shouldn't be working to make CW more inclusive when anyone, from a starting player to the longest veteran of the game is completely free to play it and their performance is entirely in their own hands. CW is meant to be 'hard core' mode, and intrinsically is not for everyone. Those who want easier, quicker, or less-structured games will never be satisfied in a game mode that is intended to satisfy those who want harder, longer, and more-structured games. Trying to pursue that course is an effort in futility. Let those who want to play CW play CW, and those who want to play Public play Public without trying to force one on the other by making one conform to the standards of the other.

What kind of asinine argument is that, we're now comparing all mechs across the board for balance? There's multiple IS mechs than can hit the 750M cap for lasers. Lets compare light mechs, clans do not have one that goes over 125kph that's an advantage hey?

Stop trolling sheesh, either act like an adult or go have a shower and take care of your anger on yourself.


From what I've noticed every single player that's saying clans and IS are quite similar are all CW players talking about a game mode where sustained damage and PPFLD are very important, IS hands down destroys clans for PPFLD. In the time it takes to fire off 2 salvos of laser vomit some builds can drop 45PPFLD twice, dragon does 20 damage per second etc etc.


12 v 12 clans reign supreme for most mechs due to the ability to boat massive damage for a short range encounter and people see "ALIVE" even if it means that the mech has no weapons that it must be OP since they didn't die. What's funny is I haven't seen any crazy end game scores in 12 v 12 lately it's pretty spread out.

Edited by shad0w4life, 17 March 2015 - 02:50 PM.